Specific load question .380 ACP-Taurus TCP-and Lee 358 105 SWC boolit

[Sakdog]

I have come to draw from the immense reservoir of knowledge here. I have searched and have found some useful information but want to pose a very specific question

The Taurus TCP is a very tough customer and I have made it work with cast boolits, and moved to the 358-105-swc because its a 6 cav design.

Has anybody made this combo work correctly? Specifically: This design of boolit, this cartridge and most importantly this model of gun (Taurus TCP)?

My initial fact finding powderless run for COAL checking lead me to find a COAL that feeds *kind of* and chambers *barely* but the COAL is very short

I find that my TCP will eat all day with the Lee 356-102-9mm mold seated at .960", but this SWC is longer (boolit only) and I am having to seat significantly shorter with the SWC design than with the 9mm mold (even more case intrusion) . I am thinking about ditching something here.

If anyone has gotten success and would care to PM or post load data and COALs that worked in this scenario I would be eternally grateful. Otherwise I guess ill have to stick to the V-twin mold.

Anyone willing to part with a Ranch dog 6 cav .380 mold would also be my hero.

[rexherring]

I too am curious as I've loaded a few to try but haven't been out to the range to try them in my Bersa Thunder Plus.

[Sakdog]

I hear you on the Bersa, I think mine would eat these SWCs seated long with no problems, Maybe Ill just have to reserve the 102 grainers for TCP only. Thinking about trying them with the short load over top a very light load and working it up, but hopefully someone will guide me

[Gunnut 45/454]

Why are you trying to us a 38/357 mold for a 380ACP? I highly doupt it will feed in a Semi auto as that mold is ment for revolvers. Sizing them to .356 will do alot of damge to the lube grooves as well. Leaving them .358' will not chamber. You need the 356-102 -1R![smilie=1:

[gofastman]

I have.
I think my barrel slugged at .359", way to go Taurus :roll:



Otherwise I guess ill have to stick to the V-twin mold.
You could order one of Lee's "new" 2 cav blocks with the real alignment pins from their website if you wanted

[Sakdog]

Gunnut, No worries, this has been done before (this bullet in this caliber)I do agree its a bit of an odd application but the weight is right, it can be sized (don't care about the groove because I tumble lube). I know that there are a lot of people out there that load this bullet in this caliber.. What I am looking for is how short folks are taking their loadings in this combo. I would really be tickled pink if someone had success with this combo paired with this particular firearm.

I hear about the "new" 2 cavs. I really have no issue with the two cavity that I have, except that it doesn't have 4 more cavities. :)

So the question is "how low can you go"?

[Centaur 1]

I didn't have much luck with this boolit in my LCP. The cartridge was either too long to chamber or the case bulged from seating the boolit too deep. Keep looking for the Ranch Dog mold, it's my favorite mold and I use that boolit in .380, 9mm, 38 spcl and .357 mag.

[rexherring]

Have not had a problem chambering since I picked up a Lee factory crimp die. The .358 boolits after taper crimping chamber fine. Using the caliper, the case mouth on mine is the same as factory loaded rounds. The Lee 105SWC seems to cycle just fine out of the clip in mine but I haven't been to the range yet (temp is been below zero) to see if they cycle when fired.

[Gunnut 45/454]

Well if you chambers are that out of spec? I see another problem with the length of that bullet as well. Since almost all 380 ACP's are blowback designs running over pressured rounds is not a good idea but hey it's your fingers and such have fun! Do any of you own a chrony? I would hope so cause you might be surprised at what velocities are with those loads.

[fcvan]

I originally bought the Lee 358-105 SWC to shoot in a Beretta 70s .380 after reading of its use in that caliber. The 'mini HG 68' does well in every .380 I've owned or handled, including my TCP 738. I also have the 356-102 1R which runs .3585 and 105 grains cast from range lead. Since I don't have any six cavity molds there is no advantage to molding one or the other. My wife likes the 105 SWC in a J-frame and prefers the profile of the 102 1R for her Walther PK380 and her pink TCP 738. Yes pink, she wanted to get the youngest daughter to shoot more and pink got her attention.

[Sakdog]

Gunnut no one here is looking to leave the range with missing appendages! That's simply not what this thread is about. The TCP is not a "blowback" design. When a .358 lead bullet chambers it is also not necessarily a sign that the chamber is out of spec. Yes we are delving slightly into a less than kosher scenario, but I am not looking to blast off into astronaut territory here. I can size the lee 105swc boolit to .358 or .356, and I can seat it to a depth that will chamber in my TCP. The issue here is that this depth I found is indeed less than optimal both in the manner of COAL and in the manner of internal volume loss due to the base of the boolit traversing untold territories. I am in the realm that when this particular bullet is seated it causes a (slight and visible) bulge in case due to the taper... Thing is that this still chambers fine in the particular firearm that I am speaking of. This bulge in my estimation is not a huge deal because the rest of the case will be expanded to the same, or a greater diameter upon firing (this is why it chambers freely). Is not this the reason why we resize brass after it is fired; To re-size it down close to or at the SAAMI best fit scenario? So I have picked a depth that feeds (albeit dry) and seems to work. I am looking for first hand experience using this boolit, this caliber, this depth and this firearm. My bersa will take 'em long no problem, even to the point of not violating any of the COAL or case intrusion parameters...This, to me is great news but I am trying to nail down the picky habits of the 738 here with this particular boolit.

