.303 with cast boolits

[Ray1946]

I am planning on loading and shooting some lead this year in my No.4MkII. I have 2 really nice molds and was wondering if anyone has tried using AA5744 with this cartridge? Seems I remember reading somewhere about this being great powder for cast boolits. I have experience with RL7 and 4759, but not with this cartridge. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all!...............................

[nhrifle]

Ray, I use a Lyman 314299 in mine. If you havn't already done so, it would be a good idea to slug the bore as many of the Enfields had oversize bores. I don't recall having tried AA5744 in mine and there's nothing in my notes, so I'm sorry but I don't have any information for you on that. I have used Varget (awesome), 4895, 4350 and 3031 for full power loads. For my reduced target charges, I have come to rely on Red Dot.

As far as the AA5744, you might want to give this a look. Another member had a really bad day with that powder.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?175582-S-e-e-Big-kaboom

Hope this helps. If you need any specifics on how I load mine, PM me. Good luck and good shooting.

[Jon K]

5744...20 gr behind the 314299 is nice light load, 23 gr for more stubborn rams @200m.

Jon

[303Guy]

It appears that 4350 produces the highest velocity with the lowest pressure and fills the case more. I've used 30gr 4350 under 205gr boolits with filler.

[ukrifleman]

I use the Lee 185gn .303B bullet, gas checked to .311 in front of 25.5gn of 5744 in my FTR'd No4 Mk1/2. I get an average m/v of 1910 fps.
Lee's Modern Reloading page 501, gives a start load of 25.0 gn of 5744 and a never exceed load of 28.0 gn with a 180gn cast bullet.
ukrifleman.

[madsenshooter]

OMG 303guy! You're below the recommended amount of that stuff, ain't you afraid of the dreaded SEE? Pay no attention to me Ray, just poking at folks paranoid about SEE. 303guy's data is good, and tested. I too have found slow burning powder to work the best, if velocity with accuracy is what you're after. I shoot a Krag rifle quite a bit and it's cartridge is very similar to the .303. I've been getting some good results with RL19 and heavy bullets. I'd suggest checking out Richard Lee's Modern Reloading.

[303Guy]

Actually, I am afraid of the dreaded SEE. I fired the first few shots with great trepidation. But pressure signs (on the primer) were healthy and consistent. I've switched to W748 for to eliminate boolit base damage caused by the 4350 powder granules peaning the bases. Gas checks are needed.

4350 peaning.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/30grFILLER_35grNOFILLER_2209_208gr-1-1.jpg

[fred2892]

I use the lyman 314299 and 26 grains of 5744 in my long lee. Combined with Lars carnauba red lube its good out to 600 yards+.

[curator]

Ray1946,

All of those powder work fine in the .303 British with cast boolits. If you have not viewed Steve Regwell's website, you should. He has a good article on it about shooting cast in the .303. Here's a link to that article: http://www.303british.com/id37.html

[HARRYMPOPE]

I use the 314299 and 16g of 2400 in the 30-40Krag and 303.

George

[303Guy]

I use the lyman 314299 and 26 grains of 5744 in my long lee. Combined with Lars carnauba red lube its good out to 600 yards+.Holy cow! Could you post pictures of the boolit and loaded cartridge please? Might I ask what the bore-ride section diameter is?

[fred2892]

Don't get too excited there. I use this combo on man size knock down targets on a military battle range not on paper.

[303Guy]

Out to 600yds? Nothing wrong with that.

I found some load data that I chronographed;

Barrel length 14.5 inches
194gr paper patched
2018fps
44gr H4350\AR2209
case capacity - 44gr H4350

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/44gr2209194grPPCARDWAD002.jpg

Five shots hit A4 paper at 100m. (Barrel seriously rust damaged but I know it can do better).

[MaxJon]

What sort of cartridge OAL are we all getting with the Lyman 314299? The Lyman 4th ed. manual lists 3.075" OAL, but i can only get about 2.950" because the nose measures .303". The 3.075"fits in my mag no probs, but will not chamber unless the bullet nose is down around .298-.300" This makes the gas check sit below the neck portion in the case, and i really want it to sit in the neck so that the bullet nose sits in the rifling also. At this stage it looks like i will be collet chucking the bullets in my lathe and tuning the noses down to .300 until i find a suitable sizer for my RCBS LAM II to nose size without bent bullets, i hope! My rifle is a 1955 No.4 MK1/* FTR. from Fazerkley UK. I am yet to slug the barrel, but its a tight 5 groove LH twist, which will be fun to measure! Advice please!

