One revolver better than another

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I only have two revolvers (other rifles and automatic's) but these two revolvers' both .357 are different as day and night. My GP-100 6" can eat about anything and never lead. Hot loads, puff loads, it doesn't seem to matter. My other revolver is a SP-101 3" and it has been a pain since I first got it. It was sent back to Ruger when it was new and they replaced the crane, cylinder and some trigger assembly parts. It went to their testing range before it was sent back and was rejected by them and reworked again. After a month of being gone, it was returned and functions just fine with J bullets but you have to be very careful of what kind of lead boolits go down the barrel. I know this is not unique but it is a pain at times. The BC gap is .007, end shake is in tolerance, timing is right, cylinders are all .358, no restriction where the barrel is screwed on. It is just a time consuming revolver to make a load for. I end up getting loads to work for it but it is just so different from my GP-100 which shot great from the box and doesn't seem to want to lead for any reason. I guess the SP will keep me busy learning stuff as time goes by. It is kind of a mission of mine to get it to work like I want it to. There is an answer, I just have to find it.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Dang it! I bet I put this in the wrong section. My bad.

[jmort]

I had an SP 101 3" in .357 but for me it is too heavy at 27 ounces for its size and too light for me to shoot .357s comfortably. The GP100 for me is the perfect .357. For smaller .357 I now have LCR which is perfect, still too light for full power .357 but at 17 ounces it is light and absorbs recoil very well.

[Dean D.]

No worries Charlie, I moved it for ya. Sorry I can't help you on the revolver issues as I own neither model.

[cbrick]

Charlie, if we put some heads together maybe we could come up with a solution or least a reason.

From the sound of your post you have found boolit loads that either didn't lead or weren't accurate. Were accurate but leaded? No leading but wasn't accurate? Hard to figure a cure when we don't know the problem.

Rick

[Charlie Two Tracks]

148 gr. wad cutters don't lead very much with 3 grains of B.E. but the minimal leading occurs if I increase the load or not. We the MP 359-125 I get a ring of lead no matter what I do. Maybe the boolit is too short for my revolver. I can insert a plain boolit into the forcing cone and be able to barley close the cylinder without it touching. I can go this on the GP100 also. If I use 3 grains of B.E. behind this boolit, it will lead the SP and not the GP. The SP-101 is very finicky and the GP-100 could care less. I do not have a range rod to see if the cylinder is lining up exactly but if I put a bright light behind the closed cylinder and look down the barrel, it seems to be lined up ok. The 125 gr loads are accurate but leave a ring of lead around the forcing cone on the SP-101. I am trying to get a very light load for my wife to shoot and enjoy. The 148 gr. WC's that I've had her shoot work ok but her hand starts to hurt after 20-30 rds. I'd like her to be able to shoot longer and more often. I want to get her used to the SP-101 because it would be the gun she would use in the event of trouble. At home, I have 158 gr. jacketed bullets in it for such an occasion. I know the recoil would be much more but I believe that adrenalin would take care of that. My old 12 ga. with deer slugs really kicks but I have never felt the recoil when a deer was in its sights.

[44man]

Why not try harder wad cutters? Soft boolits can slump in the gap and cone and be forced back.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I can try harder alloy for the wad cutters but it's the 125 grain boolit I'm trying to get to work. I'm going to load some up with 4 grains of Unique and see if that works. When I get to the range that's 1/2 hr. away it's a real hassle when your first load leads up. It is only a 4 station range but that's all I've got around here. I don't think the guys waiting would like me to clean the revolver at one of the stations but that's what I get for living in Illinois. It's just the difference in revolvers. I almost believe that I could load a boolit backwards in the GP and not have troubles.

[44man]

I can try harder alloy for the wad cutters but it's the 125 grain boolit I'm trying to get to work. I'm going to load some up with 4 grains of Unique and see if that works. When I get to the range that's 1/2 hr. away it's a real hassle when your first load leads up. It is only a 4 station range but that's all I've got around here. I don't think the guys waiting would like me to clean the revolver at one of the stations but that's what I get for living in Illinois. It's just the difference in revolvers. I almost believe that I could load a boolit backwards in the GP and not have troubles.
Don't you hate driving just to try stuff? That puts a crimp into testing.
I understand how hard it is.
Yes, some guns need different and to not see a thing until you get to the range would drive me nuts.

[coverbw]

Is the sp101 a newer one? I bought a sp101 in 327 fed when they first came out and its been a great gun. Same with my GP100. I said to myself "if only they made sp101 357 with a 4" barrel and adjustable sights..." When Ruger brought out the 4 incher I put my money where my mouth is and bought one. Ruger is apparently pumping out guns faster as I noticed the "finishing touches" on the new sp101 are much rougher. The bore was rougher than a corncob and the crown looked like is was done with a chisel. I shot some j-words through it and the barrel looked copper coated. I put a new crown on it and fire lapped the barrel. The gun is now one of my best shooters. Maybe my gun was just an oddball. I don't want to be one of the knee-jerk guys for fire lapping, but wondered the condition of the bore on your gun...?

