Ross .303 Model 10

[Boz330]

I found one of these in a local gun shop this morning. I have always heard they were very accurate rifles but know nothing about them. This one appeared to be in very good condition. They were asking $379 for it. Is that a good price? Any info to expand my knowledge would be appreciated. Thanks.

Bob

[gew98]

I had a Mk2 and a Mk3 some years back. Both had the 'relieved' chambers to lessen the chance of stuck cases experianced in trench warfare and rapid firing. With such chambers they pretty much ruined the brass.... almost seemed to me necksizing would'nt have worked at how blown out the necks got.
Pre- WW1 the Ross rifles were target range darlings ( like the 1903 Spgfld ) but lacked any measure to survive as a combat rifle.

[Boz330]

I had a Mk2 and a Mk3 some years back. Both had the 'relieved' chambers to lessen the chance of stuck cases experianced in trench warfare and rapid firing. With such chambers they pretty much ruined the brass.... almost seemed to me necksizing would'nt have worked at how blown out the necks got.
Pre- WW1 the Ross rifles were target range darlings ( like the 1903 Spgfld ) but lacked any measure to survive as a combat rifle.

Can you tell if the chamber has been relieved by looking at it?

Bob

[BruceB]

At that price ($379) in good condition, I'd jump on it.

At the very least, it offers an interesting study subject, and it's also an historical artifact. RCBS used to offer a service that created custom sizing dies, based on three fired cases from a specific rifle's chamber. They cut a custom .303 sizer for my .303 BREN machinegun nwhich helped case life a good bit. I don't know if they still perform this service, but it would be worth asking.

My paternal grandfather went to France with the Canadian Army in 1915, carrying a Ross rifle. For the reasons already expressed, he traded it for a #1 Mk illl as soon as he could...as did most of his buddies. For non-combat use, though, they are a rather neat rifle.

[rmark]

The bolt on the 1910 model rifles could be assembled incorrectly, allowing the gun to be fired with an unlocked bolt. Years ago I had both a military 1905 in .303 and a commercial 1910 in .280 Ross. The 1905 I fired, the 1910 I just looked at.

[hornady308]

I used to have one with the relieved chamber. Brass would come out looking like it would fit a .348 Winchester. I reloaded my ammo for the Ross and it was an accurate rifle, but don't expect the brass to last many loadings. I would definitely anneal after each firing. For $380, I would jump on it as long as Bubba hasn't done anything to it.

[Harry O]

I have a 1905 version of the Ross and a copy of the book "The Ross Rifle Story" (475 pages). According to the book, there were three sizes of enlarged chambered that were tried in order to get away from the jamming problem, each one larger than the last. Some of the guns were enlarged more than once. Mine has the largest enlarged chamber. I have tried several ways to reload the case, but without custom dies, I don't think it is possible. The custom dies cost more than the rifle is worth.

Anyway, the Ross got its reputation for accuracy BEFORE the chambers were hogged out (pre-WWI). I have found nothing that indicates it was accurate AFTER they were hogged out. Also, every single Ross rifle I have looked at through the years has a rough bore (some worse than others, admittedly). They were used with corrosive ammunition, after all. The accuracy of mine is about the same as a SMLE. OK, but nothing outstanding.

Interestingly (according to the book), the actual problem with jamming was not the size of the chamber. It was traced to English .303 cartridges that did not meet standard tolerances. Evidently, the British were making a lot of oversized brass during the war. It was a combination of larger brass and a lack of camming power with the straight-pull rifle that caused the problem. The SMLE did not have a problem with camming power.

The 1910 Model bolt could be assembled wrong and it led to a number of injuries. It would appear to close, but would not lock. When fired, the bolt would come flying out the rear. They were later modified with a rivet on the bolt that made it impossible to assemble it wrong. All of the ones at the rear were modified, but modifications on the ones at the front were hit and miss. If yours does not have the rivet, be VERY careful.

[Larry Gibson]

I've a 1910 Ross that was sporterized for resale. It is a very accurate rifle and I do reload both cast and jacketed for it. I mostly NS so the "oversized" chamber isn't really a bother and case life is excellent. Mine has the altered bolt and I've not been able to assenble it wrong even when trying. Since I don't shoot it in muddy trenches I leave the bolt assembled. I seldon disassemble any of my misurp bolts for cleaning anyways. The .303 can be loaded to some pretty impressive velocities even when the psi is kept at or under 55,000 psi (yes I do measure the psi in this rifle). I would jump on the rifle for that price, especially if the bore is good.

