Preserving equipment

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I don't know if this is the right area or not. I couldn't figure out what sub forum to put it in.

I was wondering how to preserve all of my equipment and guns for long term storage in less than desirable conditions if I ever decided to put them out of the way for awhile. Does just surrounding the equipment with grease and maybe a plastic wrap work? Just wondering.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I guess I should explain a little better. I have an 1897 Winchester 16 ga. pump that was built in 1905. I haven't used it for quite a few years and it resides in a closet. I used to hunt with it but I haven't used it for a good 15 years. How would a guy preserve this shotgun? I don't want to forget about it and see it get rusted. I thought about selling it but it's hard to determine its value and then again, once it's gone, it's gone for good.

[I'll Make Mine]

I have a Mosin Nagant that, as best I can determine, was put up in cosmoline around 1970; I bought it in 2012, cleaned off the grease, and it's as good as when it came out of the aresenal the last time. Grease and an airtight package is a method with a lot of testing behind it, but you can look forward to complete disassembly and a couple hours of cleaning time to get the stuff out when you're ready to shoot (or sell) the gun.

An alternate that should work as well and be a lot less work to undo when you're ready to shoot the gun again (but isn't as well tested) is to coat all the metal with light oil, just as you'd do after a thorough cleaning, and store the gun in an airtight container with a number of dessicant packets (dry them in the oven at 400º F for an hour or two to ensure they're genuinely dry just before closing up the package). For this purpose, plastic wrap or bags probably aren't a good solution -- a pinhole can let in enough air to overwhelm the dessicant and let the oil evaporate. A piece of plastic pipe big enough to accept the entire gun would cost around $10, plus another $10 for a pair of glue-on caps (you could save a few dollars if you disassemble the piece and get a smaller pipe the metal parts will fit in -- in which case, attach the wood to the pipe!!). The glue-on caps are an interference fit; they'll be airtight if simply pushed on and tapped a couple times with a fist. This plastic pipe package has been used various places to bury guns, apparently with good preservation; no reason it shouldn't protect your shotgun in the closet (but if you put the whole gun inside, do engrave the contents on the pipe to prevent it getting discarded as trash if your stuff has to be gone through in your absence).

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I never thought about the plastic pipe. I may try that. I would like to be able to save some of the equip. I have for future generations. My two daughters don't reload or use guns. I would like to have a way to store my things so they could be used eventually or seen on Antiques Road Show. Great, great grandpa Charlie's reloading and gun chest. Money has a way of losing value but some of the old stuff just gets more valuable or interesting as time goes by.

[beagle]

The Army used to use the white outside/silver inside barrier paper to seal things. I'd save it for reuse at home when unpacking parts. Of particular use were the sleeves that rocket tubes came in as they also fit rifles and shotguns nicely. I'd clean and oil, store in the tube and then seal with an iron. It worked well and no rust. This stuff is maybe still available as barrier paper. Research milspec packaging on the net and see what pops up./beagle

[tonyjones]

I use RIG grease.

Tony

[dragonrider]

I have a few guns that I will never shoot again but I will not sell them either so I have been considering some long term storage. I will coat the guns will a rust preventive like Birchwood Caseys Sheath or similar, wrap in plastic, place in a pvc pipe and glue on the end caps. On one end cap I will install a small valve and I will use a vacuum pump to draw out as much air as possible then I will seal that valve with silicone. That should work for a very long time.

[I'll Make Mine]

I have a few guns that I will never shoot again but I will not sell them either so I have been considering some long term storage. I will coat the guns will a rust preventive like Birchwood Caseys Sheath or similar, wrap in plastic, place in a pvc pipe and glue on the end caps. On one end cap I will install a small valve and I will use a vacuum pump to draw out as much air as possible then I will seal that valve with silicone. That should work for a very long time.

Probably better, after drawing the vacuum, to pressurize to 40 psi or so with nitrogen (a tire store might be able to do that, if the valve you install is the common Schrader type). Alternately, you could install two valves, and purge with nitrogen -- it'll save the effort of pumping down and do a better job of eliminating oxygen and moisture from inside than any level of vacuum you can reach without a specialty pump. If there's a microleak (and there probably is), vacuum will draw in moist air, while dry nitrogen inside will just push out down to atmospheric pressure -- and if it takes a few weeks or months to lose 40 psi, it'll take decades for the nitrogen to exchange for air through the same opening after that.

[mdi]

Alox was originally a metal preservitive...

