Tough Jacket-Pistol Calibers?

[ReloaderFred]

I'm having a problem finding a bullet, either swaged or commercial, that will hold up in my 9x25 Dillon, which is the 10mm case necked down to 9mm. I'm pushing a 115 gr. jacketed bullet at 1,600 fps +/-. I've been using Winchester FMJ bullets that I've swaged into a round nose flat point, since I'm limited to an OAL of 1.250", and round nose bullets, particularly those with the NATO profile, won't allow that seating depth, due to the ogive. Only FP or HP bullets will work.

With driving this bullet at this velocity, as soon as the bullets hit something, they literally come apart, since I'm pushing them way beyond their design limits. I've tried swaging some 115 gr. bullets from .32 acp brass, but it's still pretty thin. I've yet to shoot the few I made, but hope to in the next few days.

What I'm looking for is a source for a heavy jacket that I can swage into an acceptable .356" diameter 115 gr. bullet. I have plenty of core material, the swaging dies, a Corbin CSP-1 press, etc. All I need is a good heavy jacket to make my bullets from. I don't want an expanding bullet, such as a hollowpoint, since even the FMJ bullets come apart at these velocities.

I'm open to all suggestions.

Thanks in advance,

Fred

[danielk]

Most people that I knew using this cartridge, back in the old days of USPSA, were loading 115 grain fmjs to around 1.268. Does your barrel have a short throat? Or have you just not tried loading them longer? As for the bullet staying together you'll have a tough time with any 9mm projectile holding up at those velocities. Most are designed to expand at MUCH lower velocity.

[I'll Make Mine]

Try .30 Carbine brass? It starts a little bigger than .32 ACP, but it's quite a bit thicker (and trimming to length will give a thicker mouth, too).

[MIBULLETS]

3/8" copper tubing would work well.

[ReloaderFred]

danielk,

My magazines won't allow anything much longer. When you fill the magazine, the noses drag on longer rounds, causing feeding issues. I have the original load work up sheets Dillon did for this load, and all the loads were done with standard 9mm bullets. They weren't concerned about the bullets breaking up, since they were primarily shooting paper and steel, so there was no quest for a tougher bullet. I may try some bullets intended for 357 Sig, but even those are designed for velocities in the 1,400 fps range, and I don't expect them to hold up much better than the Winchester FMJ bullets.

I'll Make Mine,

I've only got about 1,500 rounds of .30 Carbine brass, and two M1 Carbines to feed, so there's just no way I could justify cutting up my meager supply of that brass. Thanks for the input, though.

MIBULLETS,

I'd thought about copper tubing, but I'm not sure how you fold over the ends to properly form the jackets. I'm guessing I would need another die to start the tubing to curl. I haven't tried making any tubing jacketed bullets, but I'm willing to give anything a try.

Thanks,

Fred

[Reload3006]

I would try using a different alloy for my cores and bond them it will slow the expansion down.

[Bwana]

PM inbound.

[ReloaderFred]

Thanks Reload3006 and Bwana. Both ideas have lots of merit, and I'll probably give them both a try.

Fred

[runfiverun]

definatley give the harder core a try.
i had the opposite problem shooting varmints with an unannealed jaxket and ww alloy cut in half with soft lead.
the bullets would just pencil through them.
i had to soften the jaxket and soften the core both to get the expansion i wanted.
it helped a lot more when i exposed some soft lead at the tip, it took things to the next level of violent expansion.

[lup]

Have you tried pushing 9mm Luger brass through a push through sizer and using that as your jacket? You'll still need to trim.

Alternately try Bob Sauter and see if he can make you some heavy jackets in the thickness and length you need.

LUP

[ReloaderFred]

I haven't tried sizing down 9mm brass, but may try sizing down .380 brass for a jacket. The .32 acp brass I have weigh an average of 40 grains, so a 75 grain core makes the weight I need. I may have to cast some harder alloy for cores and see how that works.

I don't know who Bob Sauter is. Can you provide contact information for him? That may be another way to go.

Thanks to all who have contributed so far.

Fred

[rbt50]

i would try copper tubing ,i use it in 50 bmg bullets and it holds up well.

[ReloaderFred]

I think the copper tubing is certainly a way to go. I just need to find out what the process is for forming the jackets from the tubing.