Also, While we are discussing the parameters of any given caliber for use in any given gun please refer to your owners manual. It doesn't matter the make or model but I am near certain that it shuns the use of any "reloaded ammunition" and would hold a particularly dark corner of its liability weary heart for the use of -gulp- lead boolits. I sincerely wait the day that new firearms are shipped with the lawyered up manual stating that "said firearm is intended as a dry firing aid only and it is not to be used with any real ammuntion be it reloaded or factory".. watch its coming.

I like many others am also greatly satisfied with the lee .356-102 mold. I have caused it on many an occasion to belch forth on a journey through paper and ultimately into a dirt berm much to the amusement of myself and other shooters. I would find myself vastly lacking any need of the 105SWC design if it weren't for the fact that the 356-102 is only offered in a twin cavity design (for now). This circuitous route leads me back to the original scenario:

Firearm: Taurus TCP 738 .380
Cartridge: .380 ACP
Charge: Working on it
Boolit: Lee .358-105 SWC (sized .358, or .356)
COAL: .9XX

[Paul5388]

I don't have the particular Taurus you're looking for, but I do use the "mini H&G 68" in a NAA Guardian. 3.6 gr SR4756 with a CCI 500 at .955" COAL. That COAL puts the case mouth at the bottom of driving band.

I also use that bullet in 9mm Makarov and 9mm Luger. My Makarov has a .358" barrel, but it isn't a .380. The .356" barrel of a Walther P1 doesn't really like the bullet shape and fails to feed when it fits the ramp.

My son-in-law shoots the Lee 105 gr SWC at that same COAL in his LCP without a problem. It functions in a Hi-Point 995 too, but needs a little more weight to perform well.

I am finding a lot of 9mms are actually .358" when you slug the bore instead of the assumed .356".

I don't think I've ever clocked my .380, but Lyman Cast Bullet #3 says 4.1 gr of SR 4756 is around 900 fps.

[Sakdog]

Paul5388, Good info! I am assuming that you are firing the 105swc in a 9mm case through the 995 right?

I think that for now I am going to ditch this design for use in the TCP the COAL is very short. I will stick to using this in the deeper throated .380 and reserve my 356-102 solely for the TCP. Just a shame that lee doesn't make something purpose built for .380 in 6 cav mold given the re-gained popularity of the cartridge.

[Paul5388]

Yes, it's just another application for what is supposed to be a .38 Special bullet. I don't have another suitable bullet for the .380 or the Makarov, so I use what I have. I could use a heavier bullet in the RN Lee at about 125 gr. but that's pretty heavy to function well in both of the shorter calibers.

The 995, as ugly as it is, will digest just about anything I feed it. I normally use a Lee clone of the H&G 68 in a 4595 and it just gobbles them up!

A 50/50 mix of clip on to stick on WWs performs well at the velocities the short 9mms produce.

[357shooter]

I've not gotten the 105 to work in 380's from Kel Tec, Sig or CZ. Maybe it's me, but it doesn't seem to suit the application well. I have the Ranch Dog 6 cavity I'm willing to part with, and sent a PM.

[Paul5388]

As you know, most bottom feeders are designed to shoot a FMJ RN, which is one of poorest performing shapes to use. Even the JHPs are prone to filling with clothing or collapsing inward on impact. I shot a coon out of a tree with a Remington 125 gr JHP in a 995 and had to use another shot to put it down. A lead .22 LR would probably have been more effective!

If it will function in your gun, a SWC will usually provide better terminal ballistics, especially in less powerful .38/9mm loadings, i.e. .380 .38 S&W, 9mm Largo and Makarov. Therefore, it is usually to your benefit to get something that isn't FMJ and isn't RN, so the Lee 105 SWC will usually fill the bill.

[357shooter]

For a 380 the 105 has too little nose and requires too much bullet in the case. IMHO

I don't shoot many semi-autos, the 380 being my favorite, but I prefer truncated cones with a nice meplat. I did a 90 grain custom from Lee that shoots great, even with very little bearing area. It fit the CZ really well. I'm working up a 100 grain TC to fit the slightly longer chamber in the Sig. The 90 is a custom Lee six cavity. They have stopped all custom orders, and are expensive for a custom, so I'm going to Mountain Molds. I've bought a few from Mountain Molds, in three cavity, and they are excellent.

