Which 9 mm heavy boolit for me?

[Petander]

Hello, long time no post.


I have been casting for several years now , everything from 357 to 500. Now I have a couple of nice new 9mm pistols and I was thinking of shooting cast with them after all... I like to cast and otherwise reloading 9 mm doesn´t make much sense. I have not shot 9 mm before much at all, I dumped my 40 and now I shoot 9 mm and 45 only , when we talk autos. Well, 10 mm every now and then as a curiosity but 9 mm is my main IPSC tool. 45 for target.


I want a heavy RN or TC boolit (that goes subsonic for noise issues) but I have no idea what mold too look for. Except the Lee "Lee 6-Cavity Bullet Mold 356-125-2R (356 Diameter) 125 Grain 2 Ogive Radius" which is available over here from Midway... but it´s too light I´m afraid.


A six or four cavity mould, maybe two . Mucho boolits needed.



I shoot a Sig Sauer P228 and a Para 18.9 LDA Ltd , if that´s for any help.



Thanks for any ideas / experience / advice. Just a reliable, heavy , easy casting / loading 9mm boolit. I know there is one somewhere out there. :Fire:

[9.3X62AL]

Lyman still shows #356637 as being in production. This is a 147 grain boolit specifically designed for duplication of 9mm sub-sonic loads. I don't have the mold myself, but a buddy at work gave me a couple hundred a few years ago, and they shot well from my 9mm's--SIG 226 and 228, and a Ruger P-89C.

I don't know how much experience you have with cast boolits in 9mm, but the caliber and its pistols can present some challenges to the reloader, due to dimensional variances in barrels and components and the fast twist rates used in many barrels so chambered. Boolit fit is paramount--both of my SIG-Sauers need .357" boolits. That sizing, plus somewhat hard alloys (92/6/2) and soft lubes (Javelina alox/beeswax) have performed well for me in 9mm. The 9mm is a lot more like a rifle than a handgun when it comes to cast boolit success.

[monadnock#5]

The Lyman 356637 BB RNFP, 147grn. boolit might work for you. It will require experimentation on your part though. I have a Glock 17, and a Browning Hi Power. At the 1.169 seating depth, a loaded round won't chamber in either gun. 1.150 OAL will chamber in the Glock, but not in the Browning. Both barrels slug at .3575/.358.

The 356402 gets the nod for ease of use. Cast, pan lube (no sizing required) and load at 1.169 OAL, and your ready to rock.

[sundog]

I have the RCBS 147 grainer. It's a flat base, and it shoots very well. I think if I were loading and shooting large quantities I might go with the Ly because of the bevel base - might be easier, faster loading. Downside is the BB tends to collect lube where you really don't want or need it. Personally, I don't care for BB boolits. I got my mould NEW at a gun show for $25.

SAECO makes a 145 gr 4-cav mould that would increase production, but it's a little pricey at ~$125. But that's not that much more than the RCBS 2-cav (new). Looks a little like the RCBS. Gee, I might like to have that one!

I've also shot the 358311 and 358156 in several different 9's, and they work. Be careful with charge and seating depth as you just don't have a lot to work with.

[Blammer]

I shot a lot of 120 gr lead Trun cones in my 9 when I was shooting IPSC.

Why do you think the 125 would be too light?

[sundog]

SAECO also makes a 150 in a RN design, I think. Available in 4 banger, also.

[oso]

I, too, prefer a heavier slower load. My favorite 9mm bullet is from a Lyman 356634, TC designed I think as a 130-135 gr .38 Super bullet. My 4 cav drops them at 138 gr with WW. May be difficult to find.
Saeco lists a 140 gr SWC and a couple of 145 grainers (RN and SWC, both bevel base.)
In .38 Super we use the Lyman 356637 and the old Lee 356-153-2R, both drop at about 155 gr with WW.

