My load development is done and I couldn't have done it without lots of help here.

[Whiterabbit]

Hi Guys,

I have "the load" for plinker rounds out here. Many of you guys have been helping me repeatedly trying to figure out just what the heck is wrong with what I'm doing out here. Now it's solved.

I shot the best group I've ever shot the other day, 2.86" at 100 yards with my BFR. My goal is 2", but I know its not the load. I've learned new things:

1. grip consistency. You guys are NOT KIDDING. change one thing. Any one thing. That bullet hole is moving. And you can FEEL IT HAPPEN! That's amazing.
2. I'm weak. I fatigued out after two rounds. In a 5 round group the group kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Hand was SO tired after that group, and not from physical exertion, it was from mental fatigue trying to control grip strength, rest position, breathing, focus, etc. two rounds and I was done! I need practice.
3. When the smallest failure happened, I could tell immediately under recoil. Never could do that before. I could feel the grip drifting the gun to the right. Presto, hole 2" right. Not holding with the same downforce on the rest. Presto, hole is lower.

And yet the first two perfect shots were nearly touching!

Yep, this load is done. failures from now on are cause I'm a bad shooter. But getting better!

Anyways, thanks to every single member who's responded to a thread, chatted with me over PM, sent me bullet samples, the list goes on. Turned a gun that felt like it would be a pain to get in good working order to one that will ALWAYS shoot better than I do. That's amazing!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=56112&d=1355725904

New year's resolution. Shoot <2" at 100 yards with no magnified optics. :) Maybe resolve to shoot <1" WITH a scope.

Not too bad for a 425 grain bullet moving an average of 1360 fps.

(the biggest tip? stop shooting jacketed bullets. :p)

[x101airborne]

Hey, that's great! Glad it all worked out. Even though I really dont know anything about BFR's, I was here for moral and emotional support!

And a couple wise acre comments.

[**oneshot**]

If the grip fits your hand well, then the grip will be more natural and repeatable. I've sold guns that just don't fit me.

[BCRider]

The nice thing about a revolver is that you can make new grips that fit your hand both to make it easier to get the same grip geometry each time as well as to round the scales out to give you more surface area spread out the recoil energy.

If you're fairly new to wood working nothing says that you have to start out with the most exotic and expensive wood going. Simple general house reno wood is fine for learning your chops with the shaping and developing the techniques for doing the work. And at most it costs you about a buck's worth of wood per try.

When I first got my Ruger Super Blackhawk I had a BAD case of "Dragoon Guard Bite" on the back of my "signalling" finger :D The stock scales were simply much too thin for my large to Xlarge glove size hands. The general information suggested that there was simply no option but to get the VERY ugly filler grips that fill in behind the trigger guard. Instead I made the grips shown below that are twice or maybe a touch more than twice the stock thickness around the neck of the grip area. These did the trick by both allowing me to obtain a more consistent grip each time I pick up the gun as well as providing more contact area so the gun doesn't push back as far into the web between my thumb and fore finger. At this point I can shoot full house .44Mag rounds without any issues for pain or wear and tear to my hand. And in fact it's gone from borderline numbness in my hand after a cylinder's worth to being simply fun and I keep on going.

So yeah, grips to suit the shooter can make a BIG difference.

[Whiterabbit]

pic of the grip?

[BCRider]

Oh well.... I wasn't going to toot my own horn by showing them off. But if you insist.... :D

From the side they look pretty normal unless you're quite familiar with them. The rear view shows the real story. The total width is a good 1/4 inch more than what the stock grips provided me through the upper neck area. As I said above this gives me a lot more area to spread out the worst of the recoil into my hand. By avoiding the distortion to my hand I totally lost the tendency for the gun to come back and hit the back of my middle finger poised just behind the trigger guard.

Hand distortion you say? Find some high power handgun shooting that is shown in slow motion and watch the way the shooter's hands distort and flex. It's quite a shock to see how much our hands can flex like this without breaking all those little bones.

