What is up with the model 99

[starmac]

For years these were basically treated like the red headed step child. The prices of them were somewhat stagnant for quite a few years and they sit on gun store racks forever. The last few years the prices have started creeping up to the point of some of them getting downright expensive.

I watch several local classisified adds pretty much daily, and it seems like the last few months there are always wanted to buy adds for them, what is up with that.

[BruceB]

In the recent past I have handled a variety of 99s in very nice condition on the "used" racks, Some even had 'period' scopes mounted.

The prices were around $400-500, and most were in .300 Savage caliber. I was sorely tempted on at least three occasions, but I have enough .30-caliber rifles..... the 99 is still a very nice rifle, though. For a young hunter just starting out, these 99s would make excellent beginning rifles for a hunting career... and pretty danged good for one's ENTIRE hunting career for animals up to elk size.

[alrighty]

I agree the 99 seems to have gained a recent popularity.The going price seems to be in the $400.00 up range.I see the same trend for all lever guns recently.I remember when you could go to any gun store and find countless Winchester 94's for $200.00-250.00 range.Now they seem to bring $300.00 for well used examples.
Funny story ,when I was just starting my apprenticeship in machine shop around 1985-86.My foreman was always setting up a table at a large flea market.He would search every classified paper looking for anything he though he could re-sale and make a dollar on.
One morning he came in in a great mood , very uncommon as most times he was getting over his usual weekend hangover.I asked what he done this weekend.He stated he had sold several items and made some decent money.He went on to tell me about how he made $35.00 on a 30-30 single shot.Me being a gun guy I had to know more.He stated the he had found a Savage lever action single shot for $115.00 in the peddler paper on Friday.The widow was trying to sell some items that her husband had left her. He sold the same rifle Saturday at the flea-market for $140.00.
Bobby, my foreman was a helluva machinist , especially on the Bridgeport.However he knew absolutely nothing about guns.I told him that I had never seen a lever action Savage single shot rifle , only shotguns.I asked him what model it was? 99 he stated with a smile.I explained about the rotary magazine and also told him what the true value of the rifle was.In less than 10 minutes he went from Mr. Happy to good ole pissed off Bobby.

[richhodg66]

They're fine rifles. I love mine. Wish I had bought all the cheap ones I used to see.

[Ragnarok]

I never liked the Savage 99 myself. They are superb rifles. My father was a big fan..owning a cool .300 Savage chambered model. I had owned a Model 99R in .308..however good the rifles were..I just never connected with them.

[TNsailorman]

The problem with 99's is that the prices are going up and the spare parts available is declining fast. The magazine parts are becoming as endangered as dinosaurs. I love them and have owned several but probably will never own another because of the unavailablility of parts. The last one I owned needed the magazine rotary spool replaced(some bubba had been using pliers on it) and there were none to be had that I could find. I finally sold it as a parts gun for a lot less than I paid for it. james

[Ed in North Texas]

Sort of like most firearms - some love them, some hate them and some don't care one way or the other.

My youngest son (well over 30) shot my new to me 99DL in .308 a couple of weeks ago. Yesterday he commented that he really liked it. He's no newbie and has shot ARs, M1s, various bolt guns and Marlins. This is the first time he's said he really liked shooting one (but he's not rushing out to buy one, he's a bit short on cash from buying an M-44 Mosin and a couple cases of ammo this month - plus Christmas shopping for others).

Ed

[OverMax]

I believe the cost rise can be contributed to web sites similar to this one. 20 yrs ago you could buy a pretty decent used 99 for around 75-$150.00. Winchesters 94s were near the same in price and a Marlin 336 could be had for 50-$75.00. Seems like the more these older lever rifles are written about and made re-popular. Stands to reason their prices rise in the local gun shops. As far as I believe. The 300 Savage model 99 has never been a "Red Headed Step Child."per'say. Its always been a Foster Child. i.e. Loved by a few. But never wanted by many.

[Guesser]

My one and only "99" is a 1936 vintage 20" solid frame, round barrel carbine in 30-30. Shot for shot with identical ammunition it will out shoot all the Marlin 93's, 36's and 336's and Winchester 94's I have ever owned. The W's and M's have all been traded, sold, or squandered some way; but the Savage is still here.

[starmac]

Don't get me wrong, I have owned one most of my life, and my son has been wanting it all his life, but knows he doesn't get it until I am gone from this world.

The last few months, there is always at least one want to buy add for them in at least one of the classifieds here. It is just something I have never really noticed before.
I don't have a clue how many miles I have carried mine, but it is by far the handiest (most comfortable) rifle to carry that I have ever owned.

[Ed in North Texas]

I believe the cost rise can be contributed to web sites similar to this one. 20 yrs ago you could buy a pretty decent used 99 for around 75-$150.00. Winchesters 94s were near the same in price and a Marlin 336 could be had for 50-$75.00. Seems like the more these older lever rifles are written about and made re-popular. Stands to reason their prices rise in the local gun shops. As far as I believe. The 300 Savage model 99 has never been a "Red Headed Step Child."per'say. Its always been a Foster Child. i.e. Loved by a few. But never wanted by many.

I'm reminded of the comparison made years ago between the Colt SAA and the US $20 Double Eagle. In the 1870s you could buy a new SAA for one Double Eagle. Today you can buy a new SAA for that same Double Eagle (or immediately thereabouts).

I certainly can't attribute price increases to any website (well, standard capacity magazine listings on auction sites would be a current exclusion). I bought my first 8mm 98 action Mauser for $8.00. I bought an 1891 Argentine Cavalry in Monkey Wards for $16.00 and a Stevens double 12 gauge @ under $100, etc. You won't find those prices today, and it isn't because of websites.

Mostly the problem for prices across the board is the money isn't worth spit today in comparison to any decade before 2000. In 1968 I was looking at new Ford 1/2 ton pickups with a "sticker" price of $1800.00 (needless to say there was no way I'd pay that sort of price, who pays "sticker" price?). New 1985 Ford Escort Diesel for my commute (100 miles/day - 47 mpg @ 65mph, 51.5 mpg @ 55mph) under $6,000.00 including TT&L. Priced P/Us and cars recently? Those prices aren't because of websites either.

