Best .357 mag boolit mould for a beginner

[JWFilips]

Hi all It's just me again asking more advise:
I'm really getting the bug to start casting myself Just finished reading all of "from Ingot to Target" absolutly fascinating book. If & when I do start I would like to get my first mould for my two S&W revolvers ( A pre-27 & a 19-3) Since I do mostly paper punching at 25 yards I would like it to be a boolit I could load light for accurate target work at 25 (& maybe 50 yards if I get ambitious) also if it could bring down small game critters that would be go too. Since my pre-27 has .359" throats I would like it to cast larger then .358" so more like .359"-.360"
I heard some moulds can be shot as cast which would be ideal but if I had to size I would most likely start with an inexpensive Lee sizer for my reloading press for now.

Can anyone recommend a bullet style and brand of mould that would meet my criteria above? Please keep in mind I have never cast a modern bullet ( But plenty of round ball by the campfire) so I'm totally lost when it comes to all those bullet numbers that folks rattle off. I'm learning but it is a slow process ( & maybe some day I would love to cast Elmer Keith's Ideal 358439! that is one I will remember) Also I will be starting out casting on a tight budget ( until this economy improves)

So For now I'm find myself "Cast boolit challenged" but I'm working on a cure (with all your help)
Thanks

[rintinglen]

I like the RCBS 38-150 SWC or the 358-477 Lyman, both are 150 odd grain SWC's with short enough noses to function well in your older Magnum, and either will work in the model 19. I am sure someone will leap up and mention the 358-429 that Elmer Keith Designed, but it is not a good choice for the short-cylinder .357, at least not in magnum brass. The Lee Sizer will work just fine and you can tumble lube ANY boolit, not just the tumble lube designs. Although many will suggest Lee molds, I find them better suited to the more experienced caster than for the novice. It takes some experience to force yourself to cast fast enough to keep those aluminum boogers running hot enough to get good boolits. However, once you get the hang of it, you can pile up good boolits in a hurry, but you can't stop and smell the roses (or check out the neat boolits you just cast) along the way.

[fecmech]

There are so many good designs for the .357, I started with the Lyman 358429 "Keith" and a wadcutter myself. That said for what you want to do I would highly recommend the Lee 158 tumble lube SWC to start. It's kind of an ugly duckling but shoots well for me in 3 rifles and 3 pistols and I shoot unsized at .359 in all and lubed with 45-45-10. I would have never bought this mold or tumble lubed but a buddy gave it to me and it has become one of my favorites and a real eye opener. For real heavy accurate magnum loads it's hard to beat 358429 and 296/H110 but the lee TLSWC is a better .38 bullet and just a great all around cast,lube, shoot bullet. Good luck whatever you choose.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I have been loading the tumble lube 158 grain round nose for my model 19 and model 27 257 have also used a 158 grain swc non tumble lube design another lee mould , both shoot well and no issues as to fit , lee also makes a round flat design that I plan on trying

[SCIBUL]

The round flat design is fine, but the lubing groove is a little swallow. It shoots very well indeed. I also have the tumble rn design, the keith one and the rcbs swc. The last one is my favorite with hot loads in my 27 and blackhawk.

[SP5315]

The lee TL358-158-SWC sounds like it would be a good fit for what your looking to do. I don't have many lee molds. I ended up with this one through a trade and gave it a go. They cast with my alloy between .3585 and .3590. They shot fine, but I'm not a big fan of tumble lubing. My favorite mold for my 357's is an old Lyman 357443 4 banger. The Lyman drops these at .3590. I have found these to be very accurate in my S&W 28, 19, and 686.

[**oneshot**]

pm sent

[Boolseye]

I will suggest the Lee 148 grain wadcutter. I have the non-tumble lube version, 2-cavity, which drops at about .360.

Another nice boolit is the TL358-158SWC, already mentioned. I have a six-cav of this one and I love it. I load it from 750 to 1000 fps. Both of these I shoot out of my S&W 66 .357.

Both of these bullets are extremely accurate.