[303Guy]

You could turn yourself a bore rider sizer die. You could taper it to better fit the throat.

Here is mine - It's a full length push-out dies with two diameters and a taper step down and a taper nose section to suite one of my rifle's throat.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/006.jpg

[fred2892]

Digging out my load book the 26 grains of 5744 produces 2065fps with an es of 28fps in a 10 shot string with my long lee. With an alloy of 21bhn the 314299 weighs in at 204 grains. OAL is 3.006 into the crimp groove. Bore ride section is .3035.

[MaxJon]

Thanks 303guy! Could you post a pic of this set up in your press??

[fred2892]

303Guy, have you tried anything to improve your bore. I also have an MEII with a poor bore (strong but dark rifleing, possible rust) that with the 5744 load scatters and tumbles the 314299. Best I have done with it yet is using a NOE 316299 and 20grains of 2400. Would really like to clean up the bore, any suggestions?

[303Guy]

Yes indeed. I fire-lapped it first with a serious fire-lapping bullet then more gently by rolling a paper patch onto the abrasive and also using a 'fire-lapping' loading with the abrasive behind the boolit. I then fire-polished by loading a dry casting and smeared polishing compound on the boolit before loading and firing.

That sizer set up fits into the shell holder for the sizing stroke then get flipped around for the ejection stroke. I've only just brought my press home from my old place but as soon as I've set it up I'll take some picks. Hopefully today. (I still have to figure out how to use my lady's camera - it's too complicated! Mine died:violin:).

Oh, I made the mold and the ejection punch using the same modified drill bit.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-256F.jpg

fred2892, those are good looking cartridges, thanks. Those dimensions sound perfect.

[PAT303]

I shoot huge numbers of 303 cartridges and load everything from Trail Boss to 50BMG powder under 90grn plinkers to 225grn bore riders,my Mk111 even likes the Lyman 324366 8mm boolit sized down to .315,it even looks like a Mk7.For 100mtrs 22-24grns of H4198 works very well,for longer shots 32-34grns of Varget,36-40grns of H4350,40-45grns of H4831 or just fill the case with BMG powder and stick a 314299 or any other 200grn plus boolit on top and away you go.I load my boolits too the lands and single load or load to the mag if I'm using it,for 100m snap and rapid fire I use an ideal 311413 boolit seated to the front band over H4198 and it feeds very well from my three LE's,for longer ranges you'll have better accuracy from heavy long bore riders,CBE did make some excellent molds and their 225grn BR shot well in every rifle I shot it in.Some advice,fire form your cases first,this is a must and then load the largest dia boolit that will chamber,don't bother with anything smaller than .314,it's a waste of powder. Pat

[MaxJon]

Thanks 303guy, Now i get it! haha

[Ray1946]

Thanks so much all you guys for the great info! I did read Steve Regwell's sight and wow what a great bit of info. Does everyone on here use some kind of filler? I must confess I haven't really shot any lead since the late 80's, so much of what I have found from you guys and other sources is new to me. I used to shoot 100yd. High-Power with a 96/11 Schmidt-Rubin, along with a few 200 and 300yd. slow fire matches.

In the early 90's I purchased a No.4MkII and later a No.1MkIII. The No.4 is a Fazakarly and the No.1 is a Lithgow. The lithgow has the FTR on the reciever and the barrel looks like new inside. The barrel on the No.4 was so-so and Springfield Sporters had some "new" BSA No.4 barrels, so I got 2 of them and put one on my rifle. I put a different head on the bolt and got the head-space down to .002 with the Norma brass I have. After I mounted the barrel and tightened it, I decided to put it aside for a few weeks and let the gasket compound set-up in the threads. That was 12 years ago. I finally got it out this year and fired 5rnds. of Prvi Partizone thru it. WOW, ......what a beautiful tight chamber. I also designed some molds for it and made a few of the bullets to see how they turned out. I designed one for 1,2, and 3 hundred and the larger one for 600 yds. Will post some photos when I figure out how....................

