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View Full Version : Barrel porting legal or illegal?



Junior1942
01-01-2013, 06:01 PM
I can't find a ruling on the BATF site which states that barrel porting/muzzle brakes are legal or illegal.

The Kid
01-01-2013, 06:58 PM
No reason for them to be illegal as they do not muffle the report of the firearm. There have been flash hiders ruled illegal because they quieted muzzle blast, as I understand it from visits with my local agent if a device reduces noise by 1 decibel it is considered a suppressor and subject to class III regulations. But there is no rule on the books against making a firearm louder, that I'm aware of.

nhrifle
01-01-2013, 07:02 PM
You should be good to go. Even during the Klinton Katastrophe muzzle devices were allowable as long as they were pinned and welded, so porting shouldn't offend anyone.

flounderman
01-01-2013, 07:18 PM
Be sure you want to deal with the increased noise before you do any porting. I bought about a new sako 7 mag barrel that had been magnaported. When I shot it, I see why they had sold it. It was painful to shoot without ear protection. I had a sleeve made to cover the porting.

Junior1942
01-01-2013, 07:45 PM
I spent several years with long hair and experienced several cops who looked for a reason to put me in jail because of my hair and hippy looks. If a Louisiana game warden doesn't like me for whatever reason, he could claim a port is a silencer and give me a ticket or worse. It would be up to me to hire a lawyer and prove my case. And maybe bond myself out of jail. A "should' or "probably" won't work. I need an absolute. The difference is thousands of dollars.

The Kid
01-01-2013, 08:06 PM
Louisiana game wardens are not enforcers of BATF regulations, so even if he were to give you grief the Feds would be called in to take over and the warden in question would be made to look like an ***. Surely any one who has ever been around firearms or read a hunting magazine has seen a muzzle brake. If that all fails just ask him to shoot it without ear protection :).

If porting or muzzle brakes were subject to BATF class 3 regulations I doubt very seriously that the shop I work at could have gotten away with installing up to 20 a week for the last 20 or so years without having people get tax stamps. Also Magnaport would not be able to just ship your firearm back to you directly without paperwork or a transfer. Installing a brake or porting a firearm is considered a repair by the BATF, nothing more.

Junior1942
01-01-2013, 08:33 PM
Louisiana game wardens are not enforcers of BATF regulations, so even if he were to give you grief the Feds would be called in to take over and the warden in question would be made to look like an ***. Surely any one who has ever been around firearms or read a hunting magazine has seen a muzzle brake. If that all fails just ask him to shoot it without ear protection :).

If porting or muzzle brakes were subject to BATF class 3 regulations I doubt very seriously that the shop I work at could have gotten away with installing up to 20 a week for the last 20 or so years without having people get tax stamps. Also Magnaport would not be able to just ship your firearm back to you directly without paperwork or a transfer. Installing a brake or porting a firearm is considered a repair by the BATF, nothing more.It's illegal to hunt with a silenced firearm in Louisiana. So, yes, a game warden could give me a ticket or arrest me. And if installing a brake is considered a repair by the BATF, show me where the law says that. Logic has nothing to do with it. This is after Newtown.

The Kid
01-01-2013, 08:53 PM
All I can offer that I haven't already is to tell you to call your local BATF field agent. They are usually very helpful and will set you straight.

It may be none of my business but I just have to ask what prompted this search? Have you been hassled over a ported barrel before? If so maybe a call to the wildlife commissioner is in order to talk about the on the job performance.

I wish you the best of luck although I think you are being "overly cautious".

I'll Make Mine
01-01-2013, 09:57 PM
Honestly, if you have game wardens who'll hassle you to that level, you need to find another state to hunt (and live) in.

nhrifle
01-01-2013, 10:20 PM
I just did a lengthy search to find an answer, and I couldn't find anything specific to your question written either. I will second the suggestion to ask your local ATF brach office. I have spoken to mine a couple of times and they are quite helpful. And don't worry about putting yourself in a legal bind by asking -- they will find the information and answer your question and that will be that.