[legend 550]

Probably better, after drawing the vacuum, to pressurize to 40 psi or so with nitrogen (a tire store might be able to do that, if the valve you install is the common Schrader type). Alternately, you could install two valves, and purge with nitrogen -- it'll save the effort of pumping down and do a better job of eliminating oxygen and moisture from inside than any level of vacuum you can reach without a specialty pump. If there's a microleak (and there probably is), vacuum will draw in moist air, while dry nitrogen inside will just push out down to atmospheric pressure -- and if it takes a few weeks or months to lose 40 psi, it'll take decades for the nitrogen to exchange for air through the same opening after that.

Nitrogen is an excellent idea. Rust is actually the chemical reaction between iron and oxygen. The attaching of an oxygen atom to a iron atom creates iron oxide (rust) and not moisture. The oxygen in water is whats corrosive. Seal out oxygen and rust cannot form. just my .02

[762 shooter]

RIG changed my life.

I live near the east coast and a dry day is around 86% humidity. We get nosebleeds at 70%.:violin:

Guns had to be checked weekly and oiled religiously. Used RIG and no rust after one week, no rust after one year. I still check but Rig has solved that problem for me. I would use RIG as a part of any long term storage issue.

762

[MtGun44]

I have used an old product from CRC that still sits on my shelf -"Marine Soft Seal" sort of
a spray bomb of cosmoline light. For example I put away a crankshaft on a shelf in the
basement 25 yrs ago (sad to say) and sprayed it with this. Last time I looked (I check
it periodically, it is out and in sight, it was fine, just a light amber coating that cleans off
FAR easier than real cosmoline with a bit of rubbing with a solvent dampened rag.

This appears to be the equivalent product today.

http://crcindustries.com/auto/?s=06026

I'd mask the stock with newsprint while spraying a couple of thin coats.

Bill

[dverna]

I like the idea of putting the metal parts in a PVC pipe. I would go with screw on end caps and put teflon tape or grease on the threads to keep them air tight.

[cloakndagger]

Cosmoline, liberaly applied (think candle dip) and then wrapping with wax paper and topped with linen was how the brits did theirs, the russkies just slathered on the cosmo, cowered with wax paper and crated up theirs. Personaly I like this method. Alox, as stated above, is used to rustproof metal (like car underbodies) and works as good as cosmo, but its a sheer and utter pain to get off compared to cosmo.

[I'll Make Mine]

The oxygen in water is whats corrosive. Seal out oxygen and rust cannot form. just my .02

Water does promote corrosion, even though it doesn't participate in rusting. Get liquid water on a steel surface, it'll form a concentration cell, with an electric potential (voltage, though it's millivolts) between an area where oxidation already exists (any traditional blued surface, for instance) and where it doesn't (the water droplet surface away from the metal) and actually generate an electric current that promotes oxidation of the metal by oxygen from air dissolved in the water.

Fortunately, nitrogen is automatically dried before it's stored in a pressure bottle; it's purified by distillation from liquid air, and all the water freezes out in the process of liquefaction. Purge your storage tube with nitrogen, you'll automatically dry as well as removing oxygen that can react with the steel.

Oh, another benefit -- long term vacuum exposure can swell wood (air trapped inside the wood pushing out into the vacuum), as well as the wood releasing air to break down the vacuum; nitrogen at or above atmospheric pressure will keep the air inside the wood exactly where it started, so even that oxygen doesn't get a chance to react with the iron.

[Shiloh]

Cosmoline and Alox are a good choice also.

Shiloh

[MikeS]

Lee's Liquid Alox is actually a rust preventative product that Lee drafted into boolit lube duty. My family business used to use it by the gallon (not from Lee, but from several different suppliers, but it's the same stuff) and never had a problem with rust even tho our shop was less than 2 miles from the ocean. While it's not the easiest thing to remove, it's a lot easier to remove than rust is! I suppose Alox 350 could also be used by heating it up, and dipping small parts and/or whole pistols into it, there wouldn't be any rust, but it would be even harder to remove than the LLA would.

[Ramar]

I live on an island in the Atlantic and wood rusts here! I've been using Rig for years, both short term and long term storage. My long term storage difference is that I remove the wood so I can coat everything and then reinstall with a layer of wrapping of kitchen Saran wrap followed by wrap of heavy freezer paper for ding protection. Most fine tools are stored submerged in an oil bath and wiped cleaned when needed and back into the oil when down.
Ramar

[marlin39a]

Breakfree makes a product called "Collector". I used it when I lived in a damp, basement apartment in Massachusetts back in the 90's. Kept my guns rust free.