[lastmanout]

I have had very good success using 158-160 grain bullets (150 keith RCBS and Lee 158rf ) sized .358" cast from wheel weight alloy. I like a small charge of Unique powder or something slower. As mentioned c.o.l. is criticial. .010" shorter CAN boost pressures into the danger zone. I shoot mine in a glock 34. Kinda hesitate to give my exact load, too many little differences could make it unsafe for others. Accuracy of my loads in my pistol is very good, someitmes matching the revolvers. 1" at 15 yards, 5 shots:Fire:

[Petander]

Great, thanks for all the replies.





Why do you think the 125 would be too light?


I generally like heavy bullets. And I much prefer less noise, you know when shooting outside a fast 9 mm makes insane noise compared to, say, a heavier 45 ACP that goes subsonic. Much less noise in the neighborhood.


With a heavy boolit I can get full power without the hypersonic crack.

[Blammer]

ahhhh, good reason, never thought of that before....

[Buckshot]

..............I don't have a 9x19 but I do have a 38 Super and it REALLY likes that 147gr BB Lyman. It's a Tanfoglio Witness and is a pretty 'un-fussy' feeder as it also feeds and shoots this:

http://www.fototime.com/94E23D0AC147FC1/standard.jpg

It's the RCBS 38-162 SWC-GC. Of coarse the cartridge's OAL limitations may make this a non-starter. I really don't know. However, don't overlook the 38/357 designs as they easily size down and depending upon your pistol, might not need much sizing at all.

.................Buckshot

[fecmech]

Lee has a 150 grn .358 1R roundnose in the 6 cavity and that should work just fine in a 9MM. I have their discontinued 150gr. 2R and it is a great heavy "9" bullet and the most accurate bullet out of my out of my Rossi single shot .357 Rifle.

[Petander]

Lee has a 150 grn .358 1R roundnose in the 6 cavity and that should work just fine in a 9MM. I have their discontinued 150gr. 2R and it is a great heavy "9" bullet and the most accurate bullet out of my out of my Rossi single shot .357 Rifle.


Funny how I failed to notice that one. :coffee:


Thanks a lot, I ´ll probably give it a try because it´s available here in Midway Finland - this will be my first six cavity Lee. The boolit shape looks good for a semiauto I think.

[Petander]

I´m getting there:

just fired a few test rounds using a .357 boolit, I forgot a Lee dual cavity mold I have here, a 158 grain RF 358. I had a bunch already sized (357) boolitas from that mold, they worked fine with a suppressed Beretta Storm carbine .

VV N320 may be a little fast, some cases got those nasty "bumps" in the rear... but there was not much noise at all really.



If this boolit works on my other 9mm guns I´ll get a similar sixbanger from Lee. Chrono time tomorrow.

[mstarling]

Have used the Lyman 358477 150 gr SWC in 9mm, 9x21, and Super. Works very nicely.

[Petander]

Yep, this boolit works fine:

I have a 950 fps load going on right now, I get nice accuracy with the P228 and especially the Beretta Storm carbine. I´ll go faster with a slower powder, I´ll just use up this fast N320 first.

On the other hand, these rounds won´t chamber in the Para without a touch of "shrinking", that would be the LFC die when done correctly. I used a .357 Mag sizer/decapper die ( obviously without the pin) for "shrinking" some rounds about .001" and that was enough for them to chamber.

No idea about the accuracy with those skinny rounds yet. My boolit is too big for the Para, that´s all. The two other "9:s"are large in every way and feed just about anything anyway. Big boolits= good thing.



While waiting for the sixbanger I made some 400 - 500 boolits tonight with a two cavity mold. I like most of my Lee molds, they are okay once you learn to use them. Some haven´t worked at all though.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I have what I think is an insanely good design for 9mm that would fulfill your wishes. Trouble is, I'm having trouble getting the drawing for it... (hint, hint. [smilie=1: )

Glad you found something that works well. Watch the group buy forum here for my design, when it comes out.

[Petander]

Watch the group buy forum here for my design, when it comes out.

Now you made me curious. Any idea about the schedule?