Junior1942
01-02-2013, 09:26 AM
I just did a lengthy search to find an answer, and I couldn't find anything specific to your question written either. I will second the suggestion to ask your local ATF brach office. I have spoken to mine a couple of times and they are quite helpful. And don't worry about putting yourself in a legal bind by asking -- they will find the information and answer your question and that will be that.It may be next week, but that's exactly what I plan to do. I'll post the answer here along with a link to the legal text if there is a legal text. I don't believe there is. If not, IMHO, all muzzle brake users are at risk.

badgeredd
01-02-2013, 10:25 AM
To be a silencer, one must have a baffle. Ported firearms are available from several sources. IF the legality was in doubt, I seriously doubt that major manufactureres would have the option. Porting in NO way quiets a firearms report. Magnaport has be in business for at least 20 years adding ports to barrels. BTW, flash suppressors and muzzle brakes have been added to firearms to extend the barrel length to or past the minimum for several years. A fellow can add a blank barrel extension to reach the minimum length also. Of course the BATFE will have the final answer and should satisfy any questions.

Edd

PS, if a barrel would be illegal length without the extension, the extension must be permanently attached.

MBTcustom
01-02-2013, 11:58 AM
So, The game warden will bust on you for your factory ported turkey shotgun? What about your Browning A-bolt with the BOSS system?
I cannot imagine any game warden writing a citation for a muzzle break, or a ported barrel. If he can do that, then he can write a citation for a rubber butpad too.
Call your local authorities and ask. That's what they are there for.
If you are really afraid of getting in trouble with the local authorities, this is the very last place you need to be looking for advice. If an officer has you bent over the hood of your truck, "goodsteel told me it was OK" doesn't cut much ice, savvy?

pietro
01-02-2013, 12:18 PM
The last time I checked, this was still America - if BATF didn't list "it" specifically as prohibited or otherwise regulated, then anyone's good to go.

AFAIK, the only laws that specifically allowed anything was the US Constitution & the Bill of Rights.


.

scb
01-02-2013, 01:11 PM
It may be next week, but that's exactly what I plan to do. I'll post the answer here along with a link to the legal text if there is a legal text. I don't believe there is. If not, IMHO, all muzzle brake users are at risk.

Well That's what ya get when the stupid liberals are in power.

Junior1942
01-02-2013, 02:45 PM
Well That's what ya get when the stupid liberals are in power.Thanks. You're a swell guy.

Junior1942
01-02-2013, 05:15 PM
The legal/not legal person @wlf.la.gov said my holes would be a muzzle brake and "considered legal." That's good enough for me.

Doc Highwall
01-02-2013, 06:55 PM
Junior1942, Smith & Wesson makes their 500 S&W pistol with a muzzle break and other companies, do they sell these in your state?
If they do there should be no problem but I see where you are coming from.

Hardcast416taylor
01-02-2013, 07:12 PM
If porting is deemed illegal then somebody better notify Magnaport that founder Larry Kelly has been breaking the law for quite a few decades!Robert

The Kid
01-02-2013, 09:25 PM
And from the grave now for over a year. RIP Larry, great handgunner he was.

wgr
01-02-2013, 10:25 PM
i do,nt think a ported barrel would ever pass being silencer

Junior1942
01-03-2013, 09:23 AM
i do,nt think a ported barrel would ever pass being silencerNeither do I. But not 1 in 100 game wardens are half as knowledgeable about firearms as the average member of this forum. You take a 20-something fellow or female fresh out of college and very dang few of them have ever held a gun. Chances are they think a muzzle brake is some sort of brake like disk brakes. Oh, but they've seen plenty of silencers on pistols held by bad guys on TV. And they know silencers are illegal. And they know they're on the end of pistol barrels. You could plead with such a person employed as a game warden 'til your lips turn blue, but guess what? Your next plead will be to a judge.

The purpose of my starting this topic was not to get opinions. An opinion will get you jail time. I hoped someone might know of an ATF ruling on brakes vs silencers. You would think there'd be such a ruling given the number of factories producing gun barrels with muzzle brakes, as several members here pointed out. If so, I can't find it. But if a teenager-lookin' game warden is looking at my pistol barrel like it's evil and at me like I'm an assassin, I'm covered. Are you?

Willbird
01-04-2013, 12:24 AM
I read an article somewhere about a guy who was drilling holed on the bottom (6 o'clock) side of a shotgun barrel to make it quieter, he claimed he had it quiet enough you could hear the shot hit the birds when hunting. If that created a shotgun report under a given decibel amount with a mechanical alteration such as that I would assume the batf will find a way to ruin your day ;-).

arcticbreeze
01-10-2013, 12:46 AM
I don't think your going to find what your looking for. Just like there is no specific language stating that potatos are legal to grow in your yard. There is only language of what you can't grow.

