Lookie what I found....

[P.K.]

:shock:

The only thing that makes sense to me is that it was fired from an old 30-40 Krag. Thoughts?


57459



57460

[swheeler]

Looks like a fired 303 british to me, what am I missing?

[nhrifle]

I was thinking the same thing. I remember my Krag having a longer neck and a steeper shoulder.

[P.K.]

The shoulder is completely bulged/ expanded. No taper. Yes it's a .303 and I'll mic some measuments when I get home later. The pic was snapped with my cell I'll try it with the camera so the bulge in the base can be seen.

57465
Never had a .303 or any experiance with one, but looking at the data (scratchin' the noggin')...

57466

Dunno, maybe a senior moment on my part.

[melter68]

303 great rifle, get one if you can-nice pic too.

[tgator]

Looks like Ackley Improved.



Tim

[dnepr]

.303 Epps ?

[zuke]

303 fired out of a No4 Mk1 wartime chamber.
Or fired out of a "modified" Ross Rifle.

[nhrifle]

Thats how the cases look when ejected from my rifle, No. 4 MkI

[TNsailorman]

Yes, looks like a .303 Epps to me(but I'm going on memory here). Epps improved cartridges just like or similiar to Ackley. I think I remember Epps as being Canadian but not sure about that. Memory getting fuzzy these days. I saw several Epps improved rifles in the late 50's and early 60's but haven't seen one in years now. my experience, james

I just got off the youtube site and yes, the Ellwood Epps store & gunsmith shop is located in Ontario, the the town of Orillio.

[MtGun44]

Looks pretty much like any .303 fired in any of my old Enfields. Are you
certain it was fired in a Krag? Maybe a junked barrel rebored to .303 Brit?

Bill

[P.K.]

Looks pretty much like any .303 fired in any of my old Enfields. Are you
certain it was fired in a Krag? Maybe a junked barrel rebored to .303 Brit?

Bill

Biil,

I wasn't there when it was fired but I have never seen a case that has a taper bulged to the neck like that. There is a slight bulge about .02 around the body about a .25 inch up from the base and you can just make out the smuge from chamber contact in the shot taken on my manual. At your mention of a reamed bore I wouldn't put anything past some of the "whiz-kids" around here. ;-)

The Measurments according to Hornady are: .303 Brit.
Base: .455
At Shoulder: .401
At Neck: .340
Mouth: .348

My Case:
Base: .455
1/4 up @bulge: .461
"Shoulder": .411
Neck: .349
Mouth: .320

Now again, no experiance with the .303 but it could be one of the ones mentioned but I am leaning to the reamed chamber.
The published data shows a taper of .054 from base to shoulder, this case mic's out to a more shallow taper of .050, and it can't be seen in the pic's but there is a ring cut into the base of the neck just infront of the bulged shoulder, another possible indicator to a sloppy reaming out.

Thanks Bill!

And thanks for the input!

[swheeler]

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg234/kmw3291/303brit.jpg

PK; some of the chambers are quite large

loaded round
base-.452
shoulder-.396
neck- base .338,crimp .324
fired
base-.452- @ ex ring .457
shoulder-.408
neck-base .341- mouth .340-ID.316

with calipers I get from base cartridge to start of neck, unfired 1.885, fired 1.915, shoulder is moving forward approx .030" on firing

edit- this case only has .049 taper

[P.K.]

Gotcha, thanks wheeler!

[swheeler]

You can't see it in my cell phone picture , but the shoulder has the "Weatherbyesque" radius look just like your close up.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Would not be surprising to find some type of "Improved" chamber brass about. I think every chambering older than 20 years gets altered in some way for whatever reason. Some of those alterations actually worked well.
Mike in ILL

[BruceB]

This appears to be a very normal result of firing a round in an "issue" .303 service rifle.

The .303 Epps is VERY sharp-sharp-shouldered and has very little body taper..... much like an Ackley Improved round. Do a Google search for ".303 Epps"., and several photos will come up to illustrate the cartridge.

I've seen fired .303 cases on which the shoulder has moved forward as much as 3/16"!

Such results have led me to doing neck-sizing for my four .303s in a .308 Winchester sizing die. The shoulder is just "touched" by the die sufficiently to allow easy closing of the rifle bolt, and the remainder of the case from shoulder back is unchanged. The .303 expander assembly is used in the .308 die (all dies of same-manufacture - RCBS).

We must remember that the .303 headspaces on the RIM, and hence the shape of the chamber itself doesn't really matter for one-time firing (i.e.: combat). Handloading the brass is a different matter, of course.

[zuke]

303 EPP's on the left, standard 303 brit on the right.

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy356/zuke_bucket/DSCF2409.jpg

[BruceB]

Perfect illustration, and thanks very much.

I note your location, and I even know where it is! As a youngster, my family lived for a while in Schumacher....Dad commuted to Matheson every day to work at the asbestos mine.

I'll bet that it's nice and cool in your town, as well as Hearst, Kapuskasing etc....like forty below zero? It's 8 below (F) here in northern NV today, so don't feel too badly.

[MtGun44]

What Bruce said! .303 chamber dimensions are all over the map, and for military purposes, one time use
of the brass with rim for headspacing, pretty nearly irrelevant. I have examples that move the shoulder forward
over 1/16" by eyeball "measurement", have noted it and not currently reloading .303 much, but my plan is to
neck size and sort brass for each rifle since the chambers are so different.

If you'd asked a WW2 Tommy if he wanted a rifle now that would shoot but might not be the easiest on brass or a
really nice target rifle in a week or month, and I think you'll know the answer. The rimmed case makes the
chamber shape nearly optional as long as the boolit is lined up with the bore and the brass can stretch far
enough without rupturing - once.

We are spoiled by modern manufacturing with extremely tight tolerances almost 'for free' - meaning a .001 tolerance
is not any or much more expensive or time consuming to hold than a .025 tolerance. That was NOT the case in WW2.


Bill

[Dutchman]

.303 Epps Improved in center.

Left: .303 Kynoch marked "Lewis". Wooden tip blank.

Right: MkVII


http://images46.fotki.com/v400/photos/2/28344/3886627/c022-vi.jpg

[zuke]

Perfect illustration, and thanks very much.

I note your location, and I even know where it is! As a youngster, my family lived for a while in Schumacher....Dad commuted to Matheson every day to work at the asbestos mine.

I'll bet that it's nice and cool in your town, as well as Hearst, Kapuskasing etc....like forty below zero? It's 8 below (F) here in northern NV today, so don't feel too badly.

It's -18C right now was -30 a couple day's ago with the windchill at -38. Might be going ice fishing with some friend's today,if they feel up to it.

Here's a couple local's ice fishing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Sc0TytlNDBg