[MtGun44]

While the Keith 358429 is a wonderful design, most versions of it will NOT work
in a S&W N-frame .357 due to the short cylinder, unless you seat deep and
crimp above the crimp groove. I strongly recommend the 358477 or RCBS
38-150-K, now called 38-150-SWC which is nearly identical the the 358477.

Size to throat diam or throat +.001" and lube with a known good lube like
NRA 50-50 or LBT soft blue (others are known) and you should do well.

Bill

[JWFilips]

Would any one know who is selling the new updated versions of these Lee molds at this time?
I noticed that Midway was out of stock but expecting more soon & I wonder if it will be the new improved version with the improved alignment pins Also has anyone had experiences with the custom version of these Lee moulds that hollowpoint.com is selling that are HP'ed Or are these a no no for a beginner

[LUCKYDAWG13]

358477 works great in my 686 with 13.5 gr of 2400

[fecmech]

Would any one know who is selling the new updated versions of these Lee molds at this time?
I noticed that Midway was out of stock but expecting more soon & I wonder if it will be the new improved version with the improved alignment pins Also has anyone had experiences with the custom version of these Lee moulds that hollowpoint.com is selling that are HP'ed Or are these a no no for a beginner

I would recommend starting with just plain old solid molds. Mold and alloy temperature are important to good bullets and as a beginner you will have your hands full maintaining a good pace to keep temps even for good fill out. I think you would be better off to keep it simple till you can make good quality solid bullets. By then you will have some experience and at that time add in the additional steps required for HP molds. You need to be able to walk before you run.

[Ben]

I"ll go with Bill and the others...........the 358477
is very versatile and is super accurate. The 477'
would be a great mold for a beginner ( or seasoned
veteran ) in the 357 Mag.

Ben

[GP100man]

I`ll throw in with the 477 & the Lee 158rnfp . The Lee is easy to get to temp & to cast with , the only drawback for the lee is it has a small bevel on the base whereas the 477 is flat .

[GLL]

If I were starting all over again and casting for my Model 27s I would also choose the RCBS 38-150-SWC.
These are well made iron molds that cast beautiful bullets quite easily. The latest examples are especially nice !

Jerry

[MT Gianni]

I am another in favor of the 358477 or 150 RCBS. If that bullet will not shoot in a 38 over a book load of unique the problem is not the load.

[Alchemist]

+1 for the RCBS 38-150 SWC. That was the 2nd mould I bought when I started casting. Works well for 38 Spl plinkers to 357 stiff loads. IIRC, NOE did a group buy run for this style boolit a while back. Perhaps it is in stock...and NOE moulds run to the size they state, usually .360 for the 38 cal pistol moulds. Plus they come with the correct nose punch, and cast like a dream.

[DrCaveman]

I had a pretty easy time getting the lee 158 rnfp running nicely at full-tilt loads. As mentioned above, the lube groove is pretty shallow but it seems to be adequate for me when using Darr lube. Seating depth (and resultant oal) is favorable for your m27 and the holes punched in paper are pretty clean.

Its got a heck of a meplat (good for hunting and general tissue damage) and a decent BC for longer range... Say 50-75 yds. Or longer for those who dabble but I use rifles beyond 50 yds.

I size them to 358 with lee push through and they work great in my 19-3 and ruger gp100. About 14 gr 2400 has been my favorite though the h110 loads showed promise.

I personally like the beveled base for ease of fast reloading. I suppose I am not quite a good enough shooter to notice any inherent difference, but my guess is that we are probably talking about 3/4" accuracy difference at 25 yds. Minor.

Hope that helps. If you go the lee route (new or 'old') I recommend lee-menting. At least polishing the cavities.

[rsrocket1]

I bought the Lee 358-158-RF 6 cavity mold and love it. Using 6 cavity molds with a 4-20 bottom pour produces lots of nice boolits in a very short amount of time. I tumble lube with Recluse's 45/45/10 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?67654-Tumble-Lubing-Made-Easy-amp-Mess-Free) and load them up unsized with anywhere from 2.5g Clays in a .38 case for 650 fps powder puff load when teaching my kids to shoot up to 8g Power Pistol for 1160 fps "big bang" loads (Ruger Service Six 4" barrel).