Here in TX, 20 years ago, prices on 99s were a lot higher than you cite. That's the result of availability, there were just not that many 99s here compared to other parts of the country. And that is a factor in the current prices for 99s today. If there were new 99s on the shelves, used ones would likely not bring the kind of prices they do. But the cost of production for the 99 got too expensive to continue making them. Supply and demand works, regardless of what politicians tell us.

Ed

[gnoahhh]

Price increases for Savages was inevitable as more and more people woke up to the fact that they were the best lever gun ever made. Period.

[starmac]

I am not so much talking about price increases, but more the demand for them. The two does go hand in hand though.

I have never before noticed many want to buy adds for them, and am now seeing them pretty much all the time.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

A friend of mine has been collecting 99's for as long as I've known him.
He has a goal, to own one of each caliber ever made. Last I knew he had
3 to go. I don't know which ones though

[richhodg66]

Price increases for Savages was inevitable as more and more people woke up to the fact that they were the best lever gun ever made. Period.

I'm coming to that conclusion too. I have an old Marlin in .35 and a standard Winchester '94 and like both (oh, forgot a '60s vintage 336 in .30-30 I haven't worked with much yet). I like 'em all, but those '99s are the best of them.

[madsenshooter]

Some of the 99 collector types have some deep pockets I've found, and they're quite competitive. I always keep an eye out for receiver sights and period correct scope mounts for the 99 when at a gunshow. An example would be Savage brand quick release mounts and rings. They were nothing more than Lyman Tru-Lock mounts and rings with Savage roll marked on the rings, but brought me near $100. Some of the collectors have older models that weren't drilled and tapped, and of course they don't want to drill and tap them. Stith scope mounts will bring over $100, and I have seen a Miller Kodiak Dreamount, which looks like the Brooklyn Bridge sitting atop your rifle, bring over $400. I only have 4 of them, which I'll cut loose of in time of need. Here's a pic of the Dreamount on a Krag.

[gandydancer]

Has any one on here ever seen a 99 saddle ring carbine in 303 savage? I seen about 30 of them in one gun shop in upper state new york in 1997 all where in 303 cal saddle ring carbines any where's from $285. to $325. and I never brought one. what a DA. GD PS I have never seen another one sense.

[Guesser]

I am related to the owner of a "saddle ring" 303 Savage Model 1899, 20" Octagon barrel, perch belly straight grip butt stock, schnabel style forstock with more time in a saddle scabbard than any rifle I have ever known of. It was purchased new by a trapper and gov't hunter and sold to a cattle association drift fence rider and finally to my relative in about 1957 or so. It has taken more elk, moose, black bear, coyotes, and mule deer than most any rifle I've heard of. It was carried in the Targhee and Caribou country bordering Yellowstone National Park and south to the Wyoming border clear to Utah and still lives in that country and still gets some exercise, took a mule deer earlier this past fall. Still alive and kicking!!!!!

[gnoahhh]

Pretty cool, Guesser. Rifles like that interest me more than mint safe queens.

[azrednek]

The Savage 99 was supposed to be brought back but since receiving the letter below. I've talked to, two Savage employees that didn't know anything about it.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/SAVAGE-1.jpg

The basis of my letter was questioning the similarity between the Stevens Model 200 and the newly introduced Marlin bolt action. I asked if the Marlin was actually manufactured by Savage. I closed the letter by saying something to the affect. If Marlin copied your design, don't get mad get even. Bring back the 99 and take a chunk of their lever action market.

I do have one Model 99 in 308. I've turned down numerous offers for it. My only complaint is the some what weak extractor. It does not like surplus 7.62. Handloads have to go through a small base sizing die and max loads might or might not extract. 10% below max they flow through like a red-hot knife through butter.

On several hunting outings with my brother's friends they always want to shoot my 99 and often try and buy or trade for it. My brother and his friends have high incomes. Most probably pay more in state income taxes than I gross annually. Despite the offers it doesn't take them long to figure out they can't beg, barrow or steal it.

[starmac]

I would love to see a 99 comeback. I tend to think they could build a somewhat affordable rifle with all the advances in machinery we have today.
It would be somewhat of a limited market though, so I don't know if they could sell the numbers they would need to to make them affordable to the average M99 fan, plus old style quality would have to be there, for them to appeal to most of the folks that would be buying one.

[Tazman1602]

I would buy a new 99 in a HEARTBEAT. I love those old rifles and have never found them to be red headed step children. Every single one I"ve ever taken to a gun show with me just to put on the table -- with a rediculous price that no one would pay, has gone in minutes. Last 99 takedown in 303 savage cal went in ten minutes for $750 and it wasn't in the greatest shape.

Makes me sick to do stupid stuff like that. I have one Savage 99 takedown in 303 savage left and only wish I had one in 308 and 243 and......................:groner:

I was in the local MC Sports store earlier in the week and some old boy was trading in his 99 in 300 savage along with an old Winny 94 for a blasted AR15 they had (a bushmaster of all things) and I happened to ask the guys what they were going to sell it for. They said they took it in right and weren't scalpers and were going to put it on the rack for $500.............if only it hadn't been around Christmas that gun would have been mine.

They are GREAT rifles! My BIL has one in a takedown and it has some kind of scope mount that attaches to the side of it and with a push of a spring loaded button the whole scope and mount comes off. I've never been able to identify it -- any ideas???

Art

[helice]

I was the happy recipient of an 1899 Savage in 250-3000. The lady's family lived next to the Hurst Castle in So. California and there is a possibility that Wm Randolph Hurst purchased the rifle and brought it south for Mr. Evans who gave it to his daughter. It's lettered by the Savage Historian, purchased in a sporting goods store 3 blocks from Hurst's San Francisco office.
I got my second 99 a few years later, a late model 308 Win with impressed checkering. I gave it to my brother's daughter and her new husband as a wedding gift. I found out that a Model 99 sure beats a set of bath towels.:drinks: I miss the rifle but there are some things that men just have to do for family.

