I think I'm going to cry today -- RIP Lee Challenger... [Archive]

dromia

06-30-2007, 06:26 PM

Typical Lee, cheap to start with and you've had more than your monies worth out of that press but eventually it lets you down. The replies indicate that it is the nature of the beast.

Get something better now, you will need a single station press it is the foundation of all handloading, get a good one and then think about turrets and progressives. I have 5 single station presses, 2 Turrets and two progressives. If I had to have only one then it would be one of the single stagers. Probably the Ultramag just because of the clearance it gives me.

Lee have recognised that their line was weak and have responded with the Classic Cast and the Classic Cast Turret and both have had nothing but favourably consistent reviews so the Classic cast could be the way forward, lower cost but not lower quality.

I don't use them at present but a pending handloading room/gunroom move means that I will have the bench space to add them to my line up of tools and give them a proper try.

I'd buy a Lee Classic Cast, Rockchucker, Big Boss, Co-Ax, Hornady single station, Lyman Orange Crusher but not even consider a replacement Challenger, secondhand for a good press is a viable route also.

Move up and move on.

:castmine:

38-55

06-30-2007, 07:35 PM

Hey Handy Randy...
It's a design flaw in the link. I've had 4 break on me... Presses are handy though the way they are set up.. Lee really needs to address this problem. I have an old challenger and it had a different style of link that is still good.... I think they tried to fix something that wasn't broke. Go figure. Links are 3 bucks I believe.
Calvin
PS found this on their site
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/parts.cgi?1170540474.4938=90587
It's the toggle clamp half....

kywoodwrkr

06-30-2007, 07:55 PM

Check Midway's July sales brochure on line.
Lee Classic is on sale.
It is a solid press.
Classic cast progressive is good as well however.
FWIW
DaveP kywoodwrkr

RayinNH

06-30-2007, 08:26 PM

Handy, mine broke in the same place. I put some aluminum rod to it via the TIG weldor and was fixed in minutes. If you have a friend with a TIG give him a beer for the repair. If you have to pay a stranger to repair, it will be cheaper to buy a new part...Ray

GrizzLeeBear

06-30-2007, 08:26 PM

If you want a single stage get the Lee Classic Cast. If you want a turret get the Classic Cast Turret. I have both and they are very good presses. The Classic Cast is just as strong as the Rockchucker, etc., has some features that the Rockchucker, etc. doesn't, and is a lot cheaper. The Classic Cast turret is built on the Classic Cast base and linkage (all steel rather than cast aluminum of the Challenger) and is a great press for pistol and small - medium rifle rounds. Unless you want high volume production like a Dillon, the Lee Classic Cast presses give you the best buy in a SOLID press for less money.

tom barthel

06-30-2007, 09:29 PM

My press broke the same way. The handle became loose in the jaws. When you put pressure on the handle all that was supporting it was the jaws. I called Lee and was sent a new set of toggle jaws. Their customer service department is very good. I'm very happy with them. I also check the bolt several times a week. You have nothing to lose, call them. Be sure to tell them if both toggles are broken.
Good luck.

redneckdan

06-30-2007, 10:14 PM

I haven't had that kinda problem in close to 2 years of use. and I do some crazy ass case forming....5.56 NATO to .300 whisper in one pass.

Lloyd Smale

07-01-2007, 05:08 AM

Dan im going to educate you on how to deal with lee. Dont ever call them and ask for replacement parts or a quote to fix something (this goes for lyman too) just box up the broken parts and mail them to them. 99 times out of a 100 you will get free replacement parts int he mail withing a week or two.

Char-Gar

07-01-2007, 07:47 AM

That is the reason why old hands tell newbies to get high quality equipment to start with. Cheap is as cheap does!. You are not going to bust a Rockchucker. My old RCBS A2 was made from cast steel in the 50's and is good as new.

