I shoot mainly handguns and have never had much luck

[S.B.]

with gaschecked bullets? Seem the gascheck are much too big to seat properly on my cast bullets? So all my gascheck bullet molds don't get used much. I, once, read here about a method of enlarging the gas ring portion of these molds but, time has a way of affecting my memory. Can someone refresh my old brain cells for me, please?
Steve

[MT Chambers]

What molds are you using? I have prolly over 100 GC molds and some are a tight fit for the checks, some are a loose fit, for the tight fit ones I install with the kit I got from NOE which makes it easier to install GCs. Once they are installed, the sizer, either Lyman, RCBS, or Star crimps them in tight, regardless of how tight or loose they started out. I couldn't do half of what I do without gas checks and properly installed.

[S.B.]

Lees, LBTs. Not concerned about loose fitting checks, just the checks being too big. I think the process I'm looking for is called Beagling(removing minute amount of metal from the gasring portion of molds)?
Steve

[RobS]

Lees, LBTs. Not concerned about loose fitting checks, just the checks being too big. I think the process I'm looking for is called Beagling(removing minute amount of metal from the gasring portion of molds)?
Steve

Beagling a mold has nothing to do with taking any metal from it. Rather this procedure involves putting a strip or strips aluminum tape on the mold block/blocks to increase the diameter of the cast boolit and is completely reversible by taking the strips of aluminum tape off. If you taking or removing metal from the mold then perhaps you are thinking of lapping the mold.

[S.B.]

How much tape would you reccomend? One layer two layers?
Steve

[RobS]

It's a trial and error type of thing. Do note though, Beagling will likely increase the diameter of other parts of the boolit as well. I would try some strips near the top of the mold block on just one block half and go from there.

[Ben]

Lees, LBTs. Not concerned about loose fitting checks, just the checks being too big. I think the process I'm looking for is called Beagling(removing minute amount of metal from the gasring portion of molds)?
Steve

I think the process I'm looking for is called Beagling(removing minute amount of metal from the gasring portion of molds)?

Beagling does not remove metal, it is a process of applying thin layer(s) of metal tape to prevent the mold from totally closing. This process cast a larger bullet and if the bullet is a g/c design it can also add diameter to the gas check shank offering a tighter fit when a g/c is crimped on.

Ben

[geargnasher]

Lees, LBTs. Not concerned about loose fitting checks, just the checks being too big. I think the process I'm looking for is called Beagling(removing minute amount of metal from the gasring portion of molds)?
Steve

What I'm getting from this is that you aren't sizing your boolits to crimp the checks on the bases.

Gear

[S.B.]

Gear, that's exactly what I'm trying to do.
Steve

[geargnasher]

Describe the process you're using to prepare your boolits for loading, starting from the bare casting.

Gear

[S.B.]

Forget I asked.
Steve

[btroj]

Ok. We will forget.

I will say that unless we know exactly what you are doing and where the problem occurs then its quite difficult to help you. We can assume, we can guess, but none of that helps. What does help is knowing exactly what you are doing, step by step.

We can't spoon feed you unless you provide us with the spoon.

[S.B.]

I'm 64 and been loading my own since 19. My question was about putting gas checks on gas check bullets, not reloading techiques.
Steve

[Springfield]

If you just want to enlarge the gasring portion either chuck it up in your lathe and machine it larger or get some abrasive paper and a dowel and sand it out. Or use smaller gas checks. I am 56 and have been loading since I was 17 but I still learn things here, might want to be a bit more cordial accepting advice, we aren't very critical here.

[btroj]

What Gear wants to know is ow you are going about fitting them in now. From the time the bullet drops from the mould to the time it is ready for loading what is your current process?
Are they water dropped? What alloy? What sizing method, if any? What size from mould and what size after sizing?
Lots of things can affect how well a check fits. Knowing the process and materials being used helps make it easier to identify issues.

[S.B.]

What Gear wants to know is ow you are going about fitting them in now. From the time the bullet drops from the mould to the time it is ready for loading what is your current process?
Are they water dropped? What alloy? What sizing method, if any? What size from mould and what size after sizing?
Lots of things can affect how well a check fits. Knowing the process and materials being used helps make it easier to identify issues.

