Range report - 357/44 B&D (Bain and Davis) in 23" Encore

[ohland]

Well, I gingerly went down to the range today and chrono'd 20 rounds as we fireformed the W-W cases.

Encore, 22" stainless, bull
357/44 B&D (second, tapered shoulder)
W-W 44 Mag brass
Federal Magnum Large Pistol primer
Hornady 125 gr XTP
23 grains W296

The first rounds did @2300, then settled down to @2150. My surmise is the barrel hadn't been fired much. Dad says there is some copper fouling. Cases were blackened on the outside, hoping that will go away with heavier bullets and a better fit. Forend is sucky, due to the T/C quick detatch system either not being correctly installed, or just plain junk, dunno. Loose forend... Leopold scope did not have enough vertical adjustment, so the cluster is as high as it is going to go.

57111

Range is 25 yards. The bullet holes in the left / center of target are from another gun. You can see the bullets coming up from the lower right, then stopping in a cluster. That cluster has 15 rounds in it.

:coffee:

[ohland]

Folks, the old man whipped up a handful of power, er, handfuls of power. I have ordered a T/C 7708 synthetic forend, still using the loose T/C Quick Release forend. Another scope has been mounted, should have enough elevation. Waiting for the temps to crawl up to the 20s...

W-W 44 Mag brass (formed to second, tapered, shape)
Hornady 158gr HP XTP #35750
Fed Mag LP
23gr W296
Supposedly @2000 fps in a 10 inch Contender.

OAL is 1.745 (Hornady shows C.O.L.: 1.580), trim to length is 1.270, bullet length is .670,bullet extends .475 past the case. Does not look like a short throat here... Neck is .150, bullet extends into case .195 (from mouth!), bottom of bullet is .040 below case neck. Looks interesting for a cast boolit. The XTP is a rather straight bullet, and I would expect a boolit with a tapered nose would be able to extend farther out. 358315?

58746

Happy New Year!

:2 drunk buddies:

[ohland]

Apologies, I measured it Thursday night, and it is 22" long.

:-?

[Urny]

Thanks for the interesting new look at an old, almost buried cartridge. It looks more useful in a rifle than a handgun.

[ohland]

It is clearly apparent that the T/C Encore chamber is quite long. The OAL used to try and reach the rifling show that perhaps a cast boolit seated way out (and properly sized for the chamber) is a distinct possibility. Note that the Encore has plenty of room for a long chamber, while the S&Ws and Rugers probably don't. 140gr FTX (left) and 158gr XTP (right)

58747

Here is a shot (poor, battery was dying) of the loaded 140gr FTX, and the loose bullet alongside...

Hornady 140gr FTX, #35745, bullet is .791 long. Cartridge OAL is 1.864, case is 1.270. Bullet is in case .197, so it is below the case neck @.040 inch. Plenty of room for powder...

[ohland]

Hornady 140gr FTX, #35745, OAL is 1.864

Rem LR primer
W296 23.5gr
WW 44 Mag brass

Note to self - these things are loud. Wear earplugs. Fired one round just to do it, things took a bit of a ring for the next 30 minutes... :not listening:

My ProChrono Digital had an erroneous shot of 10fps, which I could not get PCRemote to delete. So I manually deleted it (and somehow one other, I believe!) and refigured ES and Avg velocity. SD is something...

Date:~1/18/2013

Hi Vel:~2335
Low Vel:~2252
Ave Vel:~2293
Ext Spread:~83
Std Dev:~???

Velocity~Power Factor~Ft/Lbs
2302~ 0.000~ 0.000
2252~ 0.000~ 0.000
2335~ 0.000~ 0.000
2310~ 0.000~ 0.000
2256~ 0.000~ 0.000
2326~ 0.000~ 0.000
2267~ 0.000~ 0.000

58758

50 yards. Three shots strung up from left top of blue paper are scope adjustment, cluster is five shots. Scope is sort of crude... Wind from the left, 29mph, gusts to 40mph. Two shots to lower right are from a previous user.

58756

The old reprobate doing the shooting (not me!)

[ohland]

Old man had used large rifle primers in last batch of 357/44 B&D. I thought they were high, and while I was using a mic for OAL, the primer was not flush. Still worked in the Encore, but it has a very close breech to frame gap, so a few thousandths protrusion is workable.

Ordered a K&M Large pistol primer uniformer.

For those of you not in the know:

Primer depth varies:
Small Pistol/Small Rifle/Large Pistol....: 0.118" to 0.122"
Large Rifle....................................: 0.128" to 0.132"

Diameters for small and large primers are the same whether in a pistol or rifle:
Small pistol and small rifle primers have the same diameter (.175")
Large rifle and large pistol primers are also the same (.210")

[lar45]

Looks like it would make an excellent levergun round.
You should be able to get 2100 with a 180.

[ohland]

Old reprobate touched off four rounds today, they averaged about 2300. One case started to split from the bottom of the taper, down about 3/8ths of an inch.

Still using a 4x scope. I am not happy with the case prep. My Alliant 300-MP is in.

Then he fire formed some 6x47 and those velocities pretty much stayed within 20fps of each other. Got to love the 222 Rem mag parent case.

[BAGTIC]

I don't see anything that would make me want to switch from my .357 Maximums.

Advantages for .357 Max. Don't need to form .357 Max brass. Can size with carbide dies. .357 has very slight case capacity advantage. Higher SAAMI MAP limits and can safely be loaded above SAAMI as the case is stronger than .44 Magnum case. Produces less breech thrust. Longer neck for seating cast bullets.

[ohland]

My dad has three or so rifles in 357 Max. Easy to load for, no forming needed, much reloading data. BUT... when you get an Encore barrel and it is in 357/44, its a bit hard to just ream it out like a 357 Mag, or 38 Special. Reboring to a larger bore is not in the cards. I am finding out what the 357/44 can do (158gr @2250) and it is no slouch.

BUT... I see that Reeder will rechamber it to 356 GNR, using 445 Super Mag brass. How is that for a fistful of power? Besides, that means that I can pass forward the 357/44 B&D Hormady New Dimension dies to someone with a revolver...

:Fire:

[357Mag]

Ohland -

Howdy !

Can't say that you should. but were you to somehow be able to try-out a 22" .357AutoMag.... I'm pretty sure you'd like it !

Can make these out of 6BR or 7BR brass, so there's great brass to be had, from the likes of Lapua and Norm.
Consistent brass can help ease case prep involvement.
.357AutoMag based off fore-shortened .308 brass & necked to .35 calibre. Use of SR rifle primer is a natural fit.

Truth be known..... 22" barrel length may very well be scrubbing-off vel and not boosting it.... when shooting .35 calibre carbine cartridges w/ powderd like WW296; and bullet wt of 140-180gr. It's what J.D. Jones mentioned to me, when I told him I wanted to run w/ a 22" barrel.

Please keep us posted !

With regards,
357Mag