Ten Thousand primers.

[Catshooter]

Friend of mine a few weeks ago showed me his new H&K P30 (proud papa). I've never handled one before and found it an interesting piece of engeneering.

Couple of days ago we were talking and he said the dang thing wouldn't shoot. He said it shoots like two and a half feet low left at seven or eight yards. I had explained low/left shooting for a right-hander to him before and brought it up again. He said ya ya, but he did it really carefully and his wife and another buddy had the same problem.

I said hmm. Pistol didn't look that bad.

So I went out and shot it when he wasn't home. At fifteen yards I put all fifteen in a round little two inch group. Windy, twenty eight degrees, and I'm not a great pistol shot anymore. Oh and and WW White box to boot. Group was dead on point of aim. :)

When he got home I told him to go look at the target, call me.

He said what the hell? I said yup, you and the other two shooters are squeezing all your fingers when you shoot.

How do I fix?

I said ten thousand primers. By the time you shoot all ten thousand we'll have you fixed up.

I'll be teaching to cast & load here shortly. :)


Cat

[BruceB]

This is a perfect opportunity for the "ball and dummy" exercise, or alternatively, a place for YOU to load (or not) the gun and hand it to him, without his knowing the state of the firearm until he tries to fire it.

If it happens to be unloaded, both you and he will immediately know where the problem lies!

I once had a stubborn student who SWORE there was "something wrong" with the rifle he was shooting, a .303 that was "grouping" in about two feet at 25 yards. When *I* tried it, all five bullets cut a single hole.... I gave it back to him with the comment that it didn't seem as if the rifle was at fault.....

[nhrifle]

A conversation I've had many times at the range. Some folks will listen to and absorb whatever you try and teach them. Sometimes you run into some shooters who, after you have told and shown them how to correct shooting problems, prove you wrong by doing things exactly how they had been doing them, then get some other inexperienced shooters to prove you wrong by doing the exact same thing. I have just learned to say "Na na na na na na". Of course, that's just my internal smartalec self coming out.

[HighHook]

That is a big reason for the plastic dummy snap caps. Dry fire at your home.

[JLDickmon]

I developed the bad habit of grabbing the handle of my bow once.. I taped a thumbtack point up to the back of the handle.. never did it again

[Thumbcocker]

A gunsmith friend of mine once told me the hardest thing he ever has to say to a customer is that there is nothing wrong with the gun.

[Blammer]

In all seriousness. If you recommend that he shoot 400 rounds that should really help him a bunch. It's a little more realistic from the laymans point of view. Yea If I shot 10,000 rounds in a year, I would definitely be very very good. I'm sure my point shooting would be superb. :)

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Until a little over a year ago, I didn't own a pistol. I had only owned/shot rifles and wasn't too bad of a shot. I was pretty disappointed in my shooting when I bought my first pistol, but shooting a couple times a week quickly improved my shooting. Buying a .22 pistol and casting so I could shoot more and reload lighter rounds and work up helped a lot, too. I've probably sent 5000 pistol rounds down range over the past year, can't wait to see what the paperwork on next 5000 looks like!

Glad to see that the gun was actually shooting correctly though. I spent several range session thinking I REALLY stunk with a pistol because a particular brand of factory ammo was tumbling out of my pistol. It was so bad I could only hit paper once or twice out of five at 25 yards. Switched brands and I actually started shooting groups!

[Chicken Thief]

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/correction.jpg

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

for those on a budget lots of dry firing with a target on the far wall if the room if the hammer falls and the sights are not still on the target , back to work , over and over ,and over

I had a student sure there was something wrong with the sights on his pistol . i tried it hitting 3 pigs at 60 yards with 3 shots . handed it back to him and said i thought they were right on

I keep a little 32S&W pocket pistol around , with a horrendous trigger pull and terrible grips . i gave 20 dollars for it , a box of shells is as much as the gun
i keep it loaded with 5 spent brass sitting on my desk and i have a target on the far wall of my office

if you can pull it's very heavy, rough, loading trigger all while keeping the sights on a target on the far side of the office , you can make any decent gun shoot well.

