hollow pointing lee 230 grain blackout boolit

[wwboolitmaker]

I have been casting a few boolits from this mold with nice results but im wanting to hollow point it. I have read the hollow pointing sticky which was awesome info and I think I can do it to my mold. My question is what size pin should I use and how deep? I am wanting to shoot this sub sonic and suppressed. I am wanting good penetration and some expansion to. What do you guys recommend?

[CaptLink]

The hollow point will not help expansion at subsonic speeds.
Subsonic's do damage through penetration and tumbling heavy long bullets penetrate and tumble well.
While not cast my 300/221 240SMK bullets have the qualities you are looking for at subsonic speeds

[wwboolitmaker]

If your jacketed bullets expand then it don't make sense why my cast won't. Is my thinking off? To my understanding hollow pointing lead boolits is a good way to get expansion at slower speeds.

[captaint]

While I'm no expert in the expansion game, I'm thinking a softer alloy would be necessary for expansion at low velocities. Just the HP alone won't do it. The boolits may well be more accurate with the HP. At low vel's, a big wide meplat might do the "damage" trick and penetration should be good also. Mike

[CaptLink]

My jacketed bullets don't expand at all they tumble after penetration.Pure lead bullets don't expand at subsonic velocities you need more speed for anything you may call expansion even with a hollow point.I agree with a large metplate a flat nose helps penetration and tissue destruction.Your standard 230gr cast will work well hard or soft with no expansion.I have the same mold coming in a few days I would use a deep wide tapered pin at 1500fps to ensure high expansion rates.

[wwboolitmaker]

What could I shoot these hollow points into I just cast to check and see if I get any expansion?

[Willbird]

What could I shoot these hollow points into I just cast to check and see if I get any expansion?Water tends I think to show more expansion than other mediums...but it is always on hand. I know they are not cast bullets but I do recall seeing some brass machined bullets with saw cut hollow pointed bullets made to expand subsonic. I guess the brass was cast into rod than machined into bullets hehe.

[Moonie]

Pure lead bullets don't expand at subsonic velocities you need more speed for anything you may call expansion even with a hollow point

Your pure lead boolits are alot harder than mine...

[wwboolitmaker]

I have some solid copper bullets from Lehigh defense that has a hole machined in the center and four cuts down the sides 2/3 the way down....they expand beautifully but they are three dollars a piece!! Just trying something and seeing how it works. If it don't... owell

[Willbird]

I have some solid copper bullets from Lehigh defense that has a hole machined in the center and four cuts down the sides 2/3 the way down....they expand beautifully but they are three dollars a piece!! Just trying something and seeing how it works. If it don't... owellI I definitely see the wisdom in that :-).

[HARRYMPOPE]

a soft hollow point will expand at subsonic velocity if soft enough.my 32 auto @ 750 expands as does my 45 cals at the same speeds.

[CaptLink]

Not many of us have ballistic gelatin but there's always room for jello:-D.
You can try water but the results on game would be different.
I'll have my mold in today can you post a link to retrofitting HP pins.
These are Lehigh 308-500 .308 Subsonic Controlled Fracturing @ 65.00 per hundred.
57533

[2wheelDuke]

Not many of us have ballistic gelatin but there's always room for jello:-D.
You can try water but the results on game would be different.
I'll have my mold in today can you post a link to retrofitting HP pins.
These are Lehigh 308-500 .308 Subsonic Controlled Fracturing @ 65.00 per hundred.
57533

Now those look incredible. I'm tempted to buy some just beacuse they look so cool.

I haven't thought about hollowpointing subsonic .300. If guys get HP .45acp cast to expand, I'm sure you can a subsonic cast .30 to expand. I just think that you may need to run a very soft alloy, and that may not survive the feed ramps very well.

[wwboolitmaker]

They will survive the feed ramp. I cast some last night and chambered it several times in my ar. It doesnt deform at all. I am still working on my hp pin tho.

[wwboolitmaker]

This is the perfectly expanded Lehigh maximum expansion
http://s2.postimage.org/pwe5dfilx/bullet2.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/pwe5dfilx/)


This is my real world Lehigh 200 grain ME bullet. I believe it only partially opened because the bullet struck the deers shoulder at a quatering to angle.
http://s9.postimage.org/phryppiob/bullet.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/phryppiob/)

[CaptLink]

I don't claim to be a expert but reliable expansion is 100%. Many bullet manufactures use AL alloys in .45acp and the light HP bullets are faster than ball ammo.I have seen explosive expansion above 1000fps in lead but nothing to write home about in subsonic.I think the Lehigh bullet is borderline porn8-)57556

[Willbird]

Well the 230 may not stay point forward long enough to expand :-). Maybe they need a hollow BASE so when they turn around and fly base first inside something THAT end expands :-). The pictured brass bullets look like they have another bullet seated inside them ??

[Blammer]

I'm thinking .1 would be a good size HP dia and I would go 1/2 the length of the nose.
If it doesn't expand (don't know why it wouldn't) it should cause it to tumble faster as the base is heavier than the nose for it's length.

