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muffinman
06-29-2007, 06:12 PM
Anybody know the pressure limit of the buffalo classic? Is it trapdoor or levergun or Ruger#1. Oh its .45-70 model. thanks

cabezaverde
06-29-2007, 07:28 PM
Anybody know the pressure limit of the buffalo classic? Is it trapdoor or levergun or Ruger#1. Oh its .45-70 model. thanks

I believe it is suitable for modern lever gun loads.

MtJerry
06-29-2007, 07:40 PM
cabezaverde is correct ... :drinks:

Scrounger
06-29-2007, 07:41 PM
I believe it is suitable for modern lever gun loads.

H&R puts these same actions out in .44 Magnum, .500 S&W, .270, etc. I'm not sure they even consider the various loading levels of the .45-70. Let's just say I'm not in complete agreement with them on suitable calibers for that action... But just an opinion.

SharpsShooter
06-29-2007, 07:59 PM
You will not likely go much above levergun load levels. Recoil will quickly become the deciding factor.

SS

muffinman
06-29-2007, 09:39 PM
Thanks guys this is probably just going to be used as my first bpcr but just wanted to find out about pressures.

lovedogs
06-29-2007, 10:23 PM
A quick call to their 800 number will tell you that they make their actions in three different strengths. Your BC .45-70 is limited to mid-strength, like the lever guns made by Marlin. And, as stated, you won't want to go higher anyway as this light rifle will really get your attention with mid-level loads.

hpdrifter
07-04-2007, 02:44 PM
So, if you bought a 30-06 Handi, then a Buffalo classic barrel, it could be a full strength.

I have a hard time swallowing the three different strength idea. Now, I know the shotgun and the rimfires are different than the rifles, but I don't think and have never heard of three different strength rifle receivers, except for the old and the newer.

JeffinNZ
07-04-2007, 04:53 PM
I am not sure you can compare the .30-06 and .45-70 in this action as head thrust comes into play.

I am not expert on anything but I recall reading about a Lee Enfield No.4 conversion to .223 Rem. Even though the .223 generates pressures considered beyond the normal limits of the LE action the decided factor was "head thrust" and for the .223 the thrust is less than .303 British so the conversion is OK.

Scrounger
07-04-2007, 06:27 PM
I am not sure you can compare the .30-06 and .45-70 in this action as head thrust comes into play.

I am not expert on anything but I recall reading about a Lee Enfield No.4 conversion to .223 Rem. Even though the .223 generates pressures considered beyond the normal limits of the LE action the decided factor was "head thrust" and for the .223 the thrust is less than .303 British so the conversion is OK.

Those Enfields have also been commercially rebarrelled into .308 Winchesters and .45-70s. But I too have doubts about .30-06 or high level .45-70s in that H&R action.

Freightman
07-04-2007, 07:21 PM
If you can take the recoil more power to you, I have three 45/70's a rolling block which I shoot BP only a Shiloah Sharps and the BC. The BC will get your attention a lot faster than the other two. For better information go to greaybeard outdoors site and he has a NEF/H&R section.

hpdrifter
07-04-2007, 10:57 PM
sorry fellas, I meant that as a rhetorical question.

I agree, levergun loads in the BC is punishment enough.

Mickey Rat
07-04-2007, 11:05 PM
I had an early H&R Shakari (Handi-Rifle ancestor) in 44 Mag that had been rechambered to 444 Marlin. I hand loaded heavy loads for it. It was accurate but the recoil was unreal.

I agree that you will find your own limit BEFORE you find the gun's limit.

Congrats on your choice. I have wanted one for a while.

Freightman
07-05-2007, 06:12 PM
Loaded five of each a 300g LFPPB , a 405 LFPHB , 450 LFPGC and a 500 g LSPPB with 51.3 g of IMR 4895, the recoil went up as the boolit weight went up. It wasn't to bad but I did shoot less in the BC than I did in the Sharps 7#/13# lots of difference.

axman
07-05-2007, 07:56 PM
I was told about 10 years ago that the 45-70s were in the marlin range of pressure limits,but some factors are the time frame of when the guns were built because the shikari is an h&r action it is supposedly the weakest, next are the 45-70 guns that nef, h&r 1871 started making 10 to 15 years ago including the buffalo classic which were I was told were the same action as the higher pressure cals.3006,35whelen etc, but the 30-30s,44mags 357s and 4570s were not heat treated actions, but the higher pressure were heat treated. From what I got from talking to NEF a few months back all the actions now made are basically the same as far as strength go's. It all boils down to the ser.# range of when your gun was built. Back to the H&R shikari Ken Waters in the 7th ed.handloaders digest lists it in group 1 along with the trapdoors. I'll try to find it but I have the ser# prefix for the actions that I was told that you could put any of accessory bbl's now avail. on.

Freightman
07-05-2007, 08:16 PM
Here is an intresting link to tell how you tell the year of manufacture http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,26264.0.html

nicholst55
07-06-2007, 10:23 AM
NEF rates their Handi-Rifles to take load data for the 95 Marlin and 86 Winchester. I asked them after I saw mention of it on a specialty ammo manufacturer's website. And I agree with the poster who said that with the light weight and steel buttplate, you'll stop short of the 'Ruger Only' loads anyway!

Junior1942
07-06-2007, 11:02 AM
Here is an intresting link to tell how you tell the year of manufacture http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,26264.0.html
Thanks for that link. I was able to date my Shakiri 44 mag to 1974.