Don't fit them in but on. I use a Lyman 450, alloy is wheel weights, water drop my bullets. I've never miked the gas check part of any of my bullets always thought the driving bands determind the accuracy of bullets? I size all my bullets to correspond to the barrel of particular gun(best accuracy in my experience)? I seldom shoot to the upper levels of load therefore I really don't need gascheck bullet but, sometimes it nessisary if you want to try a certain style bullet.
Steve

[geargnasher]

Steve, if you're just going to be snarky and defensive to everyone who's trying to help you, we'll be glad to "forget it". I already have.

Gear

[btroj]

If you size the bullets to a too large size the checks may not crimp on. If the shank is too large the check may not fit properly and get crimped on at an angle.
Changing the alloy can change the diameters of the bullet.
The shank size doesn't determine fit with the bore but it does determine for with the check

Your original question said that the checks seem "too big". That tells me you are sizing to a diameter that isn't allowing the check to crimp properly onto the shank. I am assuming that is what you meant by don't fit properly.

The check must fit the shank within a certan set of parameters or it either goes on hard, and crooked, or it fails to crimp on and will fall off easily.

[waksupi]

Wise council is always good.

[S.B.]

When I size with the Lyman 450 it doesn't change the size of the gascheck shank on the base of the bullet. My sizing setup doesn't size the gascheck shank portion of the cast bullets. Are there setups that do? I've tried all sorts of advice like adding 1-2% tin to the mix, rasing or lowering temp etc. The bullets size correctly while the checks still are too large? That's why I've considered altering the molds? I'm not sure how I'd alter or how to measure this spot after? If I go too much would be the reverse in the end, or worse yet be totally out of round. I don't own a lathe and emory paper doesn't sound very exact to me, besides I'd like to be uniform after I'm done. Not even sure how much to go? I've worked as a machinist with lots experience with measuring tools even in microns but, this is something I'm totally confused about.
Steve

[RobS]

Just try beagling first and go from there. It's easy and reversible.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

When I size with the Lyman 450 it doesn't change the size of the gascheck shank on the base of the bullet. My sizing setup doesn't size the gascheck shank portion of the cast bullets....
Steve,
I install the gas check onto the boolit before sizing it with a Lyman 450 sizer, then the Lyman 450 will size and 'crimp' the gas check to the boolit gas check shank, as well as size the rest of the boolit, as well as lube the boolit.

I mention all this, because it sounds like you are doing something different.
Jon

[btroj]

Ok, it sounds like the checks aren't crimping on properly. That means the checks are too loose.

If you size a bullet to .432 instead of .429 it is .003 larger. That means the checks also has .003 less griping the check shank. The sizing doesn't alter the shak but it DOES alter the interior dimension of the crimping portion of the check. That is how sizing diameter affects check fit.

A larger check shank would help this too. The portion of the mould that forms the shank is too small. It call be altered by judicious lapping. A change of even .001 might be all it takes. You could also send the mould to a person who can open it up for you.

How long after casting do you size? Some alloys can actually grow a tiny amount with time. Try sizing a month or two after casting and see if that makes it better. Only bad thing is that the bullets will be harder to size at that point. This is easily "fixed" by sizing soon after casting then waiting a month or two then sizing again this time applying lube and and check.

This stuff can take some tinkering. It isn't difficult but it takes some playing around to find what works with some moulds. If it was always easy it wouldn't be any fun.

[runfiverun]

i'm surprised no one has suggested trying to anneal the checks.
sometimes the checks will spring back and annealing will help avoid this.
i'd measure the inside of the checks and the thickness of the copper and do the math as to what you really need them to do.
if the thickness plus the shank comes out .002-3 less than the boolits diameter you need a bigger shank.
you might have to anneal the checks and pop them open a little at that point.
but at least they'll stay on when sized.
you might need to lap the whole mold out.
if it's pouring small the shank is cut with the same cherry and will be worn down also and pour small too.

