Plain Base 311291

[Ben]

I have a 2 cav. Lyman 311291 that has all the " right numbers " on the nose dia. readings and drive band mic readings. I had sent the mold to Erik for HP work on the front cavity of the mold. The bullets out of the front cavity can be flat pointed, cup pointed, or deep hp'd. The front cav. of the mold continues to keep the orig. factory g/c shank which fits my .014" AL gas checks very well.

Here is a link showing the cup point 311291's that come from this mold :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?133711-311291-Cup-Point

I decided today that I'd remove the gas check shank on the rear cavity ( closest to the handle hinge pin ) and make a plain base bullet out of that cavity.

I'm well pleased with the results.

Now,...... to get some decent weather to go out to the range and test them.

The nose on this one is a nice round .301 ".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/011-22_zpsf94637eb.jpg

Here is the bullet after it has been pushed through a Lee .311 " " Push Thru " sizer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/003-39_zps364d26ad.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/007-26_zps3f92491b.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/005-26_zpsd460e4d4.jpg

I took the bullets that I cast today & sized them to .311" , lubed them with Ben's Red and lightly rolled in Lee Liquid Alox . They are drying in the photo below ( the LLA will give the nose some lubrication as it makes its trip down the barrel ) . This
routine has provided some pretty accurate plain based
.30 cal. bullets for me in the past :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Capture_zpsccc5701e.jpg

[HARRYMPOPE]

I (Erik Ohlen actually did it) did the same with one and also added a .318 dia "stop ring" on the front band for a large throat Mosin Nagant. Even with the undersized for the bore .301 nose the bullet driven at 1200 shot pretty well. Then I sized out the stop ring and accuracy still was good. So much for the stop ring idea!

[Ben]

When I was shooting these pics, I thought of you George.

You have about as much experience with what will work and won't work with a plain based .30 cal. bullet as anyone else that I know of on this forum.

I hold your opinions in " high regard."

Ben

[longbow]

Ben:

I hope you didn't use a drill bit again. You know that doesn't work... right!?!:)

Seriously though, nice job again!

I have a new Mihec mould coming soon (about to be cut ~ 311410 clone in Cramer style). I elected to go PB with this one partly based on your good experiences with PB boolits and partly because I hate fiddling with GC's. I also have some PB boolit moulds I made that are doing pretty well so...

I will be looking forward to seeing your results with your "new" mould. Your posted photos give something to strive for! I am not there yet.

Longbow

[CWME]

I was wondering what would happen if you only removed half of the GC shank and left a shallow gg similar to the gap that is there after the GC is installed? But also wondering if that large rear band is helping the boolit grab the rifling and helping to seal the bore. If by only cutting half the gc shank would you be gaining anything or causing more issues I guess is what I am getting at. Just some questions that pop up when I see your nice plain based boolit threads

[Ben]

CWME

I have about 5 ea. .30 cal. plain based
molds that I've removed the g/c shank
on. All have the " thick rear shank ", all are shooters....................

----------------------------------------------------

Longbow

I hope you didn't use a drill bit again. You know that doesn't work... right!?!

Yes, you're right....it can't be done with a drill bit.:-D:-D:-D

Ben

[MtGun44]

It looks like "dead on" .302, am I seeing it wrong?

Looks a real nice boolit. Please report results.

Bill

[alrighty]

It looks like "dead on" .302, am I seeing it wrong?

Looks a real nice boolit. Please report results.

Bill
I thought so too , at first.It appears this micrometer reads in 1/2 thousandths or .0005 per line.If you look at the tenths line , it only goes to the number 5.Also the barrel appears to have lines at every .020 thousandths instead of the normal four lines per .100.

[longbow]

You know what? I like that thick rear driving band too. it "looks right" to me!

Hah! You know you can't do that with a drill bit! aside, I made a special reamer to remove the GC shank of a Lyman 314299 and messed it up! I should have hand turned the lathe chuck but was lazy and fired it up so it was running fairly fast and the "special reamer" removed more than it did when tested by hand so I wound up with about 0.320" base bands. Doh! I should have used a drill bit like Ben.

Yes, range report... with photos! I am betting you get one ragged hole again. I get one ragged hole too but only when I shoot once!

Longbow

[Ben]

It looks like "dead on" .302, am I seeing it wrong?

Looks a real nice boolit. Please report results.

Bill

Bill,

This thing is a " High Tech " micrometer made in Japan.
A very precision instrument.
Probably much more so than I really need.

The " half marks " are .0005 ", the nose of the bullet does mike exactly .301". If the mic had stopped on the 1st mark past .3000, it would have read .3005"

Sorry for the confusion, it confused me for a bit after I had purchased the mic and used it some.

I'm fine with it now...............

Again, this mic is capable of much more precision than the typical bullet caster / reloader really would ever have a need for.

Ben

[Elkins45]

I did the same to a single cavity Lee 170 but I used a lathe. I might have been better off if I had just used the drill bit, as it does a pretty good job of self-centering.