[Piedmont]

I don't claim to be a expert but reliable expansion is 100%. Many bullet manufactures use AL alloys in .45acp and the light HP bullets are faster than ball ammo.I have seen explosive expansion above 1000fps in lead but nothing to write home about in subsonic.I think the Lehigh bullet is borderline porn8-)57556

OK. What "many manufacturers use aluminum alloys" in .45 hollowpoints? Do you know what subsonic means? Do you know what the speed of sound is? Obviously not. Ever heard of the .38 FBI load? How fast is it? Does it expand?

[CaptLink]

OK. What "many manufacturers use aluminum alloys" in .45 hollowpoints? Do you know what subsonic means? Do you know what the speed of sound is? Obviously not. Ever heard of the .38 FBI load? How fast is it? Does it expand?
My father carried that load and its history has made it greater than its actual performance many officers carved a x into them to make them more effective.Dad much prefers the WW "silver tip" bullet even if the jacket is aluminum.The 38 FBI load was a +p 158 lswc load rated at 950-1000fps. I prefer the 200 police positive load @ 850 being a standard pressure .38 special.Tissue destruction was depended on a large metplate in both loads.
Speed of sound in air is 1126fps at 68 degrees.Most factory subsonic loads are loaded @ 1050fps to allow for temp and altitude....as for subsonic I work as a professional gunsmith specializing in the manufacture of NFA weapons and suppressors for the past twenty years and don't get out much 35 years of hand-loading has kept me secluded too.Obviously there must be a gap in my education.

[r6487]

wwboolitmaker---have you looked at or tried the outlaw state 30cal 225 or 240 grainers---i am shooting 240 sierra BTHP and the NOE cast 247 (from group buys here)(with & without hollow points) and get little to no expansion (at 1065-1100 ft/sec with suppressor). the outlaw state and hawk bullets (up in new jersey) are made strictly for expansion in game. the outlaw state works well for us. have some 250 grains from Hawk but yet to try them out. On the lehighs are you inserting the 20 grain 17cal dogtowns in the front? we've looked at those but never purchased any.

[Elkins45]

My jacketed bullets don't expand at all they tumble after penetration.Pure lead bullets don't expand at subsonic velocities you need more speed for anything you may call expansion even with a hollow point.

My experiences with pure lead bullets is completely different than yours.

[turbo1889]

. . . Pure lead bullets don't expand at subsonic velocities you need more speed for anything you may call expansion even with a hollow point. . .

Okay then I must be nuts considering I've been able to get expansion on actual game targets not simulations (small game) at velocities as low as 500-fps (under half the speed of sound) using just soft lead alone not even with a hollow point in some bullet designs in some guns.

Part of the equation as to whether you get expansion or not is in the length of the boolit since the expansion is the result of the front of the boolit getting sandwiched between whatever the boolit is hitting and the moving mass of the rear of the boolit. If your boolit is all hollow point nose without leaving some good solid mass in the rear to be the other side of the sandwich to provide the pressure from the rear it can actually reduce the expansion.

In addition depending on what the target is and its exact composition higher velocities can actually reduce expansion in some cases and also reduce the hydraulic shock effect off of the nose of a flat point hard boolit. I've had loads where reducing the velocity made them take down game more effectively with a dramatic difference in vital tissue damage with substantially more damage with a larger wound channel at a lower velocity level.

[Blammer]

Can we get back to the OP's original question?

[wwboolitmaker]

Thanks Blammer...I tried to hollow point my mold. I wouldnt say success but wouldn't say a complete failure. It is very difficult to get the nose just right. I think I may open it up more to make a bigger metplate to allow a easier hollow pointing. It will probably only be around 200-205 grains when I get done but I don't mind that.

[turbo1889]

No direct experience with the 300 blackout, but I have done work with loading 200+ grain boolits at sub-sonic velocities in the 7.62x39 cartridge. My best results as far as expansion were with using a boolit made from 50:1 alloy (also known as pure + 2%) with a gas check and a cup point of 0.18" diameter (the former diameter of the flat meplat on the nose of that boolit) that was of normal cup point style where the depth was about the same as the diameter. That load was pushing about 800-850fps and expanded real nice up to about 50-cal on recovered yotees and a couple domestic dogs running loose and on my land harassing my stock. It’s not hard to get expansion with a boolit with a good length to diameter ratio even at low velocities if you use soft enough alloy and have either a good flat on the nose or a hollow point even down to some very low velocity levels depending on the target taking the hit.

As to the thread getting off topic; that does tend to happen when someone posts something that is so completely preposterous and outrageous that anyone with any true experience and half a brain knows it smells like a barn yard and then goes further in a second post later when the claim is challenged and claims superiority based on his claimed expertise usually claiming to be some sort of expert with so many years commercial or military or contractor experience or such. It’s a very old story for internet forums, especially gun forums. A crowd does tend to start to circle and smack down posts calling BS follow in short order. Usually I try to stay above the fray and not join in the pile on but this one was just too far out and a situation I have direct experience with to hold back temptation. None of us are perfect.

[NSP64]

I shoot HBWC's loaded backwards in my 38 spec at 700 fps and get great expansion.