[Paul5388]

It may be noteworthy to consider the .40 S&W uses a TC in many factory loads. That may account for its ease of transitioning from magazine to chamber. I can't argue with a TC, since it may feed better than a SWC and still have fairly decent ballistic characteristics.

[Sakdog]

Looks like I have a ranch dog mold on the way! I will hang on to the 105 SWC for now to see if it fills any particular void in my life in .357/38 or 9mm. I did load up some .380 with the 105 that will chamber properly in another .380 and are in the realm of sanity COAL-wise. I have a feeling that the Ranch dog mold will almost negate any purpose in having the 105 SWC as I could probably use it for all the same applications and conserve as much if not more Pb. It was an interesting journey nonetheless I am most thankful that the journey has lead me to this post which in turn lead me to a good deal on the RD mold that I really needed!

[JackQuest]

Gonna muddy the waters a little bit more here. Successfully feeding a pair of Ruger LCPs with a defunct NEI 109 - 2 cavity mold. Throws around 109-111 gr, was a "problem child" mold until I fitted a steel sprue plate - diagnosis indicated the mold blocks cooled too quickly! Steel sprue plate retains more heat, mold runs well. So much for a hand-me-down mold. Pic shows (l-r) Remington 88 gr HP handload seated 0.970", NEI 109 handload seated 0.951", and factory R-P Round Nose seated 0.965". All feed, cycle and shoot well considering short sight radius of the LCP. Forgot to state I size 0.3555" using a Star Progressive.

[Paul5388]

I didn't take a real pretty picture, but here's the Lee 105 gr SWC as loaded in .380 at .995" COAL.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/Paul5388/380_zps8ea9f94b.jpg

[357shooter]

Gonna muddy the waters a little bit more here. Successfully feeding a pair of Ruger LCPs with a defunct NEI 109 - 2 cavity mold. Throws around 109-111 gr, was a "problem child" mold until I fitted a steel sprue plate - diagnosis indicated the mold blocks cooled too quickly! Steel sprue plate retains more heat, mold runs well. So much for a hand-me-down mold. Pic shows (l-r) Remington 88 gr HP handload seated 0.970", NEI 109 handload seated 0.951", and factory R-P Round Nose seated 0.965". All feed, cycle and shoot well considering short sight radius of the LCP. Forgot to state I size 0.3555" using a Star Progressive.Nice looking bullets, especially the NEI. I like truncated cones for 380 in particular. On another note, I actually tried the Lee 125 RF in the 380, it wasn't all that bad. It might be worth another try. Any chance you could post the length of that NEI, maybe the length of the cone itself too? As close as you can get, it's a tough measurement to take. I guess it's about .5 in long. Thanks

[A pause for the COZ]

I have been shooting those LEE 105's out of my 738 too. Ranch dog has the Chamber specs for the 738 on his web site. It clearly is sized at .358, If they dont chamber its because the loads are too long. Once you figure out the COL thing its happy shooting.
The only issue I have with my 738 is the whimpy hammer spring. If I dont take it completely apart after every outing and clean the firring pin channel.
Its soft primer hits one after the other. Clean it and I can shoot all day. Pretty much killed it for a CC fire arm. Taurus 327 mag revolver took up that duty.
Got to be reliable 100% of the time.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/100_8311.jpg

[GunFun]

Any chance of a recommended start charge for Bullseye or Universal with this .358 105 SWC as a .380 ACP load? I'd like to do some reloading for a friend with an LCP in a couple weeks. Another acquaintance has a S&W bodyguard. I'll report back what works, but I will have a short time to get things working and tested, so some good starting numbers would save a few wasted range trips.

I'd like to know if you size it or not, (I'd prefer to shoot as cast, if I can but will buy a lee sizer if I have to.)
Start charge, max charge and where you ended up-- and the source of those numbers
C.O.L. -someone above posted .995" Is this what you are using?

I just cast up around a thousand of these and want to put them to work.

They might see some action as a lead saver in 9mm luger too.

[pt4u2nv]

I am also interested in any info on this combination as I am working on this for a Bodyguard myself. Main trouble I am seeing is I need to take the OAL to .915 to get it to chamber fully. Even at that it still touches the rifling slightly. Not ready to add powder yet until I am convinced the pressures will not be too high for this short of a cartridge. Looking for any info on how to figure what the shortest OAL I can use in the 380. Plan on trying Unique if I get that far. I am also getting slight bulging at this length but it still chambers fine manually.

[gcsteve]

Well, for a light plinking load in my TCP738, Walther PP, and Bersa Thunder 380, I use Ranch Dog's TL358-100RF bullet with 2.4 grains of Bullseye. They cycle well and have low recoil. I think the Lee 105 SWC would also work with this light load, but I don't have that mold to try it out.

[pretorian]

Hi guys! This is mi first post.
For avoid .357/358 cast bullet damagin, resize 380 ACP brass with 38 Spl. sizing die. Try and tell me!