[northmn]

A stated some love them and some hate them. Those that love them think they were the greatest gun ever made, those like myself don't miss them. Just got rid of one in 300 Savage. I really did not like the thing, trigger pull was heavy and not consistant and it had that miserable safety on the lever which was not particular handy, especially with gloves. Many of the rotary magazines had a reputation for jamming. Basically, however, $400 would be a real buy on a 250-3000 as they go for premium prices around my neck of the woods. Up to $900 for a good one. When Savage cheapened them to make them more competitive they seemed to try to compete with the Marlins and Winchesters and offered them in 20" barrels. The clip was a great idea but they also went to stained birch for stocks. They did not seem to be able to make a decent niche in the market nor did the better made model 88 Winchester.

DP

[uscra112]

Long ago I picked up a very early 99 in .303 Savage. s/n is from year 1900, scout's honor! Now, I've never hunted with it, but I will say that it's the only rifle I've ever known that mounts like a perfectly fitted and balanced shotgun. If I were forced by law to take only snap shots at running deer, that's the rifle.

[xs11jack]

I have a 99 in 243 Win. I purchased used from a family friend. We went fox hunting and he shot a fox in the head and 420 honest paces. (my paces, I'm six ft tall). I can't read the roll mark on the barrel, I think it says model L but I am not sure. Does anyone know what model the .243 came out in??
Jack

[richhodg66]

I have never heard of problems with the rotary magazines in 99s, in fact, I'd always heard they were about the best system ever.

I wish they would bring the 99 back, I just hope it isn't th e detachable magazine ones like the last few years.

[starmac]

Shsh Don't tell my 1932 model that it's rotary mag is problematic, it may up and quit sometime in the next 80 or 90 years. lol

The only time I have seen the removable mag liked better than the rotary is when one is converted to 338 federal, That I have personally heard of.
I don't know how many M99 were made, but there was enough that they had a pretty good market share. I also never considered the M88 superior in any way either, what about it is superior to the M99???

[northmn]

I have had a couple of users claim some problems with the rotary magazine. The one I had worked. The model 88 Winchester had a one piece stock for instance and a detachable magazine and a better safety system than the earlier Savages. the 88 was a little sleeker as the 99 is a bit clumsy to carry with its larger receiver. As both are obsolete and still bring higher prices than when new its a moot question. At this time the only comparable rifle to a 99 is the BLR with a wider range of calibers to confuse the issue. Also the newer 308 Marlin using the plastic tipped bullets are very similar in performance. Some worry about their longevity.

DP

[Artful]

I love my Savage 99 in 358 WCF - all feeds fine and works well with cast boolits - I do wish they would bring it back.

I'm still kicking myself for not picking up a Savage 99 in 375 Big Bore - I got the Ruger #3 instead

[starmac]

I guess it is personal preference, but I would rather carry the 99 than the 88 or even most guns, because of the thinner rounded reciever. I am not knocking the 88, but prefer the savage. The 88 has had a problem with the one piece stock changing to a two piece stock. The newer marlin may be similar in performance ballistic wise to the 308, but they are nothing like a savage and still cock on opening. I am not knocking the marlins either (heavily considered one in the 338) but if you are used to handling a savage, they are just different.

[northmn]

Actually the Savage was an excellent gun for giving the shooter a comprimise as to a more modern cartridge with longer range and a lever action for faster repeat shots. One could use one in the brush like a 94 or for more open shots. I did get a deer with my Savage and made a very pretty shot kind of threading a needle through the brush at better than 100 yards.
The 99 went out because of costs of manufacture and the fact that Savage had some business problems. They just did not reintroduce the 99 when they started up again. Rifles like the Winchester 88 and 100 and maybe the Remington pump gun may have also filled a very narrow market and made the competition for that type of rifle too tight. For open shooting I much prefer a good bolt action, which is what I traded my 99 off for.
The last 99's were not made in the Savage calibers either. The 250 and the 300 were great calibers (my daughter has taken a few deer with a 300 bolt and I now have a bolt 300) The 300 was said at one time to be the perfect deer cartridge, which I do not have much arguement against. The 308 might be more powerful and mayber better at long range, but I would eat a lot of venison if I only used the 300. The little 250 brings the premium prices in used 99's in my neck of the woods and isn't all bad either. The 99's were offered in the same calibers as the Winchesters. They may have just been an answer looking for a demand.

DP

[azrednek]

Actually The 300 was said at one time to be the perfect deer cartridge, which I do not have much arguement against. The 308 might be more powerful and mayber better at long range, but I would eat a lot of venison if I only used the 300.
DP

The very best hunter I've ever known. When he is not using a bow, he is using a beater and I do mean a beater, Model 99 in 300. Virtually no blueing left, cracked and repaired buttstock. Inside though a perfectly clean and well oiled machine.

He has taken several Utah, one Arizona Elk and numerous other Arizona game with it in the 25+ years I've known him. He is one guy you can't argue with about the 300 being under powered. He claims if he can't get close enough to put a shot into the animal's neck, he wont shoot. If he cripples and drops an animal by severing the spine but misses an artery. He dispatches the animal with a head shot with an old H&R 32 SWL revolver. The H&R looks nearly as bad as his 99 but gets the job done.

He is not a cheapskate. With his frugal life as a single parent. He managed to get his daughter through medical school on his postal worker's salary. Haven't seen him in a few years but I heard his daughter, now a MD bought him a brand new Dodge 4X4.

[451whitworth]

I noticed Savage 99 prices jump in 2005. up until then they were $3-400, with the 250-3000 & 358WCF bringing the $400 price. Then in 2005 it seemed that any 99 in 250-3000 was suddenly worth $6-800 and 358's were whatever someone was willing to pay. I have a 99G in 300 and a 99R in 358. In the last two months i've watched 3 different 358's on Gunbroker go for $1200+. Two were in really rough condition and the third was in excellent shape but was the late '70's reissue that they called the 99-358 with that horrible looking recoil pad. It went for over $1300.

[northmn]

The 358 SAvage was said to be a popular Alaskan gun as the 358 was adequate for the larger bear and moose and could be loaded down with 38 cal pistol bullets for small game. Always wanted to play with something like that, but where I live the 35 Remington or the 30-30 does the same thing as MN is kind of short of brown bear and grizzlies. Considering the modification to some Winchester 1871's I would guess the ability to have a quick second shot is valuable to them.
Seems like they will pay prices for these older used guns but not for new ones should the makers reintroduce them. Would a line of special run 99's selling for $8-900 sell? Winchester has had varied luck on their attempts.