[nhrifle]

Friring alot of ammo is a good start, but unless it also comes with good instruction, it's just shooting.

There is alot that goes into making a shot that gets taken for granted by those who have learned it, and most new shooters assume you just pick the thing up, point it in the general direction, and blast away.

Trigger firnger position on the trigger, trigger pull, grip, stance, breathing, eye dominance, and especially follow through.

Good post above about the S&W pocket pistol. I have an 1895 Nagant revolver that has the worst trigger pull I have ever experienced. That could also make a great teaching tool.

[starmac]

Well you just wrecked my budget. I thought I was pretty well stocked up on pistol primers, now I find out I need to go get another couple thousand. lol

[bootsnthejeep]

Yup, gotta say, burning up a whole lot of ammo is just converting money into noise with wasted repetitions of bad habits.

[Catshooter]

Don't worry boys, his budget can stand it and I'll make sure he isn't doing the wrong thing ten thousand times in a row. :)


Cat

[garym1a2]

If you want to get good with a pistoel or even a rifle its not that expensive. Just get a couple 22's and burn a few dozen bricks.

[nhrifle]

Catshooter, if you send those primers to me, I will do an outstanding instructional video for them, have them shooting right in a week. I'll even give you top billing in the credits! :Fire:

:bigsmyl2:

[Chicken Thief]

Why not use laser cartridges?
The red dot will show him where the muzzzle is pointing.
http://www.amazon.com/LASER-BORE-SIGHTER-CARTRIDGE-SIGHT/dp/B006IIOTGE

[MT Gianni]

Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. Perfect prectice starts with the mind and works it's way down through the body.

[drklynoon]

Awesome thread. I have been shooting hand guns for a little while now and have to say, Mistakes still crop up from time to time. I have always fought tightening my grip as I pull the trigger. It's something I am conscious about but still it crops up now and then. Another poster mentioned stance, I have noticed that if I am not turned enough, through the shoulders, with respect to the target I shoot a little high. Experience IMO does not make one perfect but does teach you to know when and what mistakes you are making so you can adjust. I shoot at a semi-public range and am amazed at the bad habits that are being taught to new shooters. Eventually, they will learn to cope with the form or they will quit but I am always bewildered at "teachers" handy-capping their students with difficult stances or difficult guns.

[Catshooter]

Why nhrifle, what a generous offer! Watch for 'em in the mail. :)


Cat

[williamwaco]

Some times you get what you expect.

I took a fist time shooter to the range last week.
He had just purchased his first firearm. A S&W M&P .22.

I explained how to hold, sight and squeeze.
To my amazement, his first shot was about 2 inches low and left of the point of aim.
I told him to continue. After ten shots he had a hand sized group centered at that same location.
He asked if we need to adjust the sights. I told him to keep going until he had four groups of 24 shots ( 12 round mags. )

He wound up with a combined group of about 8" at ten yards centered about three inches low and left of point of aim.
I was astonished at how well he had done. It was the first time he had ever fired a gun of any kind.

He said he was convinced we needed to adjust the sights.
I told him OK but first let me try it.
I took it. Set it on a sandbag rest and shot one magazine. 12 shots in a group measuring 0.80 inch at 12 O'clock, exactly one inch above the point of aim.

I put him up a new target and told him to try a another couple of magazines.
When he finished, I asked him what did he notice.

He didn't notice it as he was shooting but after the fact, he was amazed that he has a 6" group centered exactly on the point of aim.
I told him that was one fine little handgun and it didn't need any adjustments. It was perfect right out of the box.

Many times you get what you expect.

.

[drklynoon]

I would think it is easier to teach a person to shoot who has not learned prior habits or believes they are a better shot than they are.

[chrisw]

a rule the NCAA had was no more than 10 hours/week live fire practice. A rule we had was no less than 10 hours shooting and a 1-1 ratio dry to live firing (Total 20 hours on range). If your good, you know where it hit, loaded or not.

1st place, 1993 US Championship inter-collegiate team