[Jack Stanley]

RIG has always worked well for me as well .

Jack

[Wayne Smith]

All of the tests I have seen of various rust preventative products Rig comes out on top.

[dragonrider]

Yes the nitrogen would be a very good addition.

[Beekeeper]

Many years ago when I was young and smarter than the average bear I had to make a decision .
"Guns or Family".I chose family and put all of my guns and reloading gear away.
Remember this was before "Nanny Gate" so all of the weapons were liberally coated with "horror of horrors" WD40, wrapped in old sheet material and put in a closet.
They were taken out and transfered from one house to annother as "Uncle Sugar" transfered me around the world.

Some forty years later I took them out and unwrapped them and once again started reloading and shooting.
There was no rust and after a good cleaning worked as advertised.

Must have been a small miricle as everyone says WD40 is junk and should never be allowed around guns.

Funny thing I found out about WD40 is it is 30% fish oil, and is an ingrediant in a number of BP and smokeless lubes.
But hey "I'm no expert"


beekeeper

[870TC]

According to the WD-40 website....Wd-40 contains no fish oil. If you look up the MSDS its says it is largely comprised of Stoddard solvent and plain old Mineral oil. Just like Hoppe's oil, its made entirely of Pharmaceutical grade Mineral oil.

WD-40's main ingredients, according to U.S. Material Safety Data Sheet information, are:

50%: Stoddard solvent (i.e., mineral spirits -- primarily hexane, somewhat similar to kerosene)
25%: Liquified petroleum gas (presumably as a propellant; carbon dioxide is now used instead to reduce WD-40's considerable flammability)
15+%: Mineral oil (light lubricating oil)
10-%: Inert ingredients

[gofastman]

Eez-ox (http://www.eezox.com/gun-care.html) sure works well from what I have seen/experienced

http://www.home-machine-shop.com/Rust-Off.htm

[uscra112]

Over half of my collection is still in storage due to long delays in getting my retirement digs into shape. I long ago rediscovered what has actually been known for centuries, that linseed oil is a superb rust preventive. Many of my little-used antiques have always gotten a coat of linseed on the metal every year when I wipe and polish the wood. In bores I use RIG, and when I put the guns into storage I gave the action interiors a shot of a CRC aerosol that feels like WD-40 with some sort of oil added. Then I wrapped them in industrial cling film for extra extra protection. So far I've unearthed only one, and after three years in unheated storage it came through perfectly. Getting the cling film off was the hardest part - Ed's Red will take the linseed oil off metal in no time.

I dearly wish I'd done this to more of them. One of my High Walls which wasn't put into storage has suffered a severe freckling. I neglected to take off the cotton transport sleeve when I put it into the safe in the new quarters. That'll learn me - it's been settled wisdom for decades to avoid leaving a gun in any kind of fabric, sheepskin, or leather case. Beekeeper - you surely dodged a bullet there!

[mannyCA]

I've heard of many people using regular motor oil, cheap and lasts forever.

[Beekeeper]

just like the tag like says I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Last Night.

All I can say is W......A.....Y back when I did it they didn't have MDS sheets and the consensus was it had fish oil in it. Sure smelled fishy any way.
All I can say is it worked for me, but then I am not an expert just an old guy that makes do with whatever is at hand.


beekeeper

[smokeywolf]

Never had to protect my C&Rs from high humidity. But, if I that were the case, based on the comments here, I think I'd use the RIG. What I do use is G96 or Ballistol and socks. I do a physical examination every 3 months or so and always wear film handler's gloves whenever I'm putting my babies away.

smokeywolf

[CATTLEMAN]

I know of some guns that were stored in a warehouse for 22 years without damage by doing the following: On a dry day each one was lightly oiled on the metal, wrapped in fresh VCI paper, placed in a "long term storage bag" from a famous gunsmithing supply house, the bag was compressed to remove the air with a stack of beach towels, the bag was then heat sealed with a clothes iron and then the bag was wrapped in bubble wrap.

I'm not making any guarantees, but I saw them stored and then reopened 22 years later and everything was fine.

Stored in this way in theory if the gun was needed the bag could be opened, the bore swabbed out and the gun placed in service.

My understanding is that VCI paper may be incompatible with some older wood finishes, but the guns I saw were fine and some were antiques.