The batf statutes reads:

18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3)(C).
The definition of “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(24) provides as follows:
The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.


Common sense will have to prevail. There is no question porting is not designed to reduce the report and in fact has the opposite affect. You can alway email the DNR in your state and ask the specific question than carry the answere with your hunting license.

Marc

JIMinPHX
01-11-2013, 11:57 AM
not 1 in 100 game wardens are half as knowledgeable about firearms as the average member of this forum.



A guy that I used to work with, ran across a game warden while hunting in NJ many years ago. The warden asked to see his shotgun, so he unloaded it & handed it to him. The warden then stuck a wooden dowel up the magazine tube & started writing a ticket. The ticket was for having a shell capacity larger than 3. My friend then suggested that he take a look at the caliber designation on the barrel. It was 10 ga. The warden gave him a blank stare & said that didn't matter. Of course, people here probably know that 10 ga shells tend to be longer than 12 ga shells, so a check rod for a 12 ga. will not measure a 10 ga. properly. That warden did not seem to understand that, even after it was explained to him. The guy took the ticket to court & lost because the judge didn't seem to understand either. That's NJ for you. That's just one of many reasons why I don't live there. I can only hope that LA is better.

markinalpine
01-11-2013, 04:59 PM
If you are able to, try discussing it with your counties Sheriff. Then if there IS a problem with a Game Warden or Judge, you will have him/her on your side. Unless your Sheriff is ignorant too! :groner:
Mark :coffee:

Ed K
01-12-2013, 02:23 PM
How is the report measured?

If I measure a certain sound pressure level downrange and then the firearm is ported directing the blast to the sides and even back to the shooter, do you think it not possible that at the target the SPL could be reduced by that 1dB?

TXGunNut
01-13-2013, 08:49 PM
If you are able to, try discussing it with your counties Sheriff. Then if there IS a problem with a Game Warden or Judge, you will have him/her on your side. Unless your Sheriff is ignorant too! :groner:
Mark :coffee:




In Texas game wardens work for the state and don't answer to the county sheriff. Most tickets issued by game wardens land in Justice of the Peace courts, the lowest court in the county court system. JPs are generally good folks, often retired peace officers. They should know that the Migratory Bird Act deals with the maximum number of shells in a shotgun's magazine, nothing about a wooden dowel. The warden made a quick check with a tool but didn't verify the results with actual ammo. He made a mistake and it should be addressed w/ his supervisor, too bad it wound up in the courts.

Junior1942
01-16-2013, 04:13 PM
I've decided NOT to port my 357 barrel. I'm already 1/2 deaf, and thanks to some of you who pointed out the increased noise a port job would bring, I think I'll stay 1/2 deaf instead of all deaf. A big thanks to the gunsmiths here who know what the heck they're doing!

Artful
01-20-2013, 12:46 PM
No reason for them to be illegal as they do not muffle the report of the firearm. There have been flash hiders ruled illegal because they quieted muzzle blast, as I understand it from visits with my local agent if a device reduces noise by 1 decibel it is considered a suppressor and subject to class III regulations. But there is no rule on the books against making a firearm louder, that I'm aware of.

Actually, there is a case where someone working for the dark side tried to make suppressed handguns, but the device actually raised the noise level of shots fired, and he was still convicted on intent to make it quieter. So sound level doesn't really mean anything - other wise you couldn't by the long barrels for your 870 could you.

TXGunNut
01-23-2013, 04:47 PM
I've decided NOT to port my 357 barrel. I'm already 1/2 deaf, and thanks to some of you who pointed out the increased noise a port job would bring, I think I'll stay 1/2 deaf instead of all deaf. A big thanks to the gunsmiths here who know what the heck they're doing!


Good point, have to remind some folks who think it's OK to stand next to a ported weapon when firing.

TXGunNut
01-23-2013, 04:53 PM
I've decided NOT to port my 357 barrel. I'm already 1/2 deaf, and thanks to some of you who pointed out the increased noise a port job would bring, I think I'll stay 1/2 deaf instead of all deaf. A big thanks to the gunsmiths here who know what the heck they're doing!