[FISH4BUGS]

I´m getting there:

just fired a few test rounds using a .357 boolit, I forgot a Lee dual cavity mold I have here, a 158 grain RF 358. I had a bunch already sized (357) boolitas from that mold, they worked fine with a suppressed Beretta Storm carbine .

If this boolit works on my other 9mm guns I´ll get a similar sixbanger from Lee. Chrono time tomorrow.

I hope you are not putting those cast bullets through a can! I shoot all my 9mm subsonic through a Bowers CAC9 supressor on my submachine guns and after about 5000 rounds it crudded up badly with lead deposits. The manufacturer was shocked! He said go ahead and shoot lead through it....no problem! He was rather surprised to say the least at the result!
If you are going to shoot lead through the can, I would talk with the manufacturer of the can. Make sure they are OK with your shooting lead thorough it.
I shoot 147gr RN FMJ bullets for all my 9mm my subsonic loads....the only jacketed bullets I buy.....and 380's that go through the can also in a MAC.

[Petander]

If you are going to shoot lead through the can, I would talk with the manufacturer of the can. Make sure they are OK with your shooting lead thorough it.


I´ve been shooting lead "through a can" for decades before my casting career, tens of thousands of mixed 22 LR rounds through various rifles / pistols. Never ruined a can.

I also use a 308 and a 45-70 as subsonic , using cast. Cans are still ok. If 9 mm is different for some reason... I don´t see why it would be. The only thing that comes to mind is the boolit mechanically touching something in the can? But if that happens it means the can is not lined up with the barrel - and the accuracy is gone.

I think I´ll keep shooting , I´ll find out about it that way. Cans are commonly used, all legal and very cheap up here. Thanks for the heads up anyway. :drinks:

[Petander]

I got this Lee sixbanger on thursday.


Very good mold really, I´m impressed. I get nice looking , silky boolits drop by drop, very easy to cast. This one likes it pretty hot, almost frosty. Boolits drop out the mold almost by themselves. Weight variation in extremely small, the boolits are 160 grains exactly, less than +/- 0.5 grains variation which is fine for my 9 mm use. Diameter is solid .358. I only cleaned and lubed it lightly.


Fast production, good boolits. Much better than I expected, looks like these "sixes" are seriously made for serious use. I must admit I was kinda biased a little, my other Lee molds ( doubles) are ok but not great, so to speak.


But this one is in another ballpark I think. I could use another one for .45 ACP some day. I have made some 1000+ boolits with this one by now in two easygoing sessions. Good stuff. :drinks:

[Petander]

Now this is very funny:


The new 358-158-RF is completely different boolit compared to my old one! I just noticed, I´ve been only casting the new ones, shooting the old -but I never took a good look to compare the two because I thought they are the same. :coffee:


I made some test loads and found out that:

The new one is a little shorter with a much wider meplat and the crimp groove is in a different place, luckily keeping more boolit inside the case. It seems to chamber in all my "9":s . Obviously because the new one -despite the wider nose - measures .356 at the shoulder, the old one is .358 after sizing... some luck here, now my load development has to re-start from the scratch.

Oddly enough, even though the new boolit has .050 or .060 more boolit inside the case, the velocity is still the same with my old charge? I thought it should be faster, maybe it´s because of my very fast powder?


Anyway, the new one seemed to group ok with a carbine. Now back to the drawing board to adjust the dies. :castmine:

[FISH4BUGS]

I´ve been shooting lead "through a can" for decades before my casting career, tens of thousands of mixed 22 LR rounds through various rifles / pistols. Never ruined a can.

I also use a 308 and a 45-70 as subsonic , using cast. Cans are still ok. If 9 mm is different for some reason... I don´t see why it would be. The only thing that comes to mind is the boolit mechanically touching something in the can? But if that happens it means the can is not lined up with the barrel - and the accuracy is gone.

