Boolits For Original 1886 Winchester 45/70

[Hansj]

I have recently acquired an original 1886 Winchester custom rifle in 45/70 that is in 90% condition and I am putting together the components to reload for it. I am thinking of using Trail Boss, I have plenty of brass all I need to determine is what boolit sizes I will be using. I have a Lyman mold #457193 which casts a 405gr boolit, but I am afraid of having too long of a COL with such a large projectile (or compressing the charge). I know I have other molds around but have not yet found them. There is also the problem of making it too long and getting the cartridge jammed in the action (I have been warned not to do this), so does anyone have some good advice for me on this?

[Ragnarok]

I've been reloading .45-70 for a Browning 1886 this weekend/holiday myself.

I'm using a self-cast Lee 405gr LRNFPHB...this hollow-base bullet is longer than the single grease-groove 405gr plain base bullets I had been buying.

The "trail Boss" procedure is too mark your case where the base of the bullet will be. Pour powder in until it gets to the mark and weigh it...then take 70% of that amount for a minimum charge...and whatever the full amount of powder for the very top charge.

Published .45-70 405gr charges are 12gr TB to a max of 13gr TB....marking my case and seeing just how much I could put in with the longer bullet shows that I could possibly put as much as 14.2 gr of TB in my load. However..I own an ancient Trapdoor rifle...so I stick with the 13gr charge in my loads...this leaves some air-space...is mild kicking..and reasonably accurate in my Browning 1886...also comes out below published COL.

You will just have to play with it a bit...but I bet your 405gr bullet isn't any longer length than my hollowbase bullet...and should fit within COL fine.

Oh!! Trail Boss isn't supposed to be compressed in any manner...so get too greedy trying to pack more powder in! Reading about other folks experiences..TB seems to work best with some room in the load...and gets squirrely with 'max' loads.

As far as the 1886 action needing COL length rounds...it isn't so much the length of the action that will limit you...but the chamber specs..and bullet shape..as in the blunt profile bullets may collide with the rifling ahead of the chamber....the action can function with substantialy more length than .45-70 max COL

[veeman]

Not trying to be a jerk, but if you dont already have them, get a caliper and a reloading manual. That will answer most or your questions, as far as what to load and how long things need to be. :)

[Just Duke]

Slug your bore a couple inches from the breech with a pure lead bullet. Tap the bullet back out with a dowel rod.
If your lymans are to small try a SAECO bullet. If you want some PM me and I'll send you some.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
The most important item to learn first is the throat diameter. Groove will always be less (maybe the same ) as throat diameter. Lead boolits will easily squeeze down a few thousandths from throat diameter to groove diameter. You really need to start out with a full diameter boolit in the throat. Too small and boolit may tilt and for sure will not seal well.
Now a soft Boolit with BP will bump up some but there are limitations to everything.
So check out that throat diameter.. you will be surprised what old Winchester dimensions are.
Mike in ILL

[Geobru]

The 405 grain was the standard bullet in the original loads. Do some research on the powder charge. Unless your barrel is made of nickel steel, it won't hold up to modern smokeless loads. The determining factor is the speed of the bullet. Chrony your loads so they are about the same as the original black powder loads.

[Just Duke]

There is also the problem of making it too long and getting the cartridge jammed in the action (I have been warned not to do this), so does anyone have some good advice for me on this?

They use the same action for 45-90 also. ;)

[fouronesix]

There is also the problem of making it too long and getting the cartridge jammed in the action (I have been warned not to do this), so does anyone have some good advice for me on this?

There is another thread common to this one so you can check there for more info on loading 45-70 for the Win 86. The recommended cartridge OAL for the lever gun 45-70 is 2.55". That length is listed in reloading manuals for a reason. You can go a little longer but as you approach the max 86 action length of about 2.88" you'll likely run into herky jerky chambering and/or jamming. The range of bullets for the Win 86 45-70 went from about 200 grains to 500 grains. The most common were 300, 330 and 405. Use the RCBS 300 FN GC or the RCBS 405 FN GC, crimp lightly in the crimp groove, load to trapdoor ballistics and have a reliable, accurate shooter.