Levergun Vertical Impact Shifts

[TXGunNut]

I have what seems to be a common problem but haven't seen a definitive solution yet, could use a bit of direction.
First rifle is a 2003 vintage 336 Marlin in 35 Rem and impact begins to wander wildly after the second shot. Magazine tube contacts the barrel less than an inch from the muzzle. Rifle wears a cheap Simmons 2-6X (?) scope that I can't bear to replace, very good optically and mechanically. This is my new favorite hunting rifle and I see little need for a third shot but can't help but want to tweak it a bit, suspect it's a very accurate rifle.
Second rifle is a 1969 vintage Winchester 94 in 32 WS, second (and subsequent) shot(s) impacts 2" lower than the first shot from a cold, clean bore @ 50 yds. Decent group for all but first shot, just not something I want to take hunting. This rifle wears a receiver mounted aperture sight and a Lyman globe sight. Mag tube doesn't seem to contact the barrel at any point. Rifle is destined to be a plinker but it may go hunting with me someday. I don't think it's a tackdriver but with aperture sights and my eyes I'll probably never know. Forend barrel band is loose but the muzzle band is very tight.
Both rifles seem to be quite accurate with the CB loads I've worked up. Both have full-length mag tubes wth barrel bands @ the forend and near the muzzle.
I'm wondering if I can simply rotate the mag tube on the Marlin or if I need to remove it and carefully tweak it, I'm sure that's the first thing that needs addressing. No idea where to start on the 94.
Suggestions?

[lylejb]

I went thru the same thing with a 50's Win 94 30-30 about a year ago, but cannot find the thread I ran about it. In a nutshell, my rifle had too tight of fit, at the forarm, mag tube, front barrel band. The fix was done in several steps. I took it slowly, taking off a little bit at a time and trying it again.

Essentially, I had to " free float" the barrel, somewhat like is done with a bolt action. In my case, the forarm wood was absolutly wedged against the barrel, holding tension at all times. I removed the forearm, and sanded out the barrel channel. I sanded untill the tension was relieved, but not so much as to leave a gap.

Also, my mag tube too long. It was also wedged between the cross screw / barrel band, and reciever. In my case, this was so tight that it almost had to be hammeded into the reciever to get the pin in place. I shortened the tube, on the reciever end, just enough to relieve the tension. This was maybe 1/16 - 3/32 inch.

I sanded a small bit of clearance between both barrel bans and the barrel. Not much, just a few 1000th's .

All of these modifications were done in very small bits, a little at a time, untill the problem was solved.

Before, my rifle would string vertical about 8 inches at 50 yds, over the course of 8 or 10 shots. Now, it shoots round groups.

Hope this helps.

[TXGunNut]

Thanks. Forearm inletting on the 94 looks like a good place to start, lots of contact in that area. Has a dent where someone hit it trying to adjust or remove the rear sight so it may get a facelift while I'm at it.

[geargnasher]

The Winchester may be suffering from poor choice of boolit lube. The Marlin (and the Winchester too, possibly) would certainly benefit from some tuning of all the junk that's hung on the barrel. The Marlinowners website has lots of tips and fixes.

Gear

[MGySgt]

I had an old 1895 the was stringing vertical. I took the fore end off and the mag tube and shot it without them. nice round SMALL group - had to shorthen the forend - you could see the crush fit on the receiver end of the forend. Also when you tightend the screw for the mag tube it warped the tube towards the barrel - forend pressure :) I thinned a washer to just fit between the Mag tube and the barrel to take the tension out of the mag tube when you tightened the screw -

Nice round MOA groups all day long with my hand loads as long as my shoulder held out :)

Now I do that to any Marlin I or my son buys.

[TXGunNut]

The Winchester may be suffering from poor choice of boolit lube. The Marlin (and the Winchester too, possibly) would certainly benefit from some tuning of all the junk that's hung on the barrel. The Marlinowners website has lots of tips and fixes.

Gear

Lube seems to be adequate, only leading is a tiny bit in the Marlin within an inch of the muzzle. No issues in the Winchester.
Good tip on the Marlinowners website, trying to avoid going there because I could lose a week or more just reading all the great posts...like when I found this site.
Thanks!

[TXGunNut]

I had an old 1895 the was stringing vertical. I took the fore end off and the mag tube and shot it without them. nice round SMALL group - had to shorthen the forend - you could see the crush fit on the receiver end of the forend. Also when you tightend the screw for the mag tube it warped the tube towards the barrel - forend pressure :) I thinned a washer to just fit between the Mag tube and the barrel to take the tension out of the mag tube when you tightened the screw -

Nice round MOA groups all day long with my hand loads as long as my shoulder held out :)

Now I do that to any Marlin I or my son buys.

Sounds like a good place to start, will pull the fore end off and check the receiver end. Will try your trick on the barrel band as well, also wondering if previous owner may have dropped it. Thanks!

[MGySgt]

By shooting it without the forend and Mag Tube you can quickly tell if the barrel/Crown are good. If it doesn't group without them try a different lube or boolit.

[TXGunNut]

The Marlin shoots very well as long as the barrel is cold, crown looks good. I removed and tweaked the mag tube and checked the forend clearance. Forend looks good, mag tube no longer pushing up on the muzzle end of the barrel. Seems to like the RD boolit even better than the CorLokt Remmy. I did apply a second coat of LLA and a coat of Rooster Jacket for the next batch. Now it just needs a trip to the range. :)
Winny will have to wait for another day, woodwork requires a frame of mind I can't seem to muster today.

[TXGunNut]

The Marlin shoots very well as long as the barrel is cold, crown looks good. I removed and tweaked the mag tube and checked the forend clearance. Forend looks good, mag tube no longer pushing up on the muzzle end of the barrel. Seems to like the RD boolit even better than the CorLokt Remmy. I did apply a second coat of LLA and a coat of Rooster Jacket for the next batch. Now it just needs a trip to the range.

[TXGunNut]

Got the Winchester fore end inletted today and decided to try to steam a few dents out and refinish it. Got all the little dents out and most of the big one. Wood is some light colored mystery wood (birch?) and I didn't have any stain on hand so just put a temp oil finish on it. Thinking if it shoots OK I'll have Macon send me some walnut blanks if I can't find any used ones.