[btroj]

I suppose it would be good to also ask this, are ou putting the check on before running it thru the sizer? The sizing die is what crimps the check onto the bullet. If you don't size the bullet with the check on the it will never stay on.

[S.B.]

Steve,
I install the gas check onto the boolit before sizing it with a Lyman 450 sizer, then the Lyman 450 will size and 'crimp' the gas check to the boolit gas check shank, as well as size the rest of the boolit, as well as lube the boolit.

I mention all this, because it sounds like you are doing something different.
Jon

Yes Jon, exactly like I do also but, checks aren't tight on gc shank after this process? I don't know if I've mentioned this before but, I really believe the gas check shank portion of bullet is too small.
Steve

[S.B.]

Just how much difference, in diameter, should there be between the inside diameter of factory checks and the outside diameter of gas shank portion of cast bullets, before seating them? And, should they spin after running them through my Lyman 450 sizer? I always thought they should be firmly attached to the bullet? I mean with the ignition of the powder and the recoil and all, wouldn't they be prone to detaching from bullet in this senario? Sorry, if I'm not clear.
Steve

[Blammer]

S.B. tell me what caliber you are shooting and I can possibly give you some dimensions.

On occasion I seat GC's and they will spin on the bullet, but they WON'T come off! I've tried to pry the off and wind up ruining both the GC and the bullet.

Perhaps annealing the GC's may help. Toss them on an old cookie sheet, put in the oven at 400° till they are hot then let them cool, they should be pleanty soft and then work better.

With the ignition of the powder and primer and the pressure generated inside the case, if anything it will seat the GC onto the base of the projectile really well as it's being pushed out the barrel. :)

[S.B.]

I tried mainly .357 mag. and .44 mag. in pistols but, have tried gaschecks on 45/70 bullets also.
Steve

[Blammer]

These are the dimensions that Gator uses for his Gas Checks.

357 mag

maximum GC shank dia is .341
the largest dia that I've been able to size these to and still have the GC work properly is .360
what is your GC shank dia measuring?

44mag

maximum GC shank dia is .402
the largest dia that I've been able to size these to and still have the GC work properly is .434
what is your GC shank dia measuring?

45/70 aka 458

max gas check shank is .426
I've no experience in how large you can size these and still have them work.
what is your GC shank dia measuring?

with Gator Brand gas checks if the shank is larger the GC's will not fit properly, if its' much smaller they will spin a bit.

what brand GC are you having problems with?
I suspect you may need to anneal the GC's.

As far as giving you the difference, in diameter, between the inside diameter of factory checks and the outside diameter of gas shank portion of cast bullets, before seating, is going to vary. I'm sorry I don't have those specific numbers.

[btroj]

The check shank portion of the mould can be lapped, or lathe turned, to make it cast larger. That will solve the problem.

[S.B.]

The check shank portion of the mould can be lapped, or lathe turned, to make it cast larger. That will solve the problem.

Please see post #20 in this thread?
Steve

[btroj]

If you lap out the gas check shank and make it larger then the gas check will get a better purchase on it.

Think of it this way, you have a .010 difference between interior size of check and the shank. You size the shank down .005. Check is still .005 too large and falls off. What happens if we lap the shank out so it starts just . 004 smaller than the interior of the check. Now when the check is sized down .005 the check bites into the shank by .001 and can't fall off.

The problem is purely a matter off getting a better fit between check interior dimension and shank outer dimension. Since you can't make the checks smaller to start with you need to look at the outer dimension on the shank. Lapping it to cast larger will fix the problem.

[S.B.]

I know and agree with this but, how do I keep it concentric?
Steve

[MT Gianni]

Lets say that you use 400 grit paper and a split rod to lap things out. You mess up, even though you have measured often and now have a xhank that is 3% out of round. The check will still contact the bore evenly but the bullet may be imbalanced. I do not believe the balance will effect things. I would buy a Lee mold with the express purpose of lapping the shank. At most you are out $25 with the ability to practice on one mold.
I have a hard time visualizing that no checks in various molds in three calibers are staying on. Are the checks all the same brand and lot number for caliber? I am out of town for a week but if you PM me your address when I return I will mail you some bullets in all three calibers that the checks stay on. If there is a problem with your checks it can be determined before you alter any molds.