Good point, have to remind some folks who think it's OK to stand next to a ported weapon when firing.

nanuk
02-24-2013, 09:34 PM
A guy that I used to work with, ran across a game warden while hunting in NJ many years ago. The warden asked to see his shotgun, so he unloaded it & handed it to him. The warden then stuck a wooden dowel up the magazine tube & started writing a ticket. The ticket was for having a shell capacity larger than 3. My friend then suggested that he take a look at the caliber designation on the barrel. It was 10 ga. The warden gave him a blank stare & said that didn't matter. Of course, people here probably know that 10 ga shells tend to be longer than 12 ga shells, so a check rod for a 12 ga. will not measure a 10 ga. properly. That warden did not seem to understand that, even after it was explained to him. The guy took the ticket to court & lost because the judge didn't seem to understand either. That's NJ for you. That's just one of many reasons why I don't live there. I can only hope that LA is better.

I'd take my gun in, with a variety of rounds and ask the prosecutor to try to stuff more thant the legal number.....

Coonazz
04-19-2013, 11:21 PM
A guy that I used to work with, ran across a game warden while hunting in NJ many years ago. The warden asked to see his shotgun, so he unloaded it & handed it to him. The warden then stuck a wooden dowel up the magazine tube & started writing a ticket. The ticket was for having a shell capacity larger than 3. My friend then suggested that he take a look at the caliber designation on the barrel. It was 10 ga. The warden gave him a blank stare & said that didn't matter. Of course, people here probably know that 10 ga shells tend to be longer than 12 ga shells, so a check rod for a 12 ga. will not measure a 10 ga. properly. That warden did not seem to understand that, even after it was explained to him. The guy took the ticket to court & lost because the judge didn't seem to understand either. That's NJ for you. That's just one of many reasons why I don't live there. I can only hope that LA is better.

Unfortunately ignorant people are everywhere. While duck hunting, a warden came to the blind to check us and asked where the plug was located on my shotgun. It's a Browning Citori........

Junior1942
04-20-2013, 10:16 AM
Unfortunately ignorant people are everywhere. While duck hunting, a warden came to the blind to check us and asked where the plug was located on my shotgun. It's a Browning Citori........That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about!

Mk42gunner
04-20-2013, 04:57 PM
Unfortunately ignorant people are everywhere. While duck hunting, a warden came to the blind to check us and asked where the plug was located on my shotgun. It's a Browning Citori........

Unbelievable... I think I would have told him I didn't have one for it and took the ticket, while having him write the make model and serial number of the gun on the ticket. Just to show up in court and make a laughing stock of him.

Of course, if you did that, you would spend more time digging your license out than fishing or hunting, from then on.

Robert

John in WYO
05-04-2013, 12:55 PM
Junior1942,

I'd suggest writing a letter to the head of your game and fish department, with a copy to your State Attorney General explaining specifically what your question is. Include photos of your device. Ask for a written reply.

Keep a copy of the letter with you when afield if you're contacted by a warden.
That should satisfy the issue.

John

John in WYO
05-04-2013, 12:59 PM
I've decided NOT to port my 357 barrel. I'm already 1/2 deaf, and thanks to some of you who pointed out the increased noise a port job would bring, I think I'll stay 1/2 deaf instead of all deaf. A big thanks to the gunsmiths here who know what the heck they're doing!
Oops, just found this post.
Oh ***** no! Porting a .357? I'm with you brother. Too brutal on the ears. One of the reasons I traded my .454 Casull.

John in WYO
05-04-2013, 01:03 PM
Unfortunately ignorant people are everywhere. While duck hunting, a warden came to the blind to check us and asked where the plug was located on my shotgun. It's a Browning Citori........

Shakes head in disbelief....

creatinewarrior
07-23-2013, 04:14 PM
my educated guess would be no. Weatherby sells rifles with ported barrels dont they? a "ported" barrel just has holes near the muzzle to help with recoil by allowing gasses out. but never take somebody's word for it. dont take chances. you can look up the law, i think Title 18 of the US Code deals with whats a crime.
Call your local ATF field office, ask for the Agent in Charge, and tell him your concerns and ask your question. They are usually actually helpful and want to answer your question. You can also call the local Assistant US Attorney and tell them you want to know if such and such is illegal but it may take days to get an answer from them.Calling ATF and your state police should get it solved. and its their job to do things like this for citizens and many times these people are very helpful.
http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

pmeisel
07-24-2013, 11:45 AM
Junior, if you ported the 357 and shot it a lot, you'd be able to listen to talk radio and Fox News without getting mad, cause you wouldn't hear a thing!