what would you load w/no powder or primers?

[gunoil]

where we headed, with this country. With no primers or powder, what to load or shoot? Well, iam just sayin, few weeks ago, "no primers in this city". Had to wait til gun show, Was not to long! Ball and black powder somthing? huh!

Take another look at different kinds of ammo, maybe

[mdi]

There are some "survivalist" sites that have info on re-using/rebuilding fired primers. Black powder can be made at home. I've been casting bullets for 14 years. So, if it got real tight a smart reloader could make do. This is why I've accumulated a good stock of primers and powder. But, in a situation like that, I'd prolly go to a bow & arrow.

[44Vaquero]

Air cannons that shoot arrows! That's after I run out of everything else. Weapons can always be built by the resourceful!

[Ole]

Primers aren't going anywhere IMO. I have a nice stockpile of them just in case they do.

I could see a fairly significant increase in cost though because brass is a commodity and the more dollars they print, the more expensive it will get.

I also have a Benjamin Discovery in .22 caliber if things get really bad. :mrgreen:

[L Erie Caster]

The new air guns are quite impressive as far as accuracy/performance are concerned. I have 10,000 pellets that can take a lot of game should the need arise.

[Jim]

There are some "survivalist" sites that have info on re-using/rebuilding fired primers.....

There's a thread on that right here in the Stickies.

[Baja_Traveler]

I have a Discovery also - and it is as accurate and hard hitting as any .22lr I own. I'd also go back to one of the 4 bows I have hanging on the wall...

[RCE1]

I really like airguns and, in fact, spend more time shooting them than powder burners. Don't do any casting for them, however.

[Catshooter]

So you're saying you either couldn't afford to stock up or just didn't see it coming?

I hope you learned from it and stocked up as much as you could.


Cat

[I'll Make Mine]

As above, to the bitter end. I know how to make primer compound and rehab fired Boxer primers; I know (in theory -- might need a few batches for practice) multiple methods of making black powder. I have the tools to make molds for round balls or other bullets. I also have an air rifle; it's older than I am, but it's had the failed valve seals replaced and it's 100% functional, as long as I can get either 12 g bulbs or dry ice.

And if things really go to hell, I can make a bow or crossbow, an atl-atl, a sling (both the elastic sort that the English call a catapult, and the sort that was the poor man's missile weapon for thousands of years), an air cannon (from plumbing parts), even a torsion catapult or trebuchet (though the last couple would require some trial and error if I were cut off from the Internet). Oh, and a blowgun, simplest of all as long as the hardware store is open.

[nhrifle]

My bows are an option, and should they break or wear out, I know how to make more equipment.

I have several very powerful airguns that I have done alot of shooting with. These are not just last resort guns, I bought a Hammerli Pneuma awhile ago that continues to amaze me. I can shoot acorns off a tree as far away as I can see them and it hits as hard as any 22LR I have shot. It has taken a couple turkeys, a fox, and a groundhog. Most impressively, it dropped a coyote at a bit over 150 yards. That shot did require some hold over, but like I said I have shot it alot and I know the trajectory. Load it with heavy pellets and it will provide dinner.

[txnative1951]

I have about 40,000 primers on hand, just in case, and about 70 lbs of various powders. And at least 1000 pieces of brass for nearly every caliber for which I reload.

[Jon]

I've stocked up what I could, but can you really ever have "enough"?

[Catshooter]

Sure you can have enough. If you've left overs after you die, that was enough.

Unless you change/get into a new caliber. Oh my.


Cat

[jmorris]

My bowling ball cannon.

Click the photo for video
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/bbc/th_40psi.jpg (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/bbc/40psi.mp4)

[John Boy]

Other than supply and demand for powder and primers ... sounds like you all forgot about the 2007 OSHA Proposal to regulate...