C A Plater

07-01-2007, 08:43 AM

If it were a RCBS press they would just send you the parts. My 1972 vintage Rockchucker was stored at my parents house for a number of years and by the time I retrieved it the bench it was attached to had been move to the garage. It had been remove from the bench by my sisters ex(many expletives deleted) and tossed to the floor. When I got it to my then new home and cleaned it up for use, one of the side links were broken and the ram had gone missing. I called them about buying replacement parts and they just sent them free of charge.

Flinchrock

07-01-2007, 09:42 AM

Lee=JUNK! everything you get from him has to be fixed to make it work properly!You are money ahead to save up and go with RCBS or Lyman. I have 35 year old RCBS and Lyman presses and molds that have seen MUCH use. I don't have 35 year old Lee anything!

pumpguy

07-01-2007, 10:33 AM

I won't bash Lee out of hand. For my money, Lee makes the best reloading dies. I have never owned one of their presses. They always looked to flimsy to me. I have a single stage Pacific (Hornady) from 1968 that has loaded THOUSANDS of rounds, and a Redding T-7 that I bought a couple of years ago that I load all of my rifle rounds on. It is built like a brick @#&*house. I gave $199.00 for it and suspect my daughters kids will be fighting over it.

13Echo

07-01-2007, 11:09 AM

Lee makes usable tools for a price that allows people to get started reloading who otherwise would never start. The tools are inexpensive and, except for the new press, lightweight, but they are not junk. A complete, usable set of tools and dies with powder and primers can be had for the cost of a Rockchucker press. If the new reloader gets hooked he can always upgrade, in the meantime he is reloading and SWMBO isn't concerned.

In 45 years of loading I've used C&H (Super C and dies), Lyman (Press, Tong tool, dies, lubrsizer), RCBS (Rockchucker, Partner press, dies, scales), Redding (T7 press, dies, scales, powder measure), as well as Lee (turret press, dies, powder measure, primer tool). The Lee tools are OK, some are excellent, and some, like the primer tool are the best you can get.

The linkage for the press is available direct from Lee for a reasonable price. Just Google "Lee Precision", find the press and click on the repair or replacement parts button.

Jerry Liles

handyrandyrc

07-01-2007, 03:10 PM

Some wanted to see some more close-up pictures. Both toggles are ruined -- one is bent and the other broken. I was actually processing a bunch of 9mm, using the case expanding/powder charging die when it happened. It's a little stiff, as I have to open them up a bit to get the cast boolits to seat without shaving.

Someone asked about the 2nd set of holes in the toggle link. The holes are there in case you wanted to flip the toggle -- you could then have the handle angled "lefty" instead of the "righty" angle I had it set to. If you go "lefty", the cross bolt goes in the other available hole. But it certainly is a weak part. I honestly don't think it's aluminum. It's more like some sort of pot metal zinc alloy of some sort. I took it apart and it certainly has a "ring" like zinc.

http://www.commbloc.net/handyrandyrc/images/005.jpg

http://www.commbloc.net/handyrandyrc/images/007.jpg

http://www.commbloc.net/handyrandyrc/images/008.jpg

wickerbill

07-01-2007, 04:36 PM

What can you say. Pot metal brakes, but I have always had good luck getting parts from Lee. Whatever you do, weather it be a progressive or a turret, fix that lee and hang on to it. I have a Dillon that I do most of my loading on, but there is a lot of times when I still need my single stage press(rockchucker). If you are still considering going with a turret press, I'd take a look at a Redding. That is one nice tool. Looking at getting one myself. Call Lee and they will do the right thing. I've never had any problem out of them.

50 Caliber

07-01-2007, 05:18 PM

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.:( BUT! If that press were Blue it would be replaced for FREE, Not "half the cost of new"[smilie=1:
Im not knocking Lee, I use there dies and priming tool. But I never could get over how flimsy their presses are.

1hole

07-01-2007, 09:01 PM

IF my 20 year old ROCK CHUCKER II dies tomorrow I'll have a Lee Classic Cast by next Saturday. Better press, less money... if strength, features and money mean anything to yawl.

