Lee pot grounded/leaking voltage

[Spawn-Inc]

not to long ago i ordered a PID setup and put it all together, turned it on and no smoke or sparks :)(not that i doubt myself in the least)

i went to use it today and when i was moving the PID box (old power supply case) my hand touched the metal shielding on the temp prob and i was shocked!

so i got the multi-meter out and sure enough there was 98volts on the prob. i unplugged the pot from the PID system and plugged it into the outlet. there was 50 volts everywhere on the pot...

i've used the pot plenty of other times without issues. i opened it up and it all looks good wiring wise, nothing is grounding that i can see. my only other thought was maybe its leaking through the heating element?

[I'll Make Mine]

You've got compromised insulation somewhere, possibly where the heating element is cast or embedded into the pot base and walls. If you plug that pot into a GFCI, it'll pop the unit instantly -- and until it'll stay on with a GFCI, you shouldn't attempt to use it. It takes only 30 milliamps of North American 60 Hz mains current to stop your heart and kill you, and if you should ground across the chest, you can carry that much current from as little as 30 volts.

Given it's a Lee, I'd contact them about a replacement; they're very good about that kind of thing, but even if they don't offer to replace the pot, you should discard it in a fashion where no one else will be able to use it (i.e. at a minimum cut the heating element or its feed wires at both ends). The cost of a new pot is nothing compared to the cost of a funeral...

[craig61a]

I'd go back and have a look at the wiring. It's obvious that somewhere along the line the shield has come into contact with the hot side of the supply. The shield is there to block/channel away any noise, such as electrical motors, starting and running etc. Sheild should be connected to neutral/ground in the control box. May want to have a look at the controller also if you wired the sheild into it - might be some leakge througth the controller or a strand of wire making contact somewhere that it shouldn't.

[Catshooter]

Yes, your pot has issues. If it were mine, I would sort them out prior to use. If they wouldn't sort, I'd destroy all the electrical components and replace with new. MidwayUSA carries them.

One small point, plugging the pot into a GFCI controlled outlet may not trip it. Don't let that fool you, if the mulitmeter shows voltage on the outside of the pot then beleive it, not the GFI. It wouldn't surprise me if it wouldn't trip one. There's no ground connection in Lee's set up and the if the pot's leakage has no where to go the GFI won't see a problem. Don't use a GFI as a tester.


Cat

[Spawn-Inc]

well i just took my pot apart and the heater element is leaking the power into the casing.

i will give lee a call and see what they say, it seemed funny that little flakes of metal from the element were coming off as i set it up for the PID controller.

thanks for all the replys, i will let you know what happens.

[craig61a]

That would certainly do it.

[I'll Make Mine]

Don't use a GFI as a tester.

While this is good advice, a correctly working GFCI will prevent injury even if it doesn't trip just from having voltage on the case -- the GFCI detects imbalance between hot and neutral wires in the circuit; if there's as much as 10 milliamp difference, it will break the circuit in less than one cycle. While this may not prevent voltage from appearing where it shouldn't, it will prevent current from flowing for long enough to be hazardous.

In my opinion (as someone who repairs electrical power tools daily), any ungrounded device with a metallic shell (such as a casting pot) should be operated only on a GFCI circuit. FWIW, you can buy GFCI units that go in circuit like a very short extension cord, for around $20; if you don't have GFCI in the outlets in your casting area, it's worth investing in a device like this (it can protect, for instance, a power strip that can support multiple devices, as long as the total draw doesn't exceed the circuit rating).

[Spawn-Inc]

i just tried the pot alone, and with the PID system and it didn't trip my GFCI's (3 in the house) seems to leak 30 volts now. waiting for a response from lee.

[Catshooter]

Thirty volts now. Later?


Cat

[Spawn-Inc]

Thirty volts now. Later?


Cat

i've stopped using it, as i said i'm waiting for lee to respond. safety safety safety...

[I'll Make Mine]

i've stopped using it, as i said i'm waiting for lee to respond. safety safety safety...

Good plan. In theory, the GFCI should protect you from shocks even if the device is showing voltage on the case (that is, it should break the circuit as soon as that case voltage becomes a case current), but in practice, why use your body to test that your GFCI is working correctly?

[Spawn-Inc]

lee sent me an email to send them back the pot!


Please return the pot back to the factory and include the below note inside the box along with your daytime phone contact information. We will repair or replace your pot and ship it back to you at no charge.

[I'll Make Mine]

And that's why I'll continue to buy Lee (well, that and their relative pricing). Simply amazing to see them combine quality, customer service, and price the way they do on products made in America.

[Spawn-Inc]

And that's why I'll continue to buy Lee (well, that and their relative pricing). Simply amazing to see them combine quality, customer service, and price the way they do on products made in America.

exactly, without lee i wouldn't be reloading, or casting. most of my stuff is lee and it works just fine, just needs a bit of work, hence the price tag.

[chrisw]

While your waiting, this is the perfect time to buy a second pot. If you had 2, that's better than 1!

[Griz44mag]

Heating elements do fail after many hours of use. The elements can be purchased separately, as well as the thermostats.
I have replaced the element in one of my pots, and now keep a spare element and thermostat on the shelf.
They are pretty cheap, and you can get back up and cooking lead in a matter of minutes (if the pot is cold).