Here is a picture of the bullet as cast and after tumble lubed. I used too much lube the first time and it pooled in the lube groove, you only need enough to put a light amber haze on the boolit. Anyway, it shows the nice big metplat of the boolit.
57166

[JWFilips]

Wow, You Guys are great. So much good information. From what I can see by these post at least I'm thinking the same way. The only name I'm unfamiliar with is NOE How do I contact them?

Once I settle on my first mould all I guess I would need is a good source for pure lead since I have a bunch of 50/50 ingots here to blend in.
I have seen some guys on e-bay selling pure lead Are those guys on e-bay ok or Will I get ripped off? Is there a better source? I do have a bunch of pure lead drain pipe I got from an old 1800's farm house. Has a lot of white corrosion on the insides I guess that will float up in the dross?
Thank you all
& Happy New Year
Jim

[Alchemist]

Night Owl Enterprises (NOE) is one of our vendor sponsors. The group buy mould I referred to before is available from them. http://noebulletmolds.com/orders/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=193

Yeah, they cost more than Lee moulds do, but they work great and will never be undersized.

When you melt down your old pipe, make sure you put it in a cold pot and bring it up to temperature. DO NOT add it to already melted lead. That lead oxide (white powdery stuff) can hold moisture, which will escape slowly if heated from cold...but will escape violently if added to hot metal. One visit from the tinsel fairy will make a believer of anyone! Be safe and have fun.

HTH

[JWFilips]

Night Owl Enterprises (NOE) is one of our vendor sponsors. The group buy mould I referred to before is available from them. http://noebulletmolds.com/orders/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=193

Yeah, they cost more than Lee moulds do, but they work great and will never be undersized.

When you melt down your old pipe, make sure you put it in a cold pot and bring it up to temperature. DO NOT add it to already melted lead. That lead oxide (white powdery stuff) can hold moisture, which will escape slowly if heated from cold...but will escape violently if added to hot metal. One visit from the tinsel fairy will make a believer of anyone! Be safe and have fun.

HTH

Thank You for the information I will check them out.

If I have a 50/50 mix already (Tin& Lead) how much pure lead do I need to mix in to get a good shooting mix?

[Blammer]

wow! that 50/50 tin lead has WAY too much tin in it.

you only really need about 1-2% tin

there is a calculator around here somewhere for figuring out what to add to what mix to get what you want.

Anyone? is it in the stickies or cast boolit notes?

NOE's 160gr PB mould is a good one too.

[dragon813gt]

It's in the stickies. I think in the Lead forum. Here is a link: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?105952-Lead-alloy-calculators

[44man]

Wow, You Guys are great. So much good information. From what I can see by these post at least I'm thinking the same way. The only name I'm unfamiliar with is NOE How do I contact them?

Once I settle on my first mould all I guess I would need is a good source for pure lead since I have a bunch of 50/50 ingots here to blend in.
I have seen some guys on e-bay selling pure lead Are those guys on e-bay ok or Will I get ripped off? Is there a better source? I do have a bunch of pure lead drain pipe I got from an old 1800's farm house. Has a lot of white corrosion on the insides I guess that will float up in the dross?
Thank you all
& Happy New Year
Jim
Long ago I had some .357's, so long ago I walked in dinosaur prints I guess! :drinks: I used the 358156 HP and it was super accurate from my 27.
But unless you hunt you don't need any pure lead, just WW metal. Use the 50-50 as is too and it helps to oven harden them for accuracy without affecting expansion, expansion you don't need if target shooting.

[happy7]

I'll add my two cents worth. No doubt the RCBS and Lyman 358477 are great molds. I especially like the 358477. It is just a great all around bullet. But by the time you buy either of these molds plus handles, your are going to have spent almost three times as much as for a six cavity Lee and handles, and WAY more than the two cavity Lee. If budget, as you said, is really important, go with the Lee. The tumble lube designs are specifically designed to work with the Lee sizing system, and ideally will not need to be sized at all. Now, you can tumble lube the other bullets also, but if you are planning on tumble lubing anyway, why not get a tumble lube bullet design.