EXPLOSIVES (http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=14100)

For those that didn't read it, might want too

[runfiverun]

osha doesn't deal with private homes or stuff.
they can't get enough money from fines from us.
btw.
besides the primer reloading thing [which may or may not work] with the new green tip matches.
there is also a sticky on making home made black powder here somewhere.
between that and the article that was in the handloader magazine about 5 years back you should be able to figure out the making/corning/and final screening.

[I'll Make Mine]

Other than supply and demand for powder and primers ... sounds like you all forgot about the 2007 OSHA Proposal to regulate...

EXPLOSIVES (http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=14100)

For those that didn't read it, might want too

No need to try to alarm folks -- I just read the release, it appears they're doing nothing but bringing their own regulations in line with DOT, BATFE, and UN in terms of labeling, storage, and classification. That doesn't imply any change in our ability to buy, store and use primers, since none of us home reloaders are subject to OSHA regulation anyway. Manufacturers are another story -- but they're already neck deep in BATFE, so I doubt OSHA bringing their regs into harmony with existing regs from other agencies is a bad thing.

[hk33ka1]

I think if the day ever comes that no new ammo or primers are allowed to be sold, people would also not be allowed to fire guns either, (or wouldnt want to be caught). In which case people will either obey the law, or there will be another civil war slash revolt. What was the old saying if its time to bury arms its time to use them. That said I don't think the day that rebels will be fighting off stormtroopers using flintlocks VS automatics will ever come.

[gunoil]

runfiverun,, @ least we have black powder. What is in a primer?, most dont know!

we use to ride the schwinn sting-ray bike to rex-all drug store in the 60's and make our gunpowder. The best days in america.

[Shooter]

where we headed, with this country. With no primers or powder, what to load or shoot? Well, iam just sayin, few weeks ago, "no primers in this city". Had to wait til gun show, Was not to long! Ball and black powder somthing? huh!

Take another look at different kinds of ammo, maybe

Back to my hillbilly roots, and load up my flintlock. Maybe now's the time to buy a fowling piece.

[mdi]

I believe my gunpowder is flammable, not explosive...

[I'll Make Mine]

What is in a primer?, most dont know!

If you don't mind corrosive primers (the only kind that are really practical and reasonably safe to load), potassium chlorate or sodium chlorate, sulfur, a little fine ground glass, and a binder (not too much binder, or the stuff won't go off). It's possible to make chlorates from hypochlorite (i.e. laundry bleach) with a fairly simple electrolysis setup.

Mercuric primers are the other option, but a) the mercury residue embrittles brass, and b) mercury to make the fulminate is a great deal harder to get and more expensive than it used to be, while c) the process of making mercury fulminate requires strong acid that is itself hazardous to handle, plus the fulminate is pretty touchy stuff.

There's a good reason modern primers are either lead styphnate/lead azide, or this new lead-free stuff (diazo-dinitro phenol or DDP, as I recall) that doesn't work quite as well -- those compounds are at least reasonably safe to handle and the lead styphnate doesn't require seriously hazardous feed stocks.

[Ole]

You can also shoot your spent primers in your .177 caliber air rifle. :mrgreen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufaPDZoAkmE

[myg30]

Ole, that air gun vid was really cool. I knew in the back of my mind, I saved all my spent primers fer something ! Now I know what it is !
I really like having an air gun around. I might invest in a .22 cal one to put away. Ya never know !

Mike

[I'll Make Mine]

You can also shoot your spent primers in your .177 caliber air rifle. :mrgreen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufaPDZoAkmE

Large primers go pretty decently in a .22 air rifle, also.

[MtGun44]

Not my first rodeo. NEVER let myself get low on primers or powder.

Bill

[Jim]

Not my first rodeo. NEVER let myself get low on primers or powder. Bill

That's what I'm thinkin'. 'An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure' and makes this purely acedemic.

[txnative1951]

I think if the day ever comes that no new ammo or primers are allowed to be sold, people would also not be allowed to fire guns either, (or wouldnt want to be caught). In which case people will either obey the law, or there will be another civil war slash revolt. What was the old saying if its time to bury arms its time to use them. That said I don't think the day that rebels will be fighting off stormtroopers using flintlocks VS automatics will ever come.

