Different hulls, different wads.

[littlejack]

Hey, all you hull stuffers.
I have split a few hulls (3), to look at the internal profile of the same. Two were Remington. One Gun Club (green ribbed), and one black hull (ribbed) which were the same in their inner profile.
The third, was a Fiocchi ribbed target hull.
The basic difference was that the Remingtons (both) were tapered inside, and plastic bases were the same height.
When setting a WAA12 wad to where the powder would come up to in the hull, the wad fit the inside of the hull perfect. No gap between the inside of the case wall and the outside of the wad base seal.

Now, on the Fiocchi hull, the inside profile was straight, no taper. The WAA12 wad has approximately .040 to.050 of gap between the inside of the case wall and the outside of the wad base seal. I even tried a WAA12R, and the fit was the same, GAP.
With this being said, WAH-SUP? There is a great probability, that the powder is going to leak by the base wad seal in the Fiocchi hull.
Is there a tighter fitting wad for the Fiocchi hull that will not allow the powder to leak by the wad?
Aren't all of the wads the same diameter for a given guage? If so, how is it possible to stop the powder from migrating forward?
Jack

[Alan in Vermont]

[QUOTE=littlejack;1969438] Aren't all of the wads the same diameter for a given guage? /QUOTE]

No, they aren't. Wads made for tapered cases have small OD at the sealing cup section.

Used to be that W-W AA and Rem. RXP cases used tapered wads and could both use the same wad as the internal construction was so close to identical. I'm not 100% sure but it seems that the new, el cheapo, stuff from Rem(Gun Club) and W-W(Universal) are very close to the internal dimensions of the old AA/RXP, use the same tapered wads and loading data.

The differences in internal construction, with effects on case volume and powder charges, is why a loading manual is so critical for safe shotshell loading. If you look at a manual you will see different wads listed for different shell brands. One can get overwhelmed by the huge number of possible combinations of shell/primer/powder/wad for any one shot weight. Change any of the ingredients and it's safe money to go back to the book and start over.

[shotman4]

you also will find the fiocchi primer is different too. most american primers will fit loose in the hull.
If you dont have a bunch to save I would not mess with them

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings LittleJack, the remedy to your problem is:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Powerslipping.jpg
Take any regular photocopy or notebook paper and cut 1 inch squares and push it on top of the powder followed by the wad.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Lyman525loadwadscopy.jpg
another problem is gases blow-by and as you can see the upper part of the wad is blackened by passing gases.
Each manufacturer has a mind of his own and is free to do what ever he wants.
You will find shotgun barrels starting from paper thin to bull barrel, its scarry to mention any loads as you do not know who with what type of gun
will use that load!

" No man is a failure, who is enjoying life" - William Feather

" A happy man is one who loads his own slugs and burn's powder at the range" - Blazing Sabots!

Time to start cooking your own, home cooked meal ( Sabot slug )

Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost!
Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
Blazing Sabots, LLC
www.BlazingSabots.com
http://www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

[littlejack]

Thank you fellas for your posts.
How can the testing institutions come up with consistant and proper pressures if the wads fit the cases differently?
I know, that they have all this (supposedly) figured out. I really wonder?
If a person uses a wad that has clearance with the inside case wall, and then uses a wad that does not have clearance, there are
going to be different pressures.
Jack

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello LittleJack, its a jungle out there for reloader's but we will with shooter's like you change things slowly but surely.

When you buy loaded ammo all components are custom made to fit each other for Max load efficiency and so will the Blazing Sabot's and our line of components!

" No man is a failure, who is enjoying life" - William Feather

" A happy man is one who loads his own slugs and burn's powder at the range" - Blazing Sabots!

Time to start cooking your own, home cooked meal ( Sabot slug )

Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost!
Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
Blazing Sabots, LLC
www.BlazingSabots.com
http://www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

[sargenv]

My best advice to anyone wanting to start reloading shotshells is to get one of the fine publications on specifically reloading shotshells. Lyman makes one and there is at least one other book out there.. I know books are old hat these days, but they still contain lots of useful info that you may not be able to learn on "the net" as quickly.. I still refer to those books and they have lots of useful data. Otherwise I'd read up on the reloading sections of Hodgdon and Alliant web sites and check out the data they have for the various different hulls they offer data for.

[35remington]

"Is there a tighter fitting wad for the Fiocchi hull that will not allow the powder to leak by the wad?
Aren't all of the wads the same diameter for a given guage? If so, how is it possible to stop the powder from migrating forward?"

I find it interesting that despite all these posts preceding mine that no one mentioned there are wads made specifically for straight walled hulls and wads made for tapered wall hulls. Federal wads are examples of wads made for straight wall hulls.

Odd that this was not mentioned. This solves the original poster's problem, and answers his question, quite neatly.

Not the problem it was made out to be now, is it?

[littlejack]

35:
Thank you for your post.
That is information that I was looking for. I knew that folks loaded their Fiocchi hulls, but no one spoke of the wads that they
used to do it with.
Jack

[Vinne]

littlejack, I checked my Data Log book for the load I use in the Fiocchi hull. I list the Claybuster wad 12S3 with 17g of Red dot behind 1 1/8 shot. You can go to 17.5 of Red Dot. My old load was 16g of WW 473AA behind 1 1/8 shot with the same wad but when I used up all my 473 I went to Red Dot and have no problems with either load.

Hope this helps, Vinne

[runfiverun]

the straight walled hulls are called reifenheusen hulls.
they have a little more internal capacity,but require a wad made that's cylindrical.
the fiocchi hulls also used to be a little shorter than other hulls 67mm versus 70mm [airc] the straight walls are used to gain back some capacity
they do have an extrememly nice looking wad though.
anyway you will see different recipes that will allow you to use win wads or even the rem r-12L wad in the straight walled hulls.
and sometimes the fed wads in winchester hulls.
the difference will be in velocity and pressure, so you will see a different amount [or kind=burn rate] of powder used.
the claybuster wads you'll notice will be the same/different too, such as a figure8 white and figure8 red, one is for straight cases and one for tapered.

target hulls are pretty simple, wait untill you get into stuff like the remington/federal 3" hunting hulls.
either way they are just like metallic reloading components, where you will have different internal capacity's and the loads will be based on those capacity's plus the crush section of the wad used.
the harder the crush section the higher the velocity, the better the seal the same thing happens.
you pay the price in pressure too however.

[35remington]

While you do see data for tapered wads in straight walled hulls, be advised they are not as desirable as using the correct wad, and in cold weather problems may arise that do not occur on an 85 degree day on the skeet field.

In other words, the correct components are always the way to go.

[littlejack]

Thank you all fellas for your input.
The loads that I am working on, are slug loads with the Lyman Sabot Slug. I have only used the Remington hulls, and they work
well. I can get all I need at the gun club.
The WAA12 wad works well with the 30 grain charge of Herco that I am using. I have some WAA12 R wads that will work for
heavier loads of slower powder.
I am going to play with round ball loads in the future, so these wads should work well also. I may have to use some filler wads to
take up space, but that is ok.
Jack