Fred

[bullet maker 57]

Since you have a Corbin press,I know Corbin makes tubing jacket maker kits. You might also try Richard Corbin. He makes dies that will work in Dave Corbin's presses.

[MIBULLETS]

What length jacket do you think you need if tubing was used?

[ReloaderFred]

I'm hoping I won't have to buy any additional dies, since I've got about a dozen sets of CH4D and Corbin in various calibers. I would be willing to buy one additional die for copper tubing, if necessary, but I'd like to keep any additional monetary outlay to a minimum, if possible.

The .32 acp case is just about ideal for making the 115 gr. bullet with a 75 grain core. I'm assuming the copper tubing would have to be just a little bit longer to fold over the base. My thought is since this is such a hot cartridge, the base will have to be enclosed to keep from blowing the core right through the jacket, if the jacket is open at the nose. I may, or may not, be correct in this assumption, but with the velocity so high, the friction against the outside of the jacket may just be enough to let the core slip, and the formed nose wouldn't be strong enough to hold it in place. At least that's my thought. Bonding the core in the jacket would be difficult with both ends of the jacket open.

I'll take some measurements a little later and let you know the length of tubing I think I'll need.

Thanks again for all the input.

Happy New Year!

Fred

[Reload3006]

I make 30 caliber copper tubing jacketed bullets. I would imagine a 180 gr 30 caliber bullet flying at 2600fps is about as high a pressure as your pistol round is going to generate and have not had an issue with core coming out of the jacket. I suppose anything is possible but highly unlikely. Copper tubing is softer than commercial jackets however but it is thicker. It will expand readily. If your having problems with to rapid of expansion then My best advice would be to use a commercial jacket or copper tubing but do not use pure lead. Unless your dies will not handle the harder stuff. A 92%PB 6%Sb and 2%Sn will give you a very tough core and will slow expansion down considerably. If you are really concerned with loosing the core then use plumbers flux and melt the core in your jacket or tubing jacket before core seat. I highly recommend you wash them thoroughly before you core seat and point form them after wash and give your dies a wd40 bath to prevent the salts from the flux from rusting your dies. I almost guarantee that you will have a very tough bullet that will handle rifle velocities with out coming apart.

[ReloaderFred]

The bullets that have practically disentegrated upon impact have been Winchester 115 grain FMJ commercial bullets. The jacket is pretty thin, and the core appears to be pure lead, so they're pretty fragile, especially for my application. I'm going to try some harder cores in the .32 acp brass and see how that works. If it looks promising, then I'll run a batch through my ceramics kiln with the cores in place. They will come out tightly bonded, without the use of flux. At least that's been my experience with the other calibers I've done that way.

If that doesn't work, then I'll be trying copper tubing next.

Thanks again,

Fred

[MIBULLETS]

I make tubing jackets for 35 caliber rifle. No problems with shooting the core out even with a 1/8" hole in the base. At velocities around 2400fps I have good hunting expansion. At 1600fps, I doubt you will have any issues even with pure lead as long as the bullet tip is not too wide. The jacket is softer than comercial jackets but they are about twice as thick. I use type "L" tubing with .030" walls. The thickness and the size of the opening in the bullet tip can control expansion quite a bit. You can use harder lead and it will make a difference, but I use pure lead in mine without any problems.

[lup]

Specialty Projectiles for Small Arms
Custom Produced by:
Northwest Custom Projectile
Robert R. Sauter (AKA BULLET BOB)
P.O. Box 127
Butte,Montana 59703
406-723-8683
http://www.customprojectile.com

[ReloaderFred]

lup,

Thank you for the information. I experimented a little this afternoon with swaging .32 acp cases and BHN14 cores backwards, with the base of the case forming the nose. I believe with a little more tweaking, this may work, but the proof will be in the firing. I wasn't able to get the nose of the swaged bullet down as small as I wanted, but I'm going to fiddle with it some more tomorrow.

Happy New Year!

Fred

[I'll Make Mine]

Ummm, Lup? That link goes to what looks like a Chinese (or possibly other Asian) language site; based on format (since the characters don't even display on my system -- no Asian language character sets loaded), it looks like a "mistype capture" or "domain squat" type page.

A quick search indicates Bullet Bob's web site may be down, possibly the domain expired. Is he a site sponsor here, perhaps?

[ReloaderFred]

I got the same thing from both the link and a search. The characters look Korean to me, but I'm an amateur when it comes to languages.

Happy New Year!

Fred