[Charlie Two Tracks]

The 101 was bought about 4 years ago. I only have the leading around the forcing cone with the 125 grain boolits.

[sagamore-one]

I had very similar issues a number of years ago with two Single sixes in 45acp/45 Colt. One gun would shoot anything without concern. The other leaded with everything. I sent the offender back twice, even talked to Mr Bill himself and was told it was "in tolerance".
Found out the barrel had machine chatter marks the entire length , ended up fire lapping the bore ... several times to get leading slowed down. It never did go away.
May not be your problem , but it may be worth a look .

[rockshooter]

I'd try a little more Unique with the 125 gr load- thats pretty much a minimum load and you might get better obturation with a faster load. Apart from leading, I've run into position-sensitivity with light loads of Unique and 125gr cast bullets.
Loren

[runfiverun]

i have a black hawk in 41 mag that was giving me many of the same symptoms you describe here.
i could go full house jaxketed in it or use the lyman 410 swc gas check boolit without the gas check at about 700 fps.
and that was allllll it would do.
i finally got a full wadcutter mold in the 230 gr weight range for my 41 ruger hunter model and tried them in that black hawk.
i'm thinking the longer boolit was allowing me to get across the cylinder gap and pull everything into better alignment.
as i have run the light to the pretty heavy with titegroup and unique with no more problems.
i mainly shoot that wadcutter now in both guns with 8.5 grs of unique and share ammo i'm a happy camper.
you might want to try a 358091 [button nosed wadcutter] or the 358477 [semi wadcutter but with good bearing length] and see what they do for you.
you might even be able to try them in some 38 cases as a double check.

[Forrest r]

It sounds like a couple of things going on at the same time. I'd get rid of the 7/1000th end shake & see what happens 1st.

I've seen this before in other revolvers, everything is in spec but everything is at the far end of the specs. The end shake is maxed, the cylinder/bbl allignment is at max & the cylinder side play is at max. That makes for a bad combonation. The bullet gets fired, the stronger the load the more side play happens with the cylinder twisting (it's that action/reaction thing). As the cylinder twists the extra long bbl/cylinder gap allows the bullet to hit further off center (bbl) shaving lead on the edge of the forcing cone. If the bbl/cylinder allignment is off by a couple of 1000ths it will really magnify any other problems.

Good luck

[Charlie Two Tracks]

It is supposed to be above freezing today so I will head to the range and see what happens. I have four different loads to try and I will bring my cleaning equipment along so I can have a clean revolver to check each load. If I have to get the revolver worked on again, I guess it will have to wait for a bit.

[rintinglen]

148 gr. wad cutters don't lead very much with 3 grains of B.E. but the minimal leading occurs if I increase the load or not. We the MP 359-125 I get a ring of lead no matter what I do. Maybe the boolit is too short for my revolver. I can insert a plain boolit into the forcing cone and be able to barley close the cylinder without it touching. I can go this on the GP100 also. If I use 3 grains of B.E. behind this boolit, it will lead the SP and not the GP. The SP-101 is very finicky and the GP-100 could care less. I do not have a range rod to see if the cylinder is lining up exactly but if I put a bright light behind the closed cylinder and look down the barrel, it seems to be lined up ok. The 125 gr loads are accurate but leave a ring of lead around the forcing cone on the SP-101. I am trying to get a very light load for my wife to shoot and enjoy. The 148 gr. WC's that I've had her shoot work ok but her hand starts to hurt after 20-30 rds. I'd like her to be able to shoot longer and more often. I want to get her used to the SP-101 because it would be the gun she would use in the event of trouble. At home, I have 158 gr. jacketed bullets in it for such an occasion. I know the recoil would be much more but I believe that adrenalin would take care of that. My old 12 ga. with deer slugs really kicks but I have never felt the recoil when a deer was in its sights.

There is your leading answer. That short for caliber boolit is allowing gas to jet past the base as it transitions the barrel cylinder gap. Coupled with a typical Ruger forcing cone, I supect that that boolit is undergoing flame cutting and is undersized for that barrel. Try sizing to .359 and see if it helps. /.?If not, I'd be reading up on fire lapping and considering having the barrel set back a turn and the forcing cone recut.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I have the boolits sized to .360 and with bullseye it is not pretty. Today I went out to the range and used 4 grains of Unique behind them. It was much better. There was just a little leading on one groove. It may have been an undersized boolit. I don't know. After I had fired 15 rounds, I inspected the forcing cone and there was no lead ring around it. I shot 5 rounds with the 3 grains of bullseye and the ring appeared. I'm going to keep trying to use this boolit because I have a good mold for it. Maybe a different powder will help or a different alloy. You guys are coming up with some good ideas. I'm going to try all I can before it goes to a shop.