On a totally separate note: what camera/lens are you using for those macro shots? I have noticed that the photos in your posts are always very well done. I realize that skill is responsible for most of that, but your hardware seems to be up to the task as well.

[Ben]

Elkins45

Thanks for those nice comments on my photos !
Here are the " specs " on my camera :

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Product-Archive/Compact-Digital-Cameras/26194/COOLPIX-L110.html

[HARRYMPOPE]

Ben try shooting some without lube.I did this for awhile and got great accuracy.

George

[Ben]

Ben try shooting some without lube.I did this for awhile and got great accuracy.

George


What about leading George ?

[HARRYMPOPE]

I didn't get any leading until about 80-100 shots and then it wasn't bad just a very light powdery "wash".And then two lubed GC bullets got it back shooting.I was omitting lube for my indoor shooting to get rid of the smoke originally.It was in a 30-06 with 8-9g of Unique and the 308403.It may have been unique to the rifle bullet combo but it did work.I have done it with unlubed GC 35 bullets in a 35 Whelen also with similar luck.

[Ben]

I had no idea this could be done....Looks like an old dog can learn a new trick.

Ben

[HARRYMPOPE]

My mentor Bob Mills turned me on to it about 10 years ago.he also shoots his 44 mag and 45 colts with duplex loads with fast powder below followed by a case full of slow stuff (like 4831) and gets no leading and great accuracy.He lives alone on a big chunk of land and gets board and tries unusual things.he will do things like intentionally lead a barrel and see how long it takes to get it out by shooting.It was while doing this he found sometimes it was hard to lead a barrel badly if the bullet fit well and sometimes they shot pretty darn good.


Try a few with your Modern Bond 190g plainbase and report back.I am am curious how yours does.

[Ben]

OK George.

Ben

[Ben]

Longbow :

I elected to go PB with this one partly based on your good experiences with PB boolits and partly because I hate fiddling with GC's.
--------------------------------------------------------------

I can process these plain based bullets 6 - 7 times faster than I can putting gas checks on a gas checked style bullet. Not counting the extra labor of making gas checks with my g/c making tool or forking out extra $$ for Hornady g/c's.

Prepping these plain bullets is fast , and under the right conditions will shoot as accurately , or more so as a g/c'd .30 cal. bullet.

Of course, throat fit & velocity are prime factors to keep your eye on with plain based bullets if you hope to achieve great accuracy.

In many cases in the 30-06, I'm shooting less than 10 grs. of powder.

That allows you to get almost 800 rounds out of a pound of powder.

Considering there is no gas check to buy and these loads are so stingy with powder, GEE, what isn't to like ?

Ben

[HARRYMPOPE]

Once you stop using lube it gets really fast!

[brstevns]

Silly question but i will ask. Why want a plain based 311292 over one using a gc ?

[HARRYMPOPE]

Silly question but i will ask. Why want a plain based 311292 over one using a gc ?

if you are only going to 100 yards the GC bullet isn't needed and as Ben said its more labor and cost.

[Ben]

George :

I've shot my plain based version of the SAECO # 315 with only 1 lube ring with lube.

Not a trace of leading at 1,200 fps after 50 rounds.

Ben

[Ben]

Silly question but i will ask. Why want a plain based 311292 over one using a gc ?

brstevns


This might help answer your question ?
Shooting was done at 50 yards , 5 shot groups.
No gas check on any of these plain based bullets:

See # 9 and # 10 in this link below :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?173556-Plain-base-a-180-gr-Lee-30-cal-mold

[brstevns]

brstevns


This might help answer your question ?
Shooting was done at 50 yards , 5 shot groups.
No gas check on any of these plain based bullets:

See # 9 and # 10 in this link below :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?173556-Plain-base-a-180-gr-Lee-30-cal-mold

Wow! I get it. Thanks

[Ben]

brstevns :

Would be real easy for you to do the same.

[longbow]

Ben:

Yes, I have been shooting the NOE 0.314" x 129 gr. (gas checked) in my 303's over 10 grs. of 700X lately with good results but somewhat more energetic than I had intended. I have not chronographed them but I suspect they are near 2000 FPS or at least high teens. I am sure I could drop the powder by 2 or 3 grs. and still have a good load and would likely get away with PB boolits. That is my intent with the 311410 anyway. Yes, for easy to assemble and economical loads for fun shooting.

I don't much like fiddling with gas checks either unless they are needed ~ then it becomes a question of gas check or paper patch which seem to me to be about the same amount of work overall.

What can I say... I am lazy and cheap!

Longbow

[Ben]

lazy and cheap!

Seems to be in most all of us.
Most of us got in this " game " to save money.

After I spent $9,000 on reloading gear, I finally started saving a bit of money. Kind of an odd paradox isn't it ?

Ben

[MtGun44]

GCs are expensive and "fiddly" to put on. If you can get by without them, it is a good thing.

Bill