At the same time I also slightly thinned the butt end so my lower finger(s) get a nicer wrap around and relieved the edge to make the grips more rounded so my pinky parking down under the butt of the frame doesn't feel like it is riding on a sharp edge. It didn't need to be a LOT more rounded either. I just kept sanding off a little at a time until it felt great.

The look is obviously still very traditional which is what I was going for. But the feel of these new fatter grips is like night and day to the stock ones.

The grips aren't very shiney in this shot as they only have the first coat of tung oil on them. Since then they got two more coats and have a nice low lustre sheen. The wood in this case is zebra. But my Ruger Single Six is still wearing a set of cheap lumberyard store hemlock scales that I originally did as a trial and quick practice sort of deal where I wasn't quite sure of what the grips should be shaped like. I don't have a picture but those are a lot more fat around the neck as well. In that case recoil energy is hardly an issue. But how the gun fit in my hand and the ability to replicate that grip consistently very much was an issue. Again for me the fatter neck area made it easier to pick up and achieve a positive and consistent grip on the gun.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/BCRider/Gun%20pictures/grips4.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/BCRider/Gun%20pictures/grips5.jpg

[Ia.redneck]

Mind if I ask what your load turned out to be?

[Whiterabbit]

not at all. I am quite confident it is low pressure. Very low pressure. It's 30 grains of IMR4198 with a 425 grain ranch dog bullet sized to fit the cylinder throats. IF (and this is a huge if) we assume that, since 460S&W is 75% the case capacity of 45/70, that 75% of the powder charge by weight results in the same pressure, then the equivalent load in a 45/70 is a start load for lever action rifles. 31k-35k CUP.

I know for a fact I have many many grains of capacity to go further on the round, both in the case and for pressure. It's just not needed. Another nice bonus is that to get 100% case fill, the bullet gets seated .8 inches down the case. That is ALOT of case tension, and I have no need to crimp at all. The bullets stay in place just fine.


Anyways, it recoils way less than my CA-condor friendly load, a 290 grain solid copper moving at 2000 fps using more than 40 grains of H110. Less noise, less recoil. I can shoot it all day long at steels offhand (or in general not trying to group).

[44man]

It makes me feel good that you are starting to call shots. Yes, you can "FEEL" a difference between shots and it is so important. You can actually close your eyes and tell where a shot went based on feel.
I take it that you are shooting the 45-70 so remember I had pressure excursions with 4198 and cast that I did not have with jacketed. That is why I went to 4759. I had a few shots jump to 1800 fps and stick brass with 4198.

[Whiterabbit]

460 S&W. No one does load development for 460 for heavy bullets except with H110 (and only 500 grains apparently) so there is a dearth of information for cast bullet shooters. the light bullets designed for the X-frame gain twist doesn't work for the BFR. That was a major motivating factor coming here and asking for more expert advice. One milestone on my path was to stop treating the 460 like a big pistol and more like a baby 45/70. That was huge.

I've tried 4759 and it seemed to work well too (was shooting equivalent to my ability at the time with 4198, anyways). But I haven't shared your experience yet with stuck cases. Now, I DO shoot all gas-checked ammo right now, and have only seriously tried plain base bullets at over 500 grains. I may revisit that project sometime if I ever get tired of buying gas checks. Maybe then 4198 will fail me as a powder. But with the gas check, maybe it acts more like a jacketed bullet.

[subsonic]

I am glad to see this! Now just keep all the screws tight and keep on shooting and you'll be good to go!

A lot of folks with rifles can't do that...:mrgreen:

What alloy are you using? I know you had mentioned that getting good alloy is a big challenge in CA. The gas check certainly helps when the alloy is less than perfect.

[Whiterabbit]

I water drop everything. those rounds were straight wheel weights. I also want to revisit a softer alloy with tin added, which I shot earlier but in the wrong bullet with the wrong powder. Lead alloy is still something of a mystery to me that I am still learning. It's easy to see the direct relationship of alloy/lube to leading, but not so easy to see changes to performance downrange. Definitely on the list to explore. you know. After I make a metric ton of wdww rounds to develop real shooting technique.

Gas checks are certainly key for me right now.