'If not, buy blue. They only cost maybe 5 times as much but you would get that $5 part replaced for free! ;)

Swagerman

07-01-2007, 09:29 PM

Thanks for the pictures, I can see where the pot metal Lee used is a cheap fix for an eventual problem to happen.

However, strongly recomend the Lee Classic cast single stage, or the Classic Cast turret model. They are really built much better than the Challenger press. I understand the frames made from railroad rails. And the handle linkage arrangement is super strong with huge bolts holding it all together.

Have had the Lee Classic Cast single stage going on 3 years. Even swaging lead bullets with it.

Plus, the price is right too at Midway...or, you can get a part from Lee and continue on with the Challenger.

Jim

Old Ironsights

07-01-2007, 09:40 PM

Too many moving parts...

I love my Lee Loaders. Use them more than anything else. ;)

(but yeah, I have a Classic, Knuckle Crusher Hand Press and 1000 too...)

sledgehammer

07-02-2007, 02:01 AM

I use a 3 hole Turret from Lee. I traded in an RCBS and haven't looked back! I read a lot of Lee bashing on the 'net, but here's how I look at it. I have used a Herter's, a Baer Kodiak, a Lyman and a Lee Reloader press. I won't touch a Dillon, they're nice, but not on MY bench. I don't need press parts and cotter-pins in any more of my ammo. That's what I got from the last Dillon-loaded ammo I bought. (machine, not company!)
For $300+, I can buy a LOT of Lee presses, probably get a new one out of pocket every 5 years, for the rest of my reloading life! And still not spend the same $. I can take my 3 hole turret out, screw a die in it UPSIDE0-DOWN for a flat surface, and completely crush a 30/06 brass to 357 mag length, and never a quiver from my LEE.
I recently broke my old-fashioned link, made from the same zinc-whatchamacallit, called Lee and was told to send it back. I broke it sizing 300 Win Mag to 308 Norma Mag.
7 days later I had a new one made from steel, free of charge, no questions asked except what it fit. And it didn't cost me $300+, either! I use their dies, too, when I buy new.
Oh, AND I bought the press used for $15 at a gun shop.:coffee:

Jon H in AZ:castmine:

ez4545

07-02-2007, 05:28 AM

Devastating! a THREE DOLLAR repair!

bill

EMC45

07-02-2007, 04:22 PM

I used to badmouth Lee a lot years ago. Even before I started reloading. I used to say things like If it isn't blue, it's junk. I didn't have a press of any color for that matter. So I ended up getting a Rock Chucker kit and really enjoy it. After I started I was still talking junk to a degree. I bought a set of Lee dies for the 7.5X55 Swiss GASP! I talked with a buddy who started in 67 and he said that the Lee dies were quite good. So I thought I'd give 'em a shot. They ARE good. So I promised myself to stop at dies, because ya know it is just some junky Lee stuff. Then Midway had a promotion for a Lee "c" frame press and a Lee manual for about 22 bucks. So I thought why not? I use the press for decapping and Lee lube sizing. THE HORROR! I realized my Uniflow powder measure wasn't very accurate for handgun powder and debated on the Little Dandy or........... The Lee Perfect Powder measure. Well the thought of having to buy all the different drums and rotors for the Dandy turned me off. So I ended up getting the PPM from Lee. I think it cost 18 bucks. The thing is about as close to perfect as you can get. It. The only thing that I did was loosen the handle tension. So I thought I was out of the woods with buying all this Lee "crap" when all of the sudden a buddy calls and says "hey man I got a tip on some reloading gear a guy is selling, do you want to come and look at it with me?" This buddy was just getting started so he wanted a press. So we went to the guy's house and his friend had a bunch of stuff on the tailgate of his truck. A bunch of Lyman stuff, a tumbler, his 2 scales were already sold, some loading blocks, and believe it or not a "crappy" Lee Classic Cast press. It was never mounted or used for that matter, and he wanted a whopping 30 dollars for it. It was missing the priming arm, but I use a hand held for priming anyway. No box, but it looked like it just came out of one. So I parted with my money and my buddy bought the used Lyman. I mounted the red "turd" to my bench next to the Rockchucker. It reloads handgun ammo where as the RCBS loads rifle ammo. The Classic Cast is 115 bucks on the Lee site BTW. I will never talk trash again nor will anything blue go on my bench. Not because they aren't good, but I like what I got. And if I had to do it all over again I would have gone Lee all the Way!!! So not to hijack or anything, but if you want to sell that "junky" broken Lee press let me know. I'll take it and have them send me the stuff to fix it, then I'll have another red turd on my bench!! P.S. RCBS casts there Rockchuckers in China!!! If I knew that I would never bought from them!!!