[S.B.]

My main concern is a Lee mold. I think I'd be hetter off sending it to Lee and let them worry about it? May call them tomorrow.
Steve

[MikeS]

Steve, are the boolits in question 45's? If so, it sounds like you're using gas checks that are designed for rifle boolits on boolits that are designed for pistol sized gas checks. The only boolits I know of that are pistol boolits that use rifle checks are those that were made for Ranch Dog, his designs specified rifle checks even tho they were pistol boolits.

[btroj]

Use the search function. See how many posts have been about lapping moulds and how successful it has been. If it wasn't likely to be successful I wouldn't have suggested it.
Lap it. Call Lee. Do whatever makes you happy. Key is that you now know what needs to be done.

[Dan Cash]

If you have the skill and means to enlarge the gas check shank, do so by a half a thousandth or so and your checks will fit. An alternative would be to get some smaller gas checks (Gas Check Store) or totally remove the gas check shank. In my experience, it is totally un needed for handgun calibers. There is no off the shelf sizing system that I know of which will size only the gas check shank.

[Blammer]

perhaps it's the GC's themselves? How old is your stock of GC's?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

+1 on annealing. I had some GCs that were so loose they would not even begin to crimp on the boolits. After annealing they worked perfectly!

[happy7]

Steve,

It is not uncommon at all for the mold to have the wrong size gas check shank. I did not find your question confusing. The simple fact is that if your gas check is fittiing loose, the shank of the bullet is too small, or you have the wrong gas checks. The gas check should fit snug when you put it on, and when the bullet has been sized, it should be stuck solidly to the bullet with no play. I have a LOT of molds, and some have had this problem. It can be very frustrating. Following are some options I have experimented with.

Best one is send it back as you suggested, if you still have a warrenty on it. Unfortunately, you may end up with one with the same problem again.
Otherwise you can lap it as has been suggested. Your concern about this not working perfectly is a valid one. I have had mixed success with this. I have ruined a mold or two and I have had success with a few. A big problem is that you really don't know what is happening with the mold untill you have cast with it again, so it means you have to lap, get mold hot and cast, let mold cool then lap, then do it over and over again, untill it is the way you want it, but you have to go slow, or you risk goign too far or getting too out of round. It just depends on how lucky and how patient you are.
Another option is to send it to a machinist who will open the shanks up for you. Hollowpointmold is one that I have used. I have a mold that I will be sending off to him in the next couple days for this very issue.
You could beagle just the top half of the mold as has been suggested.
If you have the patience, you can superglue the gas checks on.

I have tried all the above solutions, and they all can work, but the one I resort to most often these days is the hollowpointmold one. As long as he does his job right, and he is pretty good, your frustrations will be over.

[S.B.]

Can or would you email or PM me a contact for this machinist, please?
Steve

[happy7]

www.hollowpointmold.com (http://www.hollowpointmold.com)

$5 a cavity and $25 setup, plus return shipping.

[S.B.]

Thanx happy I'll get in touch.
Steve

[fcvan]

I had a similar problem with on of my 30 cal molds. The gas checks crimped and held nicely on the Lee 309-150 RF but fell off the Lee 309-120 R. I played with the alloy and casting temp to try and sort things out but had no luck. I figured I should lap the shank portion of the 120 mold to make it fatter. Here comes the 'boy, that was dumb' moment.

I borrowed a micrometer to see what the problem is and found the following: the 150 shank is oversized, the 120 shank is the correct size, the flashing I bought to make my checks from was the wrong stuff. My flashing is .010 not .014 and so the checks are not thick enough for 30 cal. Fortunately, the .010 works great for 35PB and 45pb checks. I can also duplex the .010 with some soda can aluminum to make thicker checks. I will just buy another 50' roll of flashing as it isn't very expensive. I feel silly for grabbing the wrong roll of flashing but not so embarrassed as to not share my silly mistake with others. Live and learn, right? Frank