If the leftists were to repeal the 2nd Amendment (which is their ultimate goal, of course), it will not stop people from having firearms. What it will do is make it quite a bit more obvious that the federal government has declared war upon its citizens and that will mean that we can finally defend ourselves for the actions of these jackbooted thugs. I would not want to be a cop at that time since it would be obvious that if you want a firearm, all you would need to do is take one from a cop. At some point, the government is going to do something that is going to cause the people to wake up and realize that they are being treated as subjects, not *citizens* and when they do, it's going to be a sad day for the people in the federal government.

[gunoil]

i think 38 states have to agree first!

[L Erie Caster]

i think 38 states have to agree first!

Unfortunately that is not true, an international treaty (such as the one with the UN) can circumvent the constitution.

[r1kk1]

runfiverun,, @ least we have black powder. What is in a primer?, most dont know!

we use to ride the schwinn sting-ray bike to rex-all drug store in the 60's and make our gunpowder. The best days in america.

With a banana seat no less! I had a huffy from western auto. Couldn't afford schwinn. I like thrifty better since they had cheap ice cream cones and yellow front for ammo.

I bought a make your own percussion cap tool, it didn't work well.

Take care

r1kk1

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yes we are on the verge of a civil war here in CA.

I hope it doesn't happen but I'll tell you this much, If it does happen, it will happen where all of you live as well. Only matter of time.

This is because if it happens here, and they get away with it, they will attempt to do it everywhere.

They will try to do it baby steps, so it doesn't seem that bad, but the end result will be,,, YOU IN CHAINS.

People who don't think the Govt will go that far are fools. Absolute Power corrupts absolutely and the current guy in charge is acting like he has absolute power, and since nobody challenges him when he refuses to comply with subpoenas and requests for information which is rightfully not his to suppress,,,

When a News media is complacent or actively enables the adminstration to hide the ugly truths from the American people,,,

We have the perfect storm for Coup De Tat!

The founders gave us the tools to prevent this. If we choose not to use them,,, then we have only ourselves to blame.

If they try to take the guns away, that's when it will start.

Be ready,,, you only will get one chance.

Randy

By the way it might not be a bad idea to learn how to use a high powered slingshot or take up archery. I'm building new style sling shots as we speak.

[1bluehorse]

"what would I load with no powder or primers???" I'd say probably an arrow..

[o6Patient]

I really like the saying "If it were easy anybody could do it" truly I really do.
..but sometimes I think "If I weren't so stupid; it wouldn't seem quite so hard".
:kidding::bigsmyl2:

[o6Patient]

If we didn't have primers or powder....
We'd be loading Bull S... in a wagon for the liberal cause.

[jabilli]

I've also wondered about what to do if I didn't have access to primers-

About a year or so back I spent some time time trying to convert my black powder revolver (1851 Navy) to fire electronically using steel wool in the chamber. As everyone knows, when steel wool comes into contact with an electric current (Like a 9v battery) the wool ignites like in this youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZrLyjFp8vc (In this video he doesn't use the super-fine wool, which really lights up.) Here are a few pictures of my progress before I stopped- I don't have a good reason for my I dropped the project, I just did. :-\
600806008160082