Larry Gibson

[Multigunner]

Can you tell if the chamber has been relieved by looking at it?

Bob

Look for an 'LC' marking stamped somewhere over or near the chamber.

I've seen images of fired cases that suggest that several very different types of "enlarging reamers" were tried on the Ross rifles. A standardized enlarging reamer was developed for the SMLE.
Some No.4 rifle chambers have very odd profile at the shoulder, the shoulder being hemispherical. This may be due to a problem with over torqing of the barrel rather than deliberate enlarging. According to Reynolds barrels not properly trimed and underclocked at the proper degree before clocking in required such force that stress lines formed at the front of the chamber. On firing the chamber stretched at the shoulder.

[zuke]

The Ross Rifle was also rated to 22 ton's per square inch.
A lot stronger then anything in it's time or even present day rifle's.

[gew98]

The Ross Rifle was also rated to 22 ton's per square inch.
A lot stronger then anything in it's time or even present day rifle's.

Z ; I have seen several and owned one Ross that exibited cracks to the receiver and bolt. 22 tons or not... not my choice... about as dangerous & delicate as a pre nickel steel 1903 rifle that.

[zuke]

Z ; I have seen several and owned one Ross that exibited cracks to the receiver and bolt. 22 tons or not... not my choice... about as dangerous & delicate as a pre nickel steel 1903 rifle that.

Musta been really abused.
Have any pic's?

[bart55]

I also have one that was sporterized with flip type safari sights and a cut down stock but it does shoot well, I generally use my older brass (had alot of it ) and didnt worry about the relieved chamber, that and alot of surplus ammo berdan primed , I am going to try reloading some of the blown out brass and see how long it takes to go souith . They are neat rifles though

[gew98]

Musta been really abused.
Have any pic's?

Not really abused at all. Two were cracked at the bolt stop on the receiver and one had cracks on the bolt itself at the base of the lugs. No pics as this was before the day of digital cameras.

[Four Fingers of Death]

My understanding of the chamber enlarging is this:

Marked with an E means it came from the factory with enlarged chamber. Initially increased to .462" then .464" when some ammo didn't work.

Marked with an N for normal,large chamber, increased to .462"

Marked with an LC for large chamber. Converted in the field to .462"

Mine has an interesting history. 'The Armoury' a gunshop in Sydney that specialised in milsurprifles and general military surplus (cool shop,the guys all wore Aussie or British Navy summer uniforms (whites) imported 20 or so Ross rifles in the early 80s. When they arrived they turned out to be DP'd or drill purpose. The rifles appeared to be fully operational and intact and upon close inspection, it was revealed that the barrels had been removed and drilled through less than a quarter inch into the chamber. The gunsmith who I met many years later on, pulled the barrels, re cut the threads and chambers and refitted the rescued barrels. He then shortened the wood a quarter inch to match the slightly shorter barrel. UNless you took a tape to it you would thing it 100%. To prove they were ok, all of the staff hit the old Anzac Range in Malabar in Sydney and shot the pants off every one at the shoot. They sold most of the rifles that weekend. The armourer who DP'd them obviously didn't relish destroying them and set them up so that they could be easily rescued.

Mine had been used as a regular weekend Military Target match rifle for several years and the barrel is still in good condition. It looks like sin, but is an accurate rifle. I have only fired milsurp ammo in it and it was a bit stiff to open, but otherwise ok. The 280Ross round for which it was designed, was around 7mm Remington Magnum in power, the shank of the barrel is huge.

Even though I knew the history of the rifle, I placed it in a rest, covered it with a big old piece of carpet and depressed the trigger with my brass pickerupperer. No problems.

I think it will respond to some cast boolit loads.

The cracks mentioned above may have been caused by battlefield measures to open the bolt with lumps of wood and hammers, etc.

It is easy to check the bolt is assembled correctly. As you close the bolt, the lugs will turn and lock in. If you look along the RHS of the bolt from the rear, you will see the lugs turn. If you don't see the lugs turn and lock in, stop and check it. I think you would have to be some special kind of stupid to assemble it incorrectly. I'm a bit of an unco and didn't have any problem when I found out how to operate the rifle. Check out GunGeek on You Tube. He mumbles his way through the videos and swills beer, but shows you how to operate the rifle.

I like mine and don't plan on selling it anytime soon (mind you, I have a K31 and a Steyer95, so an offer around a thousand dollars would get it off me. The further away from Canada you are, the more these are worth.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Military%20shooting/22538d01.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Military%20shooting/RossMk111303CanadianServiceRifle1.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Military%20shooting/22538d01-2.jpg

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