If you are really economy minded, get the Lee two cavity, but call the vendor and make sure it is the new Lee with the alignment pins. If you time matters to you, do yourself a favor and get the six cavity. It is very quick to cast with. Not only the fact that it is six cavities, but it is light and nimble and the extra handle on the sprue plate all speed things up. I cast a lot, more than most people, and IMHO a Lee six cavity is one of the easiest molds to cast with.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Consider a full wadcutter. Here's why. Most of them (theres a lot out there) have lots of bearing surface for their weight which means they grab riflings well, even when cast soft. They can be seated flush with the case mouth or seated sticking out. The full meplat means they hit critters and vermon hard. They have lots of lube grooves, which don't all have to be used, and can be shot to high velocity, usually higher than other designs before they lead (assuming fit and alloy are correct). They can be tumble lubed and have great results in the 800 fps .38s. And best of all, you can find used 4 cavity older (better) Lymans cheaper than other designs b/c some folks 1. don't like the looks of the finished cartridge, 2. they don't load as easily from a speed loader, 3. some folks see them hook their trajectory about 100 yds (I haven't seen this phenomenon yet).
Get what makes you happy, but I find my 3 wadcutters were all super bargins, shoot great, cast great and are my defensive boolits.

[happy7]

Shoestring makes a good point. Used wadcutter molds always sell well under the cost of a similar non wadcutter mold.

[gefiltephish]

For use in a 686 and 64, I just ordered this in 5 cav aluminum from Accurate Molds http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=36-160H-D.png This will be my 4th from Tom. All are excellent quality and great molds to work with.

[JWFilips]

Well I found the calculator What a great asset to this site!
However I'm puzzled in using it....on the bottom area for "mixed alloy" I see you can plug in your own numbers to make a custom mix however even if I put in an above listed mix for instance 40% tin 60 % lead the hardness doesn't match the hardness on this chart 's "line 18" that line reads 15
but calculated on the bottom I come up with 20.2?
Am I doing something wrong?

[Petrol & Powder]

Back to the original post - I'm fairly new to casting but not so new to the general the art of the gun. I'll toss in my approval of the RCBS 38-150 SWC mold. It was recommended by others on this forum and I'm very happy with it. By the Way, those two S&W revolvers you have are great guns! Have fun and keep those old Smith's alive.

[GP100man]

Look at it this way , melt 1 # of 50/50 , add 1 # of pure your now at 25% tin & 75% lead , another # of pure & your at 12.5% tin & 87.5% lead , 1 more # of pure & your at an acceptable level 6.25%

I usually try for 4% ,above that & you`ll see a bit of tin wash in the barrel & think it`s leading ! but it ain`t & won`t affect accuracy (at least not mine that I could tell) & hi tin makes the boolit tuffer so the bhn to pressure charts are no good . In my exp hi tin boolits that fit good will do anything I need em to as per caliber .

Now what`s so hard bout that ??? some/alot of the tables are confusing , now lets see if ya start talkin wheel weights all bets are off because WW of late are all over the bhn chart & no consistent content ??

But if I had some WW I`d substitute a # or 2 with the 50/50 for a tad of lino.

Before blending a large batch try a mini batch & see if it`s to ya liking .


Back up fellers Beagle333 PMed me ????

& had to break out the caculator & I was wrong by 50% it`ll take 6.5# to take 1# of 50/50 to a little above 7%

As the % goes down I can`t rely on my memory anymore !!

Thanks for reminding me how old I`m gettin Beagle333 :kidding:

[JWFilips]

OK Now I figured it out! Was puttin the numbers where they ain't suppose to be!
I 'm not a spread sheet fan but can work one when I need to. Now that I got this figured out it is very simple. It really is a fantastic tool.
I tried to do it in my head but near burnt up my brain!
I guess they are right ...when lead gets into your blood you go crazy! Cause I'm getting there. Can't wait to start casting

[dragon813gt]

Adjust numbers on the calculator until you get the tin percentage down to 2%. Yes, tin will harden the bullet. But it's an expensive way to do it. You will only gain an additional .5 BHN at 4% compared to 2%. I was at 22# pure to 1# 50/50 to get 2.17% tin and 9.2 BHN.