DP

[TXGunNut]

I pick up every used 99 I see on the used gun racks I cruise, so far I've put them all down. Most are good honest guns with lots of wear but seem to be well taken care of. Brass and repair parts are a concern as well as the relative merits of the different models. Someday I'm going to take the time to figure these awesome rifles out but for now I have too many projects and a shortage of cash and time.

[atr]

I think they have become a collectors market, not necessarily a shooters market. I have a friend who buys them up and then puts them in his safe !......AHHHHHHHHHHH !
and so the price keeps steadly rising to the point, in my opinion, that they just arn't worth the cost.
I own a Model 99 in .308 and find it a great rifle to carry, light and quick and I like the tang safety, but I wouldn't go paying 400 to 500 dollars for another one.
atr

[Dobetown]

Excellent rifles I am rat holing mine. Like any other gun no longer made. They must run cheaper in some places. Out here a beater starts about 600.00. A well known gun writer did an article on the 99 in Rifle magazine a few years ago that didn't help. Check out the 99 forum on 24hrscampfire.

[larryp]

I had a 99 with the rotary mag in .308 cal. It was light and very accurate but had one of the worst triggers I've ever seen on a rifle. Very heavy. The BLR in .308 that I own now is a much better rifle.

[starmac]

I had a 99 with the rotary mag in .308 cal. It was light and very accurate but had one of the worst triggers I've ever seen on a rifle. Very heavy. The BLR in .308 that I own now is a much better rifle.

I guess that is a personal preference thing. We have a member on another forum that is (was) aBLR nut in 358 for years. He wound up having a model 99 rebarreled to 358 as he couldn't find an affordable one. He has nothing but good to say about it. I think maybe they fit some people better than others as I much prefer the 99 over any blr that I have shot. I much prefer the older 99 with the schnabel for ends to the later ones too though.

[9.3X62AL]

I enjoy my 1930-made Savage 99 in 250 Savage VERY much. It is a great cast boolit shooter, and a lot of jackrabbits have fallen at its report. It has gone with me into the deer woods several times, but the muleys stayed away by the hundreds. If Savage was to bring them back, I would consider buying 1 or 2 if put up in interesting calibers--338 Federal or 358 Winchester come to mind here. The pricing of old-school 99s in 358 is prohibitive.

[fatnhappy]

I picked up a low serial numbered 1903 springfield (five digit serial number) and a savage 99F in .308 five years ago in a gun trade, more or less $800 for the both of them.

It was one of my better trades. the savage was literally brand new, 1955-1956 vintage. After a thorough cleaning and relubing I took it to the range and worked up a couple cast and jacketed loads. The very next deer season I lent it to a young kid in our hunting party. He promptly slew a nice heavy 6 pointer. this was only the second year rifles were legal for deer in Cattaraugus county. the previous year he'd borrowed a 7mm mag with which he destroyed the entire front half of a 150 lb doe at 25 yards.

In comparison, he was mightily impressed with the performance of the 180 grain hornady round nose and the rifle's general handling. It is light, accurate and very handy to carry. So much so he went on a quest to buy one for himself. He eventually came up with a beautiful 99 in .300 sav for about $750. It would have been pricier had the original owner not installed a marbles compass in the buttstock. His new to him savage has a tang peep sight and is strictly irons. A very very nice rifle.

I've used mine every season since for a couple deer. A finer slayer of deer would be hard to find. I've very happy with how comfortable it is to carry and use.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h152/lhsjfk3t/002-2.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h152/lhsjfk3t/001-7.jpg

The last time I went to a gunshow, possibly 3 years ago, every 99 I saw had a price tag over a grand. Most were pretty ratty to boot.

FYI, anyone that wants to add a sling swivel to a 99 forearm ought to look at the front stud replacement from grovetec. Savage uses some crazy non-standard thread.
https://www.woodburyoutfitters.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=17370

[451whitworth]

I had a 99 with the rotary mag in .308 cal. It was light and very accurate but had one of the worst triggers I've ever seen on a rifle. Very heavy.
i agree about the trigger. the one on my 99R 358 is so heavy. heavier than any of my Winchester, Browning repro's, or Marlin levers. My older 99 with the lever safety has a much lighter trigger.

[ammohead]

It took 15 years but I finally found a 99 in 284 Win a couple of years ago. After bedding the loose buttstock I get sub moa with 140 gr barnes triple shock bullets at 2850 fps. Not bad for a lever action.

[uscra112]

i agree about the trigger. the one on my 99R 358 is so heavy. heavier than any of my Winchester, Browning repro's, or Marlin levers. My older 99 with the lever safety has a much lighter trigger.

The trigger can be smoothed up. It ain't even hard to do.

[Four Fingers of Death]

In reality here (I don't know about in the States), Marlin bolt rifles haven't laid a glove on the Savage rifles. I fancied one to match up with my 1894, 336 and 444, but I have bolt hunting rifles really well covered and they were always a bit expensive for something I never needed in the first place( that is, expensive compared to an Axis/Edge or more recently the Ruger American).

99s pop up here and there in Australia every now and then, but I have never had that much disposable at the time or the rifle hasn't been up to speed, or in a calibre that I fancied. consequently, I never ended up with one.

[Ed in North Texas]

snip
I do have one Model 99 in 308. I've turned down numerous offers for it. My only complaint is the some what weak extractor. It does not like surplus 7.62. Handloads have to go through a small base sizing die and max loads might or might not extract. 10% below max they flow through like a red-hot knife through butter.
snip

Considering the fact that the old standard for GI brass was to reduce loads 10% due to the thicker brass, if your 10% comment was still about the GI brass, that's no surprise.

[TXGunNut]

I'd like to someday add a 99 to my stable of hunting rifles but would like to stay with a chambering I can load for easily. I don't load .308 so 30-30 sounds like the easiest. A bigger bore would be nice if brass isn't an issue. Any suggestions? Any favorite models? Which ones are normally D&T'd for a scope? I'd like to leave the collectible rifles (and their higher prices) to the collectors but would like another nice levergun to hunt with.