It looks pretty rough- I've not worked on aesthetic improvement as this was mid-project...The first photo is how it currently is- I've cut out a channel down the middle of the hammer (Along with some other non-critical metal to allow for the wiring), run two wires down it, and JB welded them in place (thus, it looks rough).The wires run through the body and out behind the trigger- This is to be hooked up to a power source... In the second picture you'll see one of my ideas for making contact points- IIRC the gas checks would either need to be bent or cut in half, but either way, they'd need to be soldered in right about where they are in the picture. The biggest problem I ran into was finding a good method of getting the electric current from the points of contact to the inside of the chamber. I came up with a few ideas, but I think the difficulty of this task contributed to my stopping the project- One idea was/is to have two insulated wires going into the chamber without the nipple in it, then having the chamber sealed with lead (I'm pretty sure there are better things to seal it with but with my available tooling and budget (being pretty much zero) lead seemed a good choice. Another idea was/is shown in the third picture above...You'll notice that a gas check for .223's fit very well onto the end of the nipple...I played around with this idea and came up with the idea of: Boring out the nipples opening a bit...Drilling a hole in the the center of the gas check, then running a small insulated wire through the nipple/gas check and into the chamber...Then having the other wire soldered to the inner-nipple side of the gas check.For this to succeed the insulation of the small wire would have to be able to withstand heat and pressure from the chamber- else you have a short between the wire and the gas check it runs through (I was thinking heat resistant shrink wrap might work?) Another idea presented to me by a few other folks, but I would doubt if it could work, would be to use the steel of the cylinder itself as a ground- thus only having to run one wire into the chamber.

Anyway, that's where I stopped with the project, some of yall might find it interesting- I'm willing to bet taking something like a Mosin and having it fire via electric current and steel wool in the cartridge would be easier than the revolver.

[jabilli]

Oh yeah- For those of you curious about black powder in modern arms. I've looked into this some time ago and it seems sure, they work- some better than others.

Here's a youtube of a 1911 firing BP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j84J7VQ02CQ

AR-15 firing BP-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kagMmjmExYU

You'll notice in the AR video the guy has to cycle the next round by hand every time- I suppose the pressure isn't sufficient? Maybe he chose to take the gas tube out? I wonder if a super large tube paired with a really light recoil spring might make it cycle? Dunno....Kinda makes me want one of those PAR-1's (pump action ak)...That's of course, if an AK doesn't cycle BP. Anyone know? I've been wanting to try out BP in my 92, I hear it works fine until it get's filthy...I just havn't worked up the guts to try it.

[429421Cowboy]

If we get to the point where we can't get primers anymore, my ammo supply will be limited to running and fighting, because i doubt we will be able to fire guns for any other reason than that. Thus, the Crossman, my recurve with flu-flu's and small game points or hunting arrows with broadheads will make meat. And i hate to say it, if i need to put meat on the table (and for some reason can't kill a cow) i will be setting traps. Have been trapping since i was a kid, and again, hate to say this, but with as effective as snares are on coyotes, if i raised them up about a foot i know they would be meat in the pot on deer. Not a sporting way to do it but if i need to feed my family i'd do what i had to, they slaughter game up to and including elephants with cable snares in Africa, if i needed food here in the event of a total breakdown, i would do the same thing.

[HandLoad]

I was concerned about the Primer shortage a few years back, and then spotted a CVA Arms "Electra" rifle for sale, with a $100 rebate! With the Rebate, I ended up having a Rifle Mailed to my front door for $206. shipping not included.

For those who Don't know the "Electra", it uses no Primers, No Flints, No slow match - it uses a Spark Plug!!

Since I cast my own bullets for many Years, the only thing I now need to get good at is making Blackpowder. Here at this WONDERFUL Site, There are several Threads about that subject. When I was Young, in the 50s and 60s, I did make some poor powder, so I kinda know something about the process.

Anyways, since the Electra wasn't well recieved, it has gone out of Production. I have seen several for sale New and Used, at around $300. Pretty good for a Synthetic Stock, Stainless Barrel (By Bergara) all-weather gun.

Since I live in WA, I can't use it for ML season, but I can use it when the Weather is Terrible, and Feel great about having it out in the Rain and Snow. .50 Cal, and Three 777Pellets, and it is a Monster!

So, to sum up, No Bullets to Buy, No Primers to try to get, and only need to stock or make Powder.

Even Thinking about Buying one more, you know - the Survivalists' Mantra - "Two is One, and One is NONE!"

[jonk]

What would I load? My flintlocks come to mind. If push came to shove, I COULD make blackpowder or sugar based red powder.

Better than a bow.