Dead Calm
07-14-2007, 01:57 PM
I had an H&R Buffalo Classic and always used the reloading data for the Marlin 1895. I had no problems at all, and it was very accurate!! Art

JohnH
07-15-2007, 09:14 AM
The most telling rating is that NEF chambered the rifle in 450 Marlin, a 43,000 PSI load.

snuffy
07-29-2007, 12:04 PM
I had the same question! Friday was new gun day! It's the H&R buffalo classic 45-70. I already have a H&R trapdoor calvary model replica, so I have dies, molds and J-bullets for it.

The gunshop owner said he asked Hogdgon about appropriate pressure levels for it. They told him to limit it to trapdoor levels. So I loaded some 300 Hornady hp, and some pure lead lee 405 hp's with IMR 4759, 24, 25, and 26 grains. I was worried about getting marked up by that steel butt plate, so out came the past magnum recoil shield. I also had some leftover 405's loaded with surplus 4895, 45.0 grains. I stopped testing those in the trapdoor, just hurt too much to continue![smilie=1: In the H&R, they were a handful, but not too much, as it's heavier than the TD, and this time I was using the past pad.

Chronograph said they were averaged out at 1560 with an extreme spread of 44.3. Group @50 yds. was 2.5 inches, not the greatest. The j bullets went into a 1.117 5 shot group. These pure lead boolits are too soft to shoot good. I plan on making some up from 18 BHN alloy, then we'll see better groups, I betcha!

I REALLY like the target sights! My 61 year old eyes can't see open blade type sights, the rear peep with the as supplied peep front sight worked real well with the florescent yellow bullseye fitting right in it! Also the trigger was a pleasant surprise! My Lyman digital trigger guage has it breaking CLEANLY at 3.5 pounds average.:mrgreen: That means I don't have to bother with doing a trigger job. Those are a (female dog) to do! It's fine just the way it is.

I feel real confident that I can go up to lever gun levels, provided I can tolerate the recoil. Hodgdon says 50.0 is tops for the 405, don't know if I would go that high, might not need to.

The gunshop owner, a long time friend, showed me a RCBS bullet, a 300 RNFP GC. I'm going to see if he'll borrow it to me for a casting session, looks like a good plinker, if it shoots for me, I'll buy one.

cohutt
08-31-2007, 06:57 PM
I filled the stock with lead shot and it bumped the weight up form 8-ish to 12-ish i think. Made a big difference in recoil to my candy-*ssed shoulder.



I like the 1200 fps loads with a big 440g nearly pure lfn. Unique works well for this, surpised me.
Also use rcbs 330g mold, Trailboss or Unique.

All i've been doing is plinking with it- knocking over short logs, stand on end out 100-200 yards.

Trailboss and the 440g bullet is interesting novelty load- rolls out well under 1100, no kick or supersonic crack. You have to aim like a mortar practically when over 50 yards... I imiagine it would still leave quite a mark.

reloader62
08-31-2007, 07:33 PM
I wish I would have seen this thread sooner ,I Bought A Buff classic ,not sure which 'type' of gun to apply it to my reloads ,having few powders to choose from,but used the Lee book which said 300 g. jacketed bullet & 61 g of H335 [starting load], it chronied at 2274-2314fps , when the book stated I should get around 1700 I started to worry about what pressure that was. But ,nothing looks bad with the brass, but it sure shot high off the target. Oh ,I DO use a 'limbsaver' for sure ,you can shoot all day with it, otherwise 5 shells & I was done ! Does this load sound dangerous is my question ?

Freightman
08-31-2007, 07:54 PM
The reason you may be getting more volocity is the 32" barrel and the loads were more than likley from a 22-24" barrel. I get 2100 +- in some of my loads, but most are in the 1500' class. I ordered a new stock for mine with a pad, makes all the difference in the world, if I want to look like a buffalo hunter I will use my 1874 Sharps. No the load doesn't sound dangerous.

RayinNH
08-31-2007, 08:24 PM
reloader62, I'm not sure where you found your data. Lee Manual #1 doesn't list a 300 gr. jacketed bullet load using H335. Lee Manual #2 lists 61 grs of H335 in both the lever gun loads and the Ruger #1 loads. In the lever gun category 61 grs. is a start and max. load for a velocity of 2115 fps. at a pressure of 22,500 CUP. In the Ruger #1 load level, 61 grs. is a start load for a velocity of 2073 fps. and max. load being 68 grs. for a velocity of 2326 fps. at a pressure of 38,800 PSI.

The Buffalo Classic falls in the lever gun loads category if I'm not mistaken. As to your question about being dangerous, yes at both ends of the barrel. A little too energetic for my liking even if it's safe pressure wise...Ray

reloader62
08-31-2007, 08:55 PM
Yes I looked again , your correct on the Lee#2 & 2115 fps for 'le ver gun' catagory. That was what at 1st I was concerned with , just what catagory to place this gun ,Its not as strong I wouldnt think as a Ruger #1,but its not an old trapdoor. I was worried how strong that locking system was. Later I think I'll get to casting for it.

big bore 99
07-26-2014, 05:38 PM
Just started getting into casting for my buffalo classic. Used the J with it for a few years and very accurate at 100 yds. Bought the Lee 340, 405 and 500gc molds for it. Anyone have any experience or tips for these? Gonna go with 2ff eventally, but now have some IMR 4198. Gonna tackle the problems with cast before changeing powders. I know how that butt plate wallops you, so I stay around the trapdoor area.