[azrednek]

Not being a collector of 99's I can't say $$-wise but it is my belief the 30/30 Model 99's are some what scarce and scarcity means extra bux. I believe there were 99's made in 358 Winchester which would be a good all around deer and elk gun. A handloader though with a 308 with the huge assortment of j-words and 30 cal molds available could take down elk sized game at reasonable ranges. Years ago on an elk hunt one of our group used hand loaded Speer (I think it was Speer but could be wrong) 200gr round nose in an older 308 Remington 788. He wasn't successful on the hunt, never getting a shot off but he did claim to taking an elk in Utah with the load.

[azrednek]

In my previous post #20 I showed a copy of the letter I got from Savage CEO Ron Coburn saying "watch out for the return of the Model 99 it is on the drawing board".

The ol'saying applies here "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". If we were to all sit down and write Mr Coburn a personable yet polite letter asking him how soon will it be off the drawing board and on my dealer's shelf. With enough requests from Model 99 fans and correspondence to respond to. It might be the little nudge or more bluntly the good swift kick in his donkey to get the 99 off the drawing board and into production.

If all the 99 fans from Cast Boolits were to drop him a line and spread the word to other forums encouraging the members to write. We could possibly persuade Mr Coburn the investment could be a profitable venture for Savage/Stevens worth the investment in tooling with a low risk of failure.

We might remind him of the success Smith and Wesson has had with their nostalgic copies of older, long discontinued models. I don't know how successful Remington was with manufacturing the Model 700 in nostalgic calibers such as 257 Roberts, 8MM Mauser, 220 Swift etc but there is a market in nostalgic firearms.

It all boils down to dollars and cents. With enough pressure from John Q Public. If Mr Coburn can see the possibility of increasing the bottom line he may be persuaded into taking the business risk.

I'm going to take the time to write and I hope everybody following this thread does also. Best of all if any Cast Boolit members are also connected to a lever action board or any newsgroup associated with firearms. Get the word out by copying the letter I posted. Please ask the members to write. Numerous but sincere hand written letters will have a bigger impact in my opinion than an online petition.

For now I will step off the soapbox and begin crafting my letter. Please join me by not only by writing Mr Coburn but help get the word out.

[doylefish]

I have over 20 of them. When I was younger and a avid hunter I almost always used a 99. I have many calibers but my favorites are 300 Sav. and the 284 Win.. I used to used a new caliber every year and have taken deer with over 20 different calibers.

[gnoahhh]

If Savage pulled off re-introducing the 99 to pre-mil (pre one million serial #- think pre-64 Winchester), or better yet pre-war quality, and kept the price down to $1000 or less they could sell a bunch of them. If a re-introduced gun was of the quality of the cr*p they made in the 60's-80's they'll be lucky to sell a Toyota Corolla trunk-full. I shudder to think what the price of one would be, built to pre-war standards. Don't hold your breath for the re-intro of a true Savage 99!

[dakotashooter2]

My father has one in 303 savage. He was a crack shot with it but retired the gun many years ago. I purchased a set of dies and pick up brass whenever I can in hopes that it will be in my hands one day.

[451whitworth]

If Savage pulled off re-introducing the 99 to pre-mil (pre one million serial #- think pre-64 Winchester), or better yet pre-war quality, and kept the price down to $1000 or less they could sell a bunch of them. If a re-introduced gun was of the quality of the cr*p they made in the 60's-80's they'll be lucky to sell a Toyota Corolla trunk-full. I shudder to think what the price of one would be, built to pre-war standards. Don't hold your breath for the re-intro of a true Savage 99!
i agree with everything you stated. personally i don't think there is any way in heck they could bring it back at $1000 even if they made it like the post mil rifles. Built like pre-war? $2000 (shudder). i just don't think the economics would pan out.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Possibly with investment castings it would be possible and Ruger No1s walk out the door at the local gunshop and are a classy rifle with all of the big bits investment cast. They should be able to put the Savage on the market with reasonable wood for similar money using modern manufacturing techniques.

They were a steady seller, but never were a huge sales success, if they were to make it viable, keeping the volume up to offset costs will be their biggest challenge I think.

Be nice to see, especially as it will be made in the States (very important to you guys, less so to us rest of the worlders, but I prefer to give business to our No1 ally, which is the US and England after that).

Apart from being a local product with a high level of nostalgia (which will probably be lose of most of the punters), it won't do anything the Browning BLR won't do and with a longer lever throw.

I owuldn't mind one, but I would reallyyyyyyyyyyyyyy love a BLR take down in 308W!

[TXGunNut]

My two concerns are demand and price point. As much as we all love leverguns I just don't see a high demand for the 99 in spite of all it's merits. The most popular levergun in the world is presently being made in small quantities as a specialty item overseas. The reborn 336 and 1895 from Remlin are not a huge success story either but at least they're made in the US of A. I was in a hunting camp with six other hunters a few weeks ago and I'm pretty sure I had the only levergun, or at least I was the only one to uncase one. As a matter of fact belted cases were probably in the majority and I can assure you I was the only hunter shooting real boolits. We're all loyal and enthusiastic consumers but we don't represent a large part of the market Savage is interested in. Even after this assault rifle silliness is over I doubt leverguns will make up a significant percentage of the market share.
If Savage follows the business model of the new 94's we'll have high quality, beautifully finished rifles with a price to match. The Remlin model of high-tech manufacturing but no frills would result in a rifle that most could afford but few would want. Savage has never gone after the high end of the sporting rifle market so I'm not sure how this will play out or even if it will.
I need another hunting rifle like a need another hole in my head but if I decide to add a 99 to my stable it will be a gently used one.

[starmac]

I don't see savage tooling back up for the 99. I'm sure they have people that knows pretty well what their market share would be and I doubt it would be enough to lay out the start up bucks.