I think I´ll keep shooting , I´ll find out about it that way. Cans are commonly used, all legal and very cheap up here. Thanks for the heads up anyway. :drinks:

You are indeed fortunate. Here in the US we must pay a $200 tax stamp for the transfer of a supressor to an approved individual. You get approved exactly the same way you get approved for a machine gun. Europe has a far better better attitude about supressors than we here in the US. Here they are treated EXACTLY the same as the government treats a machine gun.
Your point about 9mm being different is interesting. Perhaps if one is not shooting full auto the heat buildup is less. However, the mount on my current supressor is based upon a screw on thread that is quite coarse. It is based upon the MAC series of submachineguns, and the threads do not seem to provide as tight a lockup as a three point mount or a snap on mount. I have had some baffle strikes in the past.
I would, based upon your cost of the supressor and the fact they are cheap and legal, I would not hesitate to shoot the daylights out of your supressors even with lead bullets. So what if it loads up? You can replace it easily. we have to go through hell to get one and they are expensive.

[45nut]

The laws here regarding suppressors are inane and insanely stupid IMHO. I disagree with the machine gun laws as well, but the association of a piece of tubing being inherently evil is so stupid as to be insulting to even the ignorant among the gun culture. Take a device that could prevent hearing damage to millions of shooters and make it basically "unobtainium". It's stupid, dangerous and offensive in spirit.

[FISH4BUGS]

The laws here regarding suppressors are inane and insanely stupid IMHO. I disagree with the machine gun laws as well, but the association of a piece of tubing being inherently evil is so stupid as to be insulting to even the ignorant among the gun culture. Take a device that could prevent hearing damage to millions of shooters and make it basically "unobtainium". It's stupid, dangerous and offensive in spirit.

All it would take would be for one gang banger to have a supressed Glock and shoot someone with it. INSTANT DEMAND from the criminals. I don't like adding $200 to the cost of a supressor that is already overpriced to begin with, but I would HOPE that the tight regulation, and serious criminal penalties for illegal possesion, would be enough to keep the bad guys (or the vast majority of them anyway) from illegally buying and using a supressor..........and we get to enjoy the "coolness" factor LEGALLY at our local range when we screw on a the can and fire away.
My local range does not allow full auto shooting. But they did NOT say we couldn't shoot semi auto with a supressor.........drives 'em NUTS! I love it. They seem to think that shotguns are the only gun to own and shoot....nice to be in their face with a supressed MAC or S&W76 or M16!

[Petander]

Yeah I know about your laws considering suppressors.

On the other hand, up here we need almost as much paperwork, money and all kinds of bureaucracy to get a basic permit for buying a gun in the first place. It´s a million times easier - and often cheaper - to buy an illegal gun. :confused:


Anyway, I spent another three hours casting yesterday. The mold itself is working very well -but one handle is starting to crack in half. I should have fixed the handles right away with a screw or a rivet. Typical Lee, I can still fix it but it´s just plain funny that it didn´t last for more than four days / casting sessions. :coffee:



I´m still using a very primitive but effective setup, here are three boolit piles, one hour ( 500-600 boolits ) each:



http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p186/Karbureettori/casting/Fourth-9mm-session.jpg


http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p186/Karbureettori/casting/9mm-castingview.jpg



I usually cast for about an hour, then take a break and walk away to
stretch, relax, eat, drink, watch some TV, whatever. Then another hour and another break. Three hours is also good for this mold / lead pot combo to get it empty. And 5000+ boolits in four days with no sweat at all is something I never thought possible. With this mold it´s easy to keep up efficient production and take it easy at the same time.


:castmine:

[45nut]

nice piles of boolits there bud,,there is a satisfaction just from looking at them,much less the grin from getting to shoot them!

[FISH4BUGS]

nice piles of boolits there bud,,there is a satisfaction just from looking at them,much less the grin from getting to shoot them!

......cutting your wood from log length trees, splitting it, and stacking it and turning it into the nicest stacked cordwood laid in for winter. I don't know about you, but I can look at my new wood pile for some time and get the pleasure of knowing it is done. We get kinda weird here in NH in the fall knowing winter is just around the corner.
Likewise, buckets of newly rendered WW ingots and a pile of freshly cast bullets bring on the same reaction.
Are we a strange bunch or what?