[HollowPoint]

Ignorance on my part.

Just out of curiosity, what is the rifling twist in your enfields? I've never pushed my
my bullets any faster than 1700 fps or so. I've always wanted to go faster; I mean
without paper patching.

My Enfield has been re-barreled with a true thirty (308) caliber bore. It's a dedicated
cast bullet gun now. I've just been hoping to push my bullets a little faster for some
longer range coyote hunting.

HollowPoint

[longbow]

My Lee Enfields are all 1:10" twist. Don't know for sure but I believe that is standard.

I found I was getting some skidding with 316299's cast from ACWW (front drive bands were swaging in the rifling some showing wide grooves) so I tried oven heat treating which helped a bunch.

I have also been shooting the NOE 0.314" x 129 gr. over 10 grs. of 700X but haven't chronographed it yet. It was somewhat more energetic than I would have expected. Again, oven heat treating seams to produce better accuracy.

I think with the fast twist a harder boolit is better. For hunting you would likely want a soft nose so could anneal the noses (Paco Kelly method) or cast soft nose boolits (Bruceb method).

You might do a search of JeffinNZ's posts as I am pretty sure he managed milspec equivalent velocities with a cast 170 GC boolit not heat treated. Lots of good info in his posts anyway!

Longbow

[I'll Make Mine]

Ignorance on my part.

Just out of curiosity, what is the rifling twist in your enfields? I've never pushed my
my bullets any faster than 1700 fps or so. I've always wanted to go faster; I mean
without paper patching.

My Enfield has been re-barreled with a true thirty (308) caliber bore. It's a dedicated
cast bullet gun now. I've just been hoping to push my bullets a little faster for some
longer range coyote hunting.

HollowPoint

Three ways to push your boolits faster: gas checks, special alloys (with correct fit), or paper patch.

[303Guy]

There's something to be said for boolit hardness and velocity. I have this test boolit fired at fairly low velocity into rubber grind catch medium which only slightly damaged the nose. Yet the unpatched nose which was below bore diameter has bumped up to fill the grooves in front of the patch!

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-137F.jpg

[mojavemike1]

I have just slugged my No.4 Mk1* with a soft .314 cast boolit...it measures .316 over the 2 lands (2 groove barrel) and .305 on the broad part. What cast size should I be using? It seems that the .305 dia is 80% of the bearing surface.

[303Guy]

From what I can work out, the two-groove has a simple taper throat starting at about .318, tapering down to bore diameter at a 1° angle. 80% bore area is about right. It kinda limits the boolit weight (or length). I made a mold with matching taper to fit the throat but the roughened lands cut through the patch. One day I'll try them in my mint two-groove. Those are 217gr smooth sides. Not everyone wants such heavies.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/Two-GroovePP30grAR220957grBran.jpg Paper patched two-groove.

[MaxJon]

Any tips on how to measure the slug from my 5 groove barrel?? I was gunna take the slug to my work and put it on the co-ordinate measuring machine, but if there is a simpler method i would like to hear it.

[littlejack]

Wrap a thin feeler guage tight around the boolit, measure the O.D. Subtract 2x the feeler thickness, and Wa-La you have it.
Jack

[JeffinNZ]

Any tips on how to measure the slug from my 5 groove barrel?? I was gunna take the slug to my work and put it on the co-ordinate measuring machine, but if there is a simpler method i would like to hear it.

Don't worry about the groove. Measure the throat. If you can chamber it......shoot it.

[303Guy]

I'm with Jeff.

[quasi]

I am with Jeff and 303 Guy, if your boolit will fit in the neck of a fired case, load em .

[RugerFan]

My 5 groove No 4 Mk 1/2 gets good accuracy with the 314299 pushed by IMR 4198 and VV133 @ 1750 FPS.

[Ray1946]

Most of my old militaries have liked 4198 and RL7 both and will sure try them as soon as it gets a little warmer. I'm also planning on trying 5744 and RL10. Has anyone worked up any loads with RL10? Looks like it would be slightly slower than 4198, but not as slow as 4895........................