[Four Fingers of Death]

About the only way I could see it being feasible is to do limited runs like a 100 high grade guns and a 1000 normal guy guns. After they have all gone and the dust settled, maybe they could do another run. The problem is the Savage99, good gun that it is, does not relate to anything that the average guy would know about or appreciate. The only one I ever saw in a movie was carried by Robert Duvall. I think most shooters wouldn't know a Savage 99 if they tripped over one. Winchesters are instantly recognisable by most people and Marlins can piggyback on this being a slab sided lever gun (we know the difference, but most wouldn't). I had a group from the motorcycle club attend the range for an outing. I let them shoot the Marlin 1894 with 44Specials and to a man (and woman) they insisted on calling it the Winchester, even after I pointed out that it was actually a Marlin, it was still a Winchester as far as they were all concerned! Only one person out of the twenty had ever handled or fired a gun previously, but they knew their 'Winchesters' lol. Too many cowboy movies.

We need to drum up support from the Robert Duvall fan club! haha!

[starmac]

That is part of the problem, they would not be used in the cowboy shoots, they always were and sill would be hunters guns. Most folks that were raised on wins and marlins don't realize just how sweet these are. lol

[Four Fingers of Death]

That is part of the problem, they would not be used in the cowboy shoots, they always were and sill would be hunters guns. Most folks that were raised on wins and marlins don't realize just how sweet these are. lol

Thats not all bad I suppose, haha! 99s are hard to find, if the plebs knew what a good rifle they were, they would be impossible to find!

[starmac]

Yep, I wish I would have put some up years ago, Hindsight is a wonderful thing. lol Investment wise the older wins and marlins would have been a better deal except for maybe the rarer caliber 99s.

[gnoahhh]

I guess the reason the 1899 and 99 Savages never caught on to the extent of the Winchester is as mentioned before- use in the countless cowboy movies. You can bet your bippy that if John Wayne had slung a Savage lever gun, there would have been about three times the number sold, and would probably still be in production.

It's a shame, really, because generally speaking all of the Savages I have owned would shoot rings around any of the Winchesters/Marlins I was exposed to. Not to mention not having the balance point shift as the magazine emptied, unlike a tube fed gun, and while using spitzer bullets to boot.

[KCSO]

Gee compared to say the 788 Remington the Savage 99 hasn't gone up much at all. In 1973 a 788 with scope sold for $99 and a Savage 99 was over $200. Now a 99 goes for $450 and a 788 is the same price around here and the Savage was even in the 70's a much more expensive to manufacture and better buiilt gun. And look at the 340 Savage that no one wanted 30 years ago who would have ever thought they would be 250-300 dollars? It's kinda strange how fads for the discontinued guns goes.

[TNsailorman]

people and lemmings have a lot in common.

[starmac]

It takes a pretty rough M99 around here to be listed for 450 bucks, more like 600 on the low end of the scale.

[dakotashooter2]

The way things are looking they could be the next civilian assault weapon...................

[starmac]

The way things are looking they could be the next civilian assault weapon...................

Actually the marlins or wins or any of the tube fed levers are more suitable as you can be loading as you go. I read an article where a guy used a lever to go through one of the shootum up courses against the guys with black rifles. He surprised them all with his times and hits, his gun never got empty so he never had to change mags.

[451whitworth]

About the only way I could see it being feasible is to do limited runs like a 100 high grade guns and a 1000 normal guy guns. After they have all gone and the dust settled, maybe they could do another run. The problem is the Savage99, good gun that it is, does not relate to anything that the average guy would know about or appreciate. The only one I ever saw in a movie was carried by Robert Duvall. I think most shooters wouldn't know a Savage 99 if they tripped over one. Winchesters are instantly recognisable by most people and Marlins can piggyback on this being a slab sided lever gun (we know the difference, but most wouldn't). I had a group from the motorcycle club attend the range for an outing. I let them shoot the Marlin 1894 with 44Specials and to a man (and woman) they insisted on calling it the Winchester, even after I pointed out that it was actually a Marlin, it was still a Winchester as far as they were all concerned! Only one person out of the twenty had ever handled or fired a gun previously, but they knew their 'Winchesters' lol. Too many cowboy movies.

We need to drum up support from the Robert Duvall fan club! haha!
yup, Robert Duvall in Joe Kidd is the only one i can think of too. prices for discontinued American gun models has always baffled me anyway. in the case of the 99 we are talking about millions of rifles made and some people act and price them like they are rare or hard to find.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The one Mr Duvall used in 'Joe Kidd' ( thanks, I couldn 't remember the name) was sure one fancy rifle.
It just occurred to me that Ruger also do investment casting on contract. They would be a natural to outsource the work to. The rifle is not about to compete with Ruger products, Savage saves plenty on set up costs and Ruger makes some bux well. Too easy.

[gnoahhh]

Actually, only a million of the good ones were made, up until 1960 when they cheapened the makeup of them and started down the slippery slope of semi-shoddiness while trying to maintain their niche in the marketplace. Winchester pulled a similar stunt in 1964 but recovered after a while, as did Savage- for while both outfit's guns were/are darn good efficient tools after that, they lost that old school quality that gun loonies sought.

I agree that the pricing of pre-mil Savages and pre-64 Winchesters is approaching scandalous levels, but is it not truly a reflection of people wising up to the fact that they will never come 'round again (at least in a form affordable to a working man) and there is but a finite number of them?

[451whitworth]

I just thought of another movie with a 99 in it, Charles Bronson's character in "Death Hunt" with Lee Marvin.

[azrednek]

It just occurred to me that Ruger also do investment casting on contract. .

If what I read recently is true, sorry but I just don't recall where. Ruger does investment casting for many firearms manufactures. The article claimed nearly all 1911 frames and slides originate at Ruger's Prescott facility and are sold in various forms of completion to other firearm's manufactures. The article noted one exception, Taurus but didn't list any other manufactures by name. A former neighbor, an engineer for McDonnell Douglass told me Ruger made many parts for them because of what he claimed. Ruger's quality, strength and better tolerances than anybody else could produce for them.

[Artful]

people and lemmings have a lot in common.

What - is that a cliff note?