IcerUSA

07-03-2007, 03:36 AM

I'll second the Lee Classic Cast Turret, only problem I had was I broke a turret FL sizing 7mm RM and they told me to send it back and I had a new one in about a week, no charge. I load everything I have on it from 9mm to the 7mm RM, have a turret setup for each caliber, 1 setup to FL size as the caliber sets have collet neck sizers on them. 3 FL sizers and a universal depriming die. Another one I'm setting up for priming, it will have the Ram Prime ll on it with one for large and one for small primers, I'm lazy, so I don't have to change them from LP to SP :)

But go and get that one fixed and go for another, you won't be dissatisfied with the perchase what ever you buy.

:castmine: so I can :Fire:, :drinks:

mdatlanta

07-05-2007, 01:19 AM

I have to shake my head when people bash Lee stuff. My Lee Challenger press has been going strong for years and years and has loaded umpteen thousands of rounds without a hitch. When I wanted more speed I got the original 3-hole turret press. Same story--I've loaded thousands more rounds of ammo trouble-free with it. I upgraded to the Classic Cast Turret press last year because Midway was having a sale. It's a great press. My buddy got the hand-me-down "original" turret press and is happily loading ammo trouble-free, too.

I'd suggest the Classic Cast Turret press. You won't be sorry!

:-D

rbstern

07-05-2007, 11:35 AM

Randy, isn't that press still under warranty from Lee? Send the broken part(s) back, and I'm sure they'll send you new ones.

tom barthel

07-05-2007, 06:45 PM

I have purchased the toggles for $3.00 each. That was when I didn't want to ask for a replacement part. It happened a second time when I got in a hurry and wasn't as careful as I should have been. It was absolutely MY fault. I called Lee and was sent a new set of toggles free. I'm a LOT more careful now. I've loaded many thousands of cases. No more problems. Lee always has and always will give you the most bang for your buck. I had a square deal B and gave it away. You do what you want to do and good luck. Keep loading and shooting.

Swagerman

07-05-2007, 07:48 PM

I just missed buying a Lee Challenger press kit for twenty bucks in the classifieds...and that was shipped. Drat!

Was going to use it for bullet sizing with the Lee red reservor container.

Jim [smilie=b:

TAWILDCATT

07-07-2007, 09:49 PM

get the Lee classic turret press its strong and inexpensive.get extra turrets to go with your die sets.the mistake most people make is using a tool for the wrong purpose.I broke a toggle on a lee turret.they sent me a steel replacement.I would
not doubt most co learn as they go along.sometimes what seem to work doesnt.I think dillon presses are very good but there not for every one.the load and lock is a cure for a design failure.but never the less its a good press.I do have RCBS /LYMAN/BONANZA/HERTER and others.but LEE works for me.
and to those bashing Lee be courteous some of us dont have a lot of money.we need more reloaders if we want to survive.were already seeing shortages of lead
brass is going up and powder and primers.for too long gun owners have been too independant and to far out of touch.I have been reloading shooting far longer than most of you and I remember the "good old days"buy a gun walk down street get on bus go home.well its past my bed time so "good nite"9.45est
:coffee: :Fire: :coffee:

Lee

07-08-2007, 12:03 AM

TAWILDCAT, I haven't been reloading far longer than you, but do remember the days when ya bought a gun, walked down the street, got on the bus, went home.
Kids all over had guns, and not just in hunting season, either. No one worried if they had a WMD or IED. "Those" days are gone.....
I currently frequent a gun store built above a grocery-store:shock: ...
Upon purchase, you get to take your toy and march "THRU" the entire store, to exit and get to your car. You should see the looks of the PETA people, yuppies, Brady bunch, and other sheeple as you walk thru the store with your new "black rifle". And get the wink from the owner if he is working the managers station!
Or even better, if he's in a playful mood, will walk behind you, holding your purchase, as you exit the store!! I have seen yuppies go white with fear when they witness this...............................Lee;-)

Lee

07-08-2007, 12:06 AM

Sorry that had nothing to do with presses, but with a name like "LEE" ya can't be all bad. My setups are all Lee. 3 different presses, all do what I want. Only problem I've had is with a decapping pin. Sent it back, got a new one a couple days later. Keep them clean, keep them greased. They're not "blues" or "greens" but the "red turds" have done me well for many years. Just my $0.02.......Lee;-)

copdills

07-09-2007, 01:09 AM

I feel bad for ya, I just bought one from a friend for a few dollars , I don't know how but he lost the handle out of it , going to call lee about a new one, but on the other hand I do have a lee turret press the 3-hole and I like it but if you buy one I suggest the 4-hole turret for the taper crimp die

Good Luck copdills

EMC45

07-10-2007, 10:32 AM

I'm starting to think of all the years I thought the color of a presses skin mattered were spent in vain. Cheap doesn't always equate junk.

PineTreeGreen

07-12-2007, 12:49 AM

I have an RCBS jr. press I bought in 1962 for $29.95 w/primer catcher, lube pad, .30-06 dies and priming arm. Never failed me.[smilie=1:

jdhenry

07-12-2007, 02:27 AM

I have 3 lee presses and no complaints!!!!! Even if they all broke today I would keep buying Lee. :)

David2011

07-16-2007, 01:23 PM

So I use Lee dies in my Dillon 650. Lee makes some nice crimping dies for autoloaders and an undersize sizing die that salvages .40 S&W that's been fired in oversize, unsupported Glock chambers. That allows me to use under $20/1000 range brass in my IPSC gun.

jim4065

07-16-2007, 02:21 PM

I broke a Challenger re-sizing 270 cases to 6.5x55. Bought a Rockchucker and have no regrets - However, I have a Classic turret which is my favorite press. So much better engineering than my Dillon RL450. My only complaint with Lee Classic turret is that you need a Riser for the powder dies on most sets to keep the dispenser from hitting the primer tray on every revolution. Still - it's hard to beat the value you get from Lee.

Arnie

07-19-2007, 01:02 AM

My first three hole turret press had that same thing happen and the part was made out of pot metal .They replaced it for free with one made of steel.Of course i was forming 40/90bn from 45/2.6 cases but i didnt tell them that

handyrandyrc

07-22-2007, 11:33 PM

I give up. I quietly sent the broken links in and within a week, I had new ones in hand, with a note to "make sure you are lubricating your brass when resizing..." lol I have nearly 1000 .223 Rem to deprime/resize, so I started using it again. Got about halfway thru my pile:

http://www.commbloc.net/handyrandyrc/images/broke2.jpg

I took no more than 3 swings with a hammer. It's a 3-piece press now, bound for the recycling heap.

http://www.commbloc.net/handyrandyrc/images/broke3.jpg

Thanks to the guy who sent me the cast iron Lyman Spartan. I could probably pound the old Lyman with a SLEDGEHAMMER repeatedly and it wouldn't do any harm.

Flinchrock

07-23-2007, 04:01 AM

Be careful, someone might think you are a "Lee Basher" :-)
(sorry guys, couldn't resist)

Jim

07-23-2007, 06:07 AM

My experience with Lee is, if it has moving parts, it won't last. I have used their dies for years and never had a problem, but EVERY press I've bought from them has failed in one fashion or another.

EMC45

07-23-2007, 10:32 AM

I'da bought it from ya Handy.

johnp

07-23-2007, 10:49 AM

Well good to see you put it our of your misery. I never did think much of their aluminum press but the cast model seems to be decent.