[Four Fingers of Death]

If what I read recently is true, sorry but I just don't recall where. Ruger does investment casting for many firearms manufactures. The article claimed nearly all 1911 frames and slides originate at Ruger's Prescott facility and are sold in various forms of completion to other firearm's manufactures. The article noted one exception, Taurus but didn't list any other manufactures by name. A former neighbor, an engineer for McDonnell Douglass told me Ruger made many parts for them because of what he claimed. Ruger's quality, strength and better tolerances than anybody else could produce for them.

Apparently Taurus are one of the few (if only, I can't remember) gun makers that make everything in house, right down to springs and small hardware. They are pretty huge apparently.

[azrednek]

Apparently Taurus are one of the few (if only, I can't remember) gun makers that make everything in house, right down to springs and small hardware. They are pretty huge apparently.

Taurus makes a big deal in their 1911 advertising that their frames are forged. Kind of reminds me of the Ruger and S&W advertising hamburger war several years ago. The Rumor mill said Bill Ruger canned his CEO as a result and personally apologized to the S&W CEO by telephone.

According to my former neighbor. Modern investment casting in many ways is superior to forging. He claimed Ruger's process is done by injecting the mold at a high level of pressure eliminating the possibility of trapped air pockets.

[reivertom]

I've got nothing bad to say about the Mod99 or the BLR....I like them both. The BLR is probably more practical if you shoot alot simply because parts are available. They are in a different league than the 94 or 336.

[Four Fingers of Death]

They are in a different league than the 94 or 336.

That is for sure and not knocking the 94 or the 336, the only thing they have in common is that they are all lever rifles. All good, but really two distinct groups.

[pls1911]

My first center fire was a scoped 99E in .308 with a blond stock... dang thing cost me $60.
I have pletty of others I shoot now, but still have the 99.
I've never sighted it in or shot it at paper, but 125, 150, 165, or 180 grain factory loads apparently shoot close to the same POA, as over the years it has taken all sorts of critters at all sorts of ranges, and not once needed a second shot.

[Ed in North Texas]

I have never heard of problems with the rotary magazines in 99s, in fact, I'd always heard they were about the best system ever.

I wish they would bring the 99 back, I just hope it isn't th e detachable magazine ones like the last few years.

The spring can become weaker with years of use (imagine that, a magazine spring getting weaker) and they can also get out of adjustment with heavy use (directions for fixing that minor problem can be found on the web).

Ed

[Ed in North Texas]

SNIP the 88 was a little sleeker as the 99 is a bit clumsy to carry with its larger receiver. SNIP
DP

There is a reason the 99s (not the detach mag model) very often have a lot of finish wear on the bottom and side of the receiver - most models balance perfectly at the receiver. It is just a natural to grab the rifle at the receiver and carry it that way. One person's "clumsy" is another's advantage.

Ed

[Ed in North Texas]

Actually the marlins or wins or any of the tube fed levers are more suitable as you can be loading as you go. I read an article where a guy used a lever to go through one of the shootum up courses against the guys with black rifles. He surprised them all with his times and hits, his gun never got empty so he never had to change mags.

This doesn't make a lot of sense as the reason he (apparently) outshot the guys using modern sporting rifles. If he had time to put one round in his lever gun, they had time to change mags. Yesterday, at the range, I gave my youngest son a Glock 30 and two mags. I told him the mag in the pistol had 4 rounds in it, the other mag was full. He promptly shot the pistol "dry" and had to change mags. This reinforced the lesson - count your shots and change mags BEFORE you run the gun dry. Anybody routinely shooting a run and gun course would follow this practice and it takes little time to drop a mag and insert a full mag while moving to the next station. Hard on the dropped mags, but that is why we have range mags and carry mags for our pistols.

I'd guess the reason the lever gun guy did so well is he was extremely familiar with his weapon, was well practiced with it and was an excellent shot. Just my $0.02 - which is worth next to nothing these days.

Ed

[Ed in North Texas]

What - is that a cliff note?

Oh, what a pun!

[northmn]

One of the more humorous things about lever guns is that in talking to the depression era hunters I knew as a youngster, the fast second shot was not much of an issue, nor the magazine capacity. Many would go out with one round in the chamber and maybe 1 in the magazine. Often they nearly used up a box of ammo before buying another. They did not load the 7 shot magazine to full capacity and kind of looked at those that did as tender feet. Loading the magazine to full capacity is what smashes the noses. After talking to them, to this day I will only load 1 in the chamber and maybe 3, generally 2 in the magazine. When I hunted in a deer party, another type of individual we laughed at were the semi auto shooters that would lay out 5 shots so rapidly the last shot must ahve been at geese and got no deer. Some lever shooters with full magazines tend to do that also.

DP

[starmac]

Ed That was the point of the article, a guy that was good with his levergun could score as well as most with a modern sporting rifle. lol

The point I was making was the tube fed rifles were easier to load on the run, than the M99. Not that any of it makes any difference, for most of us in the real world.

[Artful]

After many years hunting with bolt and lever I had switched over to Single shot ruger #3 in 375 - Never much needed a second shot with it.
But when plinking (and I used up many rounds doing that) it wasn't hard to reload the 99 savage and if I was using a bolt that didn't take stripper clips I found the savage quicker to reload.

[starmac]

Yea they are easy enough to load. I have never tried to load one while running though. lol

[northmn]

At my age I don't do much of anything on the run.

DP

[starmac]

LOL Yea the last time I played any run and gun, I did use a lever, but it held plenty of bbs, so you just needed to make sure the barrel was elevated and no need to reload. lol

[Ed in North Texas]

One of the more humorous things about lever guns is that in talking to the depression era hunters I knew as a youngster, the fast second shot was not much of an issue, nor the magazine capacity. Many would go out with one round in the chamber and maybe 1 in the magazine. Often they nearly used up a box of ammo before buying another. They did not load the 7 shot magazine to full capacity and kind of looked at those that did as tender feet. Loading the magazine to full capacity is what smashes the noses. After talking to them, to this day I will only load 1 in the chamber and maybe 3, generally 2 in the magazine. When I hunted in a deer party, another type of individual we laughed at were the semi auto shooters that would lay out 5 shots so rapidly the last shot must ahve been at geese and got no deer. Some lever shooters with full magazines tend to do that also.

DP
Not trying to be tacky, but the Savage 99 did not have a 7 shot magazine capacity, and it wasn't possible to smash the nose of the cartridges in the 99s by loading to the full 5 cartridge capacity. Good thing, because those spire point cartridges wouldn't expand right if their nose was smashed.

Ed

[baer19d]

Just when I decided I wanted one the price seemed to have gone up quite a bit. Just my luck I guess.

[TXGunNut]

Just when I decided I wanted one the price seemed to have gone up quite a bit. Just my luck I guess.

Was just thinking that very thought the other day. When they were cheap and plentiful I had little idea what a fine little rifle they were.

[riddlesgun]

I have a 99 lever action in 250-3000. Age hasn't been kind to my eyes so I'm in the market for a peep sight. Does anyone know where I can get one for a reasonable price? Is any company making new ones?

[richhodg66]

I have a 99 lever action in 250-3000. Age hasn't been kind to my eyes so I'm in the market for a peep sight. Does anyone know where I can get one for a reasonable price? Is any company making new ones?

The Lyman and Marbles flip up ones are expensive, but do turn up now and then. I think the Marbles ones are still available new.

There are also Lyman and Redfield ones that fit in the tang holes that have standard click type adjustments. I just got one for my 99EG and haven't mounted and used it yet.

By the way, as for movies with 99s, Ken Foree uses one to kill zombies in the 1979 version of Dawn of the Dead. I'm sure there are other movies out there too.

[starmac]

Williams also made one, I'm not sure if new ones are still available.

[riddlesgun]

Thanks for the info. Not only are the old sights on ebay crazy high priced, I don't know what will...or will not work on my 250 lever action Savage. I don't want to drill on this rifle and I see two screws on top of the reciever that could be mounting possibilities. Anyone know what will work on this rife without any drilling?

[Poppaclutch]

M99 250-3000 87grs. 50 yd. peep. 13/16th steel plate.
58427

[Artful]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/678412/williams-fp-99s-receiver-peep-sight-savage-99-with-top-safety-aluminum-black

http://levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30823

Marble's was a good one if you can find it.
http://www.shootersforum.com/attachments/leverguns-their-cartridges-general/8734d1253910908-savage-99-receiver-sights-mar009840.jpg
But doesn't work with new model 99's with tang safety.

[Ed in North Texas]

I have a 99 lever action in 250-3000. Age hasn't been kind to my eyes so I'm in the market for a peep sight. Does anyone know where I can get one for a reasonable price? Is any company making new ones?

Last I knew Marbles still makes the tang sight, and Williams still makes a Fool Proof. I'm not sure that Lyman's tang sight is still made for the 99 series. And there are any number of vintage sights which turn up on that auction site (and usually bring pretty fancy money).

Hope that helps.

Ed

Knew I should have read all the way through before commenting. One day I'll remember to do that. Yeah, right...

[riddlesgun]

Thanks for the info and links. I will keep researching and looking but until then I might just use some model paint to tip the sight and line the rear.

[dnepr]

Well i just added another 99 to the collection a 1899 in 303 , nice shape with a very good bore , can't wait to shoot it it dates 1900 or 1901 depending which search engine you put the serial number into

[riddlesgun]

I was given my 99 in .250 by a paranoid neighbor in Cali when the assault rifle ban was enacted. He knew I was moving to AZ so he gave me that and a couple of other rifles that were actually included in the ban. I just only recently took out the .250 and shot it and it is my new favorite rifle. Mine is a lightly used lever action made in 1935 and shoots tight groups like a new top shelf and tuned up rifle. It has a auto round counter on the side which technology should be on all rifles. Brass has been a pain though. It's rare but I got some from Cabela's. I imagine .303 will be harder. I imagine I will be grabbing all the 99's I can find and afford in the future. I love this well made, quality model. Happy Shooting!

[Artful]

I was given my 99 in .250 by a paranoid neighbor in Cali when the assault rifle ban was enacted. He knew I was moving to AZ so he gave me that and a couple of other rifles that were actually included in the ban. I just only recently took out the .250 and shot it and it is my new favorite rifle. Mine is a lightly used lever action made in 1935 and shoots tight groups like a new top shelf and tuned up rifle. It has a auto round counter on the side which technology should be on all rifles. Brass has been a pain though. It's rare but I got some from Cabela's.

- 250 Savage can be formed from other longer cases in the '06/308 family of cartridges
- I used to make them from inexpensive 7.62x51 surplus brass.
- but necking up 22-250 cases would be easier to use.
- Just be sure not to mix them up with other cartridges with original headstamp.
- an advantage as 25 caliber looks much larger than 22 caliber.
- if you neck down from a larger caliber you will need to thin the neck's.



I imagine .303 will be harder. I imagine I will be grabbing all the 99's I can find and afford in the future. I love this well made, quality model. Happy Shooting!
.303 Savage is easily made from .30-30 WCF or .25-35 brass. It bulges a little (.02") but not bad for light loads.
Used to know a few back in the day that did this.
If you have too have full power brass, you can form from 220 swift, 303 brit or 30-40 krag brass.
All you need to make the transition from 220 Swift to 303 Savage is a set of 303 Savage full length dies,
You'll want to size expanding neck sizer dies in steps 22-25 and 25-30.
You'll need to trim to shorten resulting long neck / case as it will be shown when the 220 Swift
is forced through the full length 303 Savage sizing die.
303 brit or 30-40 brass to 303 Savage is more involved and it helps to have a lathe.
303 Savage
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/303_Savage.gif/300px-303_Savage.gif

220 Swift
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/220-Swift-scheme.svg/500px-220-Swift-scheme.svg.png

30/30
http://www.lasc.us/Brennan6-73030headspace-9.jpg

303 British
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/303_British.gif

30-40 Krag
http://www.frfrogspad.com/30406.jpg

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f30/303-savage-brass-mfg-will-tell-how-1085/

It's just nice if you can purchase the correct brass.

[fatnhappy]

a very well laid out post Art. I assume it will be extremely helpful for a new board member. Well done.

[azrednek]

a very well laid out post Art. I assume it will be extremely helpful for a new board member. Well done.

I'm in 100% agreement, good job!! I politely disagree as being helpful to a new board member. Even us seasoned ol'timers also find it very useful.