Swagerman

07-23-2007, 01:59 PM

Guess you didn't use a lot of case lube in sizing your brass, did you???

The cast iron Lee Classic single stage is still going strong for me, haven't sprung any metal linkage and I'm swaging bullets with it.

Jim

bmblong

07-23-2007, 06:51 PM

If we're voting, I second the Lee Classic Cast single stage or 4 hole turret. (I suggest one of each:mrgreen: ) I own them both and I can't imagine breaking a thing on either one.

Sundogg1911

08-07-2007, 11:33 AM

I'm far from being a "Lee Basher" But for certain things you gotta use a stronger press. I have one of those little Lee "C" presses (actually 2 I forgot about the one at camp) I use them for depriming, priming and general case prep. I have a hole in the bench with a peanut butter jar with a hole in the lid screwed under the bench to catch primers. Works great. If i'm sizing brass (single stage) I move down to the next spot on the bench and use my Rock Chucker. I really like Lee Dies ('specially the factory crimp dies) My Lee Auto primes work great. I have a Lee hardness tester. It isn't as easy to use as my Cabin Tree, but it's a cheap backup to use when i'm at camp, and I get accurate readings with it. I have had really bad luck with the Lee Progressive's. I have 3 Dillons now and they work great. I think the Lee stuff defenitly has a place on the bench, you just have to know its limitations. It's like anything else, it's not a one size fits all deal. :castmine:

rugerdude

08-10-2007, 11:40 PM

Everyone talking about press color got me thinking. ALL the presses and sundries on my bench are RED! There's the MEC Sizemaster thats over 20 years old, the Lee Challenger thats over 10 years old, and the Lee Classic single stage that I've had 2 years. With the exception of a Hornady LNL powder measure (its red too!), ALL of my metallic reloading tools are from Lee. They have served me VERY well for no more money than I have tied up in them. And I'll bet you couldn't bust that Classic press with 3 swings of a hammer! :-D

toecutter

08-13-2007, 02:35 AM

More echos of many of the posts here thus far. Lee really is junk, I say this owning a number of lee presses. They are great if money is tight, as they do work, they just never work very well. I recently upgraded from a lee pro 1000 to a dillon 1050 for reloading .223. I can't believe I waited this long loading on that piece of crap lee press. It's the difference between owning a blown out used mid-60's beetle vs a mercedes. My lee press was such a hack, the case ejector was replaced with a reground hack-saw blade to give more reliable ejection of loaded rounds. The case feeder does work, but about 1 in 10 cases tumble out, jamming the machine and require clearing. Not so with the dillon.

Years ago when I first started reloading, I was using a lee reloader press. One day while sizing some tough military brass, the press gave out. That wonderful "C" style press simply cracked in half. I also had a similar problem with the lee priming tool, as it cracked in half when seating a primer, slicing my hand up pretty good. I bought an RCBS partner press to replace it ($45 vs $20) But the RCBS press I regularly use for swaging bullets. The lee press would never stand up to that kind of abuse.

Seriously, buy an RCBS press as a replacement. The other nice thing about non-lee reloading presses is they don't dump the primers in the base of the machine requiring you to unbolt it to empty the spent primers (so frustrating!).

jim4065

08-13-2007, 08:50 AM

My Lee priming tool has to have seated 100,000 primers and is still going strong. The design was slandered by the big boys for years - now Hornady and RCBS both use the same basic design. Guess it isn't that bad after all. :)

I have Lee, RCBS and Hornady presses - and they're like kids. You've got to play to their strong points and compensate for the weaker design elements. Had a Dillon RL450 when they first came out, but I sure don't care whether or not I get another Dillon. They were priced competitively 20 years ago.

I don't like the Lee turret (progressive) much, too finicky - but I use one for 38 Special and 32 ACP. Yea, it's a pita, but it sure can crank out the ammo when it's tuned. Hope my next press is a Redding - people been calling it the Cadillac brand for a long time, and I sure like the looks of the darn things. :coffee: