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robertbank
02-19-2007, 02:03 PM
The following is a very good read with excellent information:

CAST BULLET LOADS FOR MILITARY RIFLES

Cast bullets can make shooting that surplus rifle easy and economical.
And basic data works for many different guns.

BY C.E. Harris

Cast bullet loads usually give a more useful zero at practical field ranges with military battle sights than do full power loads. Nothing is more frustrating than a military rifle that shoots a foot high at 100 yards with surplus ammo when the sight is as low as it will go! Do not use inert fillers (Dacron or kapok) to take up excess empty space in the case. This was once common practice, but it raises chamber pressure and under certain conditions contributes to chamber ringing. If a particular load will not work well without a filler, the powder is not suitable for those conditions of loading. Four load classifications from Mattern (1932) cover all uses for the cast bullet military rifle. I worked up equivalent charges to obtain the desired velocity ranges with modern powders, which provide a sound basis for loading cast bullets in any post-1898 military rifle from 7mm to 8mm:

1. 125 grain plain based "small game/gallery" 900-1000 f.p.s., 5 grains of Bullseye or equivalent.

2. 150 grain plain based "100-yard target/small game", 1050-1250 f.p.s., 7 grains of Bullseye or equivalent.

3. 170-180 grain gas checked "200 yard target", 1500-1600 f.p.s., 16 grains of Hercules #2400 or equivalent.

4. 180-200 grain gas-checked "deer/600 yard target", 1750-1850 f.p.s., 26 grains of RL-7 or equivalent.

None of these loads are maximum when used in full-sized rifle cases such as the 30-40 Krag, .303 British, 7.65 Argentine, 7.7 Jap, 7.62x54R Russian , or 30-06. They can be used as basic load data in most modern military rifles of 7mm or larger, with a standard weight cast bullet for the caliber, such as 140-170 grains in the 7x57, 150-180 grains in the .30 calibers, and 150-190 grains in the 8mm. For bores smaller than 7mm, consult published data.

The Small Game or Gallery" Load

The 110-115 grain bullets intended for the .30 carbine and .32-20 Winchester, such as the Lyman #3118, #311008, #311359, or #311316 are not as accurate as heavier ones like the #311291. There isn't a readily available .30 caliber cast small game bullet of the proper 125-130 grain weight. LBT makes a 130 grain flat-nosed gas-check bullet for the .32 H&R Magnum which is ideal for this purpose. I recommend it highly, particularly if you own a .32 revolver.

The "100 Yard Target and Small Game" Load

I use Mattern's plain-based "100 yard target load" to use up my minor visual defect culls for offhand and rapid-fire 100 yard practice. I substitute my usual gas-checked bullets, but without the gas-check. I started doing this in 1963 with the Lyman #311291. Today I use the Lee .312-155-2R, or the similar tumble-lubed design TL.312-160-2R. Most of my rifle shooting is done with these two basic designs.

Bullets I intend for plain based loads are blunted using a flat-nosed top punch in my lubricator, providing a 1/8" flat which makes them more effective on small game and clearly distinguishes them from my heavier gas-checked loads. This makes more sense to me than casting different bullets.

Bullet preparation is easy. I visually inspect each run of bullets and throw those with gross defects into the scrap box for remelting. Bullets with minor visual defects are tumble-lubed in Lee Liquid Alox without sizing, and are used for plain base plinkers. Bullets which are visually perfect are weighed and sorted into groups of +/- 0.5 grain for use in 200 yard matches. Gas checks are pressed onto bullet bases by hand prior to running into the lubricator-sizer. For gas-check bullets loaded without the gas- checks, for cases like the .303 British, 7.62 NATO, 7.62x54R Russian and 30-06, I use 6-7 grains of almost any fast burning powder. These include, but are not limited to Bullseye, WW231, SR-7625, Green Dot, Red Dot or 700-X. I have also had fine results with 8 to 9 grains of medium rate burning pistol or shotgun powders, such as Unique, PB, Herco, or SR-4756 in any case of .303 British or larger.

In the 7.62x39 case, use no more than 4 grains of the fast burning powders mentioned or 5 grains of the shotgun powders. Theses make accurate 50 yard small game loads which let you operate the action manually and save your precious cases. These plinkers are more accurate than you can hold.

Repeated loading of rimless cases with very mild loads results in the primer blast shoving the shoulder back, unless flash holes are enlarged with a No. 39 drill bit to 0.099" diameter. Cases which are so modified must never be used with full powered loads! Always identify cases which are so modified by filing a deep groove across the rim and labeling them clearly to prevent their inadvertent use. For this reason on I prefer to do my plain based practice shooting in rimmed cases like the 30-30, 30-40 Krag, 303 British and 7.62x54R which maintain positive headspace on the rim and are not subject to this limitation.

The Harris "Subsonic Target" Compromise

Mattern liked a velocity of around 1250 f.p.s. for his 100 yard target load because this was common with the lead bullet .32-40 target rifles of his era. I have found grouping is best with non gas- checked bullets in military rifles at lower velocities approaching match grade .22 long rifle ammunition. I use my "Subsonic Target" load at around 1050-1100 f.p.s. to replace both Mattern's "small game" and "100 yard target" loads, though I have lumped it with the latter since it really serves the same purpose. It's report is only a modest "pop" rather than a "crack".

If elongated bullet holes and enlarged groups indicate marginal bullet stability, increase the charge no more than a full grain from the minimum recommended, if needed to get consistent accuracy. If this doesn't work, try a bullet which is more blunt and short for its weight because it will be more easily stabilized. If this doesn't do the trick, you must change to a gas-checked bullet and a heavier load.


The Workhorse Load - Mattern's "200 yard Target"

My favorite load is the most accurate. Mattern's so-called "200 yard target load." I expect 10 shot groups at 200 yards, firing prone rapid with sling to average 4-5". I shoot high Sharpshooter, low Expert scores across the course with an issue 03A3 or M1917, shooting in a cloth coat, using may cast bullet loads. The power of this load approximates the 32-40, inadequate for deer by today's standards. Mattern's "200 yard target load" is easy to assemble. Because it is a mild load, soft scrap alloys usually give better accuracy than harder ones, such as linotype. Local military collector-shooters have standardized on 16 grains of #2400 as the "universal" prescription. It gives around 1500 f.p.s. with a 150-180 grain cast bullet in almost any military caliber. We use 16 grains of #2400 as our reference standard, just as high power competitors use 168 Sierra Match Kings and 4895.

The only common military rifle cartridge in which 16 grains of #2400 provides a maximum load, and which must not be exceeded, is in the tiny 7.63x39mm case. Most SKS rifles will function reliably with charges of #2400 as light as 14 grains with the Lee 312-155-2R at around 1500 f.p.s. I designed this bullet especially for the 7.62x39, but it works very well as a light bullet in any .30 or .303 caliber rifle.

Sixteen Grains of #2400 is the Universal Load

The same 16 grain charge of #2400 is universal for all calibers as a starting load. It is mild and accurate in any larger military case from a 30-40 Krag or .303 British up through a 30-06 or 7.9x57, with standard weight bullets of suitable diameter for the caliber. This is my recommendation for anybody trying cast bullets loads for the first time in a military rifle without prior load development. I say this because #2400 is not "position sensitive", requires no fiber fillers to ensure uniform ignition, and actually groups better when you stripper-clip load the rifle and bang them off, rather than tipping the muzzle up to position the powder charge.

Similar ballistics can be obtained with other powders in any case from 7.62x39 to 30-06 size. If you don't have Hercules #2400, you can freely substitute 17 grains of IMR or H4227, 18 grains of 4198, 21 grains of Reloder 7, 24 grains of IMR 3031, or 25.5 grains of 4895 for comparable results.

However, these other powders may give some vertical stringing in cases larger than the 7.62x39 unless the charge is positioned against the primer by tipping the muzzle up before firing. Hercules #2400 does not require this precaution. Don't ask me why. Hercules #2400 usually gives tight clusters only within a narrow range of charge weights within a grain or so, and the "universal" 16 grain load is almost always the best. Believe me, we have spent a lot of time trying to improve on this, and you can take our word for it.

The beauty of the "200 yard target load" at about 1500 f.p.s. is that it can be assembled from bullets cast from the cheapest, inexpensive scrap alloy, and fired all day without having to clean the bore. It always works. Leading is never a problem. Once a uniform bore condition is established, the rifle behaves like a .22 match rifle, perhaps needing a warming shot or two if it has cooled, but otherwise being remarkably consistent.

The only thing I do after a day's shooting with this load is to swab the bore with a couple of wet patches of GI bore cleaner or Hoppe's, and let it soak until the next match. I then follow with three dry patches prior to firing. It takes only about three foulers to get the 03A3 to settle into tight little clusters again.

"Deer and Long Range Target Load"

Mattern's "deer and 600 yard target load" can be assembled in cases of 30-40 Krag capacity or larger up to 30-06 using 18-21 grains of #2400 or 4227, 22-25 grains of 4198, 25-28 grains of RL-7 or 27-30 grains of 4895, which give from 1700-1800 f.p.s., depending on the case size. These charges must not be used in cases smaller than the 303 British without cross checking against published data! The minimum charge should always be used initially, and the charge adjusted within the specified range only as necessary to get best grouping.

Popular folklore suggests a barrel must be near perfect for good results with cast bullets, but this is mostly bunk, though you may have to be persistent.

I have a rusty-bored Finnish M28/30 which I have shot extensively, in making direct comparisons with the same batches of loads on the same day with a mint M28 and there was no difference. The secret in getting a worn bore to shoot acceptably is to remove all prior fouling and corrosion. Then you must continue to clean the bore "thoroughly and often" until it maintains a consistent bore condition over the long term. You must also keep cast bullet loads under 1800 f.p.s. for hunting and under 1600 f.p.s. for target work.

A cleaned and restored bore will usually give good accuracy with cast bullet loads if the bullet fits the chamber throat properly, is well lubricated and the velocities are kept below 1800 f.p.s.

The distinction between throat diameter and groove diameter in determining proper bullet size is important. If you are unable to determine throat diameter from a chamber cast, a rule of thumb is to size bullets .002" over groove diameter, such as .310" for a 30-06, .312" for a 7.63x54R and .314" for a .303 British.

"Oversized 30's", like the .303 British, 7.7 Jap, 7.65 Argentine, and 7.62x39 Russian frequently give poor accuracy with .30 caliber cast bullets designed for U.S. barrels having .300 bore and .308 groove dimensions. This is because the part of the bullet ahead of the driving bands receives no guidance from the lands in barrel s of larger bore diameter. The quick rule of thumb to checking proper fit of the forepart is to insert the bullet, nose first, into the muzzle. If it enters clear up to the front driving band without being noticeably engraved, accuracy will seldom be satisfactory.

The forepart is not too large if loaded rounds can be chambered with only slight resistance, the bullet does not telescope back into the case, or stick in the throat when extracted without firing. A properly fitting cast bullet should engrave the forepart positively with the lands, and be no more than .001" under chamber throat diameter on the driving bands. Cast bullets with a tapered forepart at least .002" over bore diameter give the best results.

Many pre-WWII Russian rifles of US make, and later Finnish reworks, particularly those with Swiss barrels by the firm SIG, have very snug chamber necks and cannot be used with bullets over .311" diameter unless case necks are reamed or outside turned to .011" wall thickness to provide safe clearance.

Bullets with a large forepart, like the Lee 312-155-2R or Lyman #314299 work best with the 7.62x54R because the forcing cones are large and gradual. Standard .30 caliber gas-checks are correct.

Finnish 7.62x54R, Russian 7.62x39 and 7.65 Argentine barrels are smaller than Russian 7.62x54R, Chinese 7.62x39, Jap 7.7 or .303 British barrels, and usually have standard .300" bore diameter. (Finnish barrels occasionally are as small as .298") and groove diameters of .310 -.3115".

In getting the best grouping with iron sighted military rifles, eyesight is the limiting factor. Anybody over age 40 who shoots iron sights should equip himself with a "Farr-Sight" from Gil Hebard or Brownell's. This adjustable aperture for your eyeglass frame was intended for indoor pistol shooters, but it helps my iron sight rifle shooting, and adds about 5 points to my score!

So now you have enough fundamentals to get started. If you want to have fun, give that old military rifle a try. You'll never know the fun you've been missing until you try it!

Ricochet
02-19-2007, 02:22 PM
The 110-115 grain bullets intended for the .30 carbine and .32-20 Winchester, such as the Lyman #3118, #311008, #311359, or #311316 are not as accurate as heavier ones like the #311291.

Wonder if Harris ever tried the Lee "Soup Can?"

DaveInFloweryBranchGA
02-19-2007, 03:41 PM
Bob,

Excellent information to know. Thank you for posting this.

Regards,

Dave

Shiloh
03-07-2007, 09:56 AM
This is very useful information!! Thanks for posting it!!

Shiloh

RoyRogers
04-14-2007, 09:22 PM
I just found this article. It addresses several of my most pressing questions. Thanks!

bart55
06-05-2007, 12:15 AM
;I just reread the article and find that the old dog sometimes needs to go back to class. What a great information well this site has been . it is my favorite spot on the web

jonk
06-05-2007, 08:44 AM
Old info, but always a good read.

Harris must have written that ages ago, or else is (like many folks of older habits) unaware of or biased against Lee. They make a 130 gr 30 cal mold, if I'm not mistaken.

Ricochet
06-05-2007, 03:02 PM
Yes, but that 130 grain round nose Lee mould only shows up (and does so quite frequently) on Lee's Surplus Items page. It's not a regularly catalogued mould. Another mould like that is their 457-325-F.

versifier
06-05-2007, 07:12 PM
Jonk,
Harris designed a number of Lee boolits and was an early proponent of LLA. I do not think he was ignorant of nor biased against Lee. It appears that, like many folks of younger habits, that you didn't actually read the article. You really should, and it wouldn't hurt for you to also read the NRA Cast Bullet Handbook and Supplement, both collections of Harris's (and others') articles on casting and loading for cast boolits. He forgot more about casting than most of us will ever learn. For the longer range shooting and hunting that were the focus of his research, the lighter boolits are pretty much useless, then and now. He was also one of the first gun rag authors to publish loading data for cast boolits, and his basic research is still a reliable starting point for rifle load development.

I'm a big fan of light .30 cal boolits, especially Lee Soupcans, but a long range boolit they will never be. And though I have used them to take deer, they are nowhere near the best choice, rather a great small game boolit. The 120grRN isn't bad for the M1 Carbine, but it will never be a hunting boolit, and it doesn't really make the cut as a reliable target round except at short distances, as it is easily affected by wind. Not positive, but I believe Harris was dead before Lee made the first 130gr moulds, and good luck finding one. He wouldn't have liked them much, either, for what he liked to do.

bruce drake
06-06-2007, 09:47 AM
I don't believe Ed Harris is dead. He replied to one of my posts at the Cast Bullet Association Forum in March.

Bruce

versifier
06-06-2007, 09:55 AM
That's great news Bruce. I'm glad it was just a rumor and will inform the guy that mentioned it. Do you know if he is still writing? It's been a long time since I've seen his name on an article in American Rifleman, maybe he has found another outlet.

bruce drake
06-06-2007, 11:00 AM
He replies almost everyday on the CBA forum. He's always willing to chat as well. I think he's primarily retired from writing for profit now.

Bruce

http://castbulletassoc.org/forum/

jonk
06-06-2007, 11:22 AM
Hmm, who would have thought that I got a rare bird? I got the .30 Lee mold in 130 gr at a gunshow, just sitting used on the table. I wasn't aware it wasn't a regular production piece.

I did read the whole article. I've read the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook cover to cover several times, minus reading the charts and tables at the end- the first time straight through, then in pieces as needed. I fully acknowledge that despite this and having cast a lot, I'm ignorant of a lot as well, particularly in terms of what bullet works with what twist/barrel length, etc., and with what powder- or what probably will.

Still, I hold by what I said, that it must have been written awhile ago. Like, ahem, a lot of folks of 'older habits' to use your words, he still calls it Hercules 2400- when surely, as anyone knows, it is and has been ALLIANT 2400 for years now. Same mentality has folks calling the CMP the DCM still, etc; you use the parlance you grew up with. I am NOT flaming the information- I said right up, always still a good read- just that I have seen this article and derivations of it, oh, I dunno, at least 50 times online.

nemo
12-16-2007, 04:41 PM
Sometimes I get confused with Ed Harris and E.H. Harrison of NRA fame ,EH wrote some long articles on hi velocity. rifle boolets That are up to date,only difference is the lubs

2manygunz
01-07-2008, 08:58 PM
I have found the Lee 312-155 2R mold to be surprisingly useful for a variety of ex-military hardware. It is the first mold that gave the type of accuracy results I had been trying to get for years. Until I tried that bullet, I was thinking you cast shooters were all getting too many fumes from the lead pot.

Riverrat
04-19-2008, 02:35 AM
I just want to add my thanks to Robert. I for one have never seen this info before and really appreciete it. It answers a lot of questions I have. But it adds one more. What is a Lee soup can??

Nueces
04-19-2008, 09:29 PM
Howdy, Riverrat. The soupcan design is the Lee C309-113-F, listed under the 30 caliber moulds at www.leeprecision.com. A word search here will turn up lots of references and provide some history. Welcome aboard.

Mark

Riverrat
04-20-2008, 06:29 PM
And thanks to you Mark for your warm Texas welcome! I am trying to be a sponge and soak up all of the great info on this site, and I print out most of it so I can read it off line. There is a whole world of info here and it will take me some time to read most of it. It seems to get better and better the more I read. I think I am going to send for one of those " Lee Soupcans " and try it out. 25 years ago or so I cast boolits for my .45 ACP and .38 Spcl. but no rifle. I intend to change that.

Nueces
04-20-2008, 08:44 PM
Boy, I agree with you on how much good poop there is here. Renewed regularly, too. I'm sure you'll enjoy getting back into casting.

Since you're ordering a Lee, do also a search on 'Leementing', a loose series of processes for tuning and improving the Lee moulds, especially the six-bangers (which, if you don't know, are much to be recommended over the two-cavs).

Mark

captain-03
05-11-2009, 01:16 AM
WOW!!! Great Read!!

Wicky
05-12-2009, 05:24 PM
Thanks for the informative post, all helps to expand my cast bullet knowledge, which is pretty small!! [smilie=1:

oscarflytyer
10-11-2009, 11:42 PM
Great info on 7MM and up. I shoot a lot of 6.5 Swedes. Any guidance on those? Thanx

Silvercreek Farmer
09-10-2012, 04:03 PM
Thought I would add a little more good Harris reading:

"The Load" is 13 Grains of Red Dot"

By C.E. Harris, Revised 2-16-94

My success in economizing by using up leftover shotshell powder has changed my
approach to handloading. I had a caddy of Red Dot, and no longer reloaded
shotshells, so asked myself, "what can I do with it?" My shooting is now
mostly high-power rifle. I needed several hundred rounds a week to practice
offhand, reloading, and working the bolt in sitting and prone rapid, but didn't
want to burn out my barrel or my wallet. Powder used to be cheap, but today is
$20/lb. (or more), so cost is a factor in component choice.

I used to ignore pistol or shotgun powders in reduced rifle loads for the usual
reasons: the risk of accidental double-charges, fears of erratic ignition, and
concerns with maintaining accuracy, and reduced utility with a low-power load.
Still, the caddy of Red Dot kept "looking at me" from the corner. Would it
work? Looking at data in the RCBS Cast Bullet Manual No. 1 and the Lyman Cast
Bullet Handbook suggested it would, so I tried it, much to my delight! Red Dot
is bulky, compared to the usual rifle powders used in .30-'06-size cases. It
occupies more powder space in typical charges than common "reduced load" rifle
powders, such as #2400, IMR4227, IMR4198 or RL-7. The lower bulk density of Red
Dot adequately addresses my safety concerns because it makes an accidental
double charge far less likely.

After considerable experimentation, my friends and I found "The Load" IS 13
grains of Hercules Red Dot, in any FULL SIZED rifle case of .30 cal. or larger.
"The Load" has distinct advantages over more expensive alternatives, within
certain limitations, which are:

1. The case must be LARGER than the .300 Savage or .35 Remington.

2. The rifle must be of MODERN (post 1898) design, suitable for smokeless
powder, with a bore size of .30 cal. or larger.

3. The bullet weight must be within the NORMAL range for the given cartridge.

4. Inert fillers such as Dacron, kapok or are NOT RECOMMENDED! (Nor are they
necessary).

Within these restrictions I have now engraved in stone, "The Load" works! The
bullet may be either jacketed or cast. Gaschecked cast bullets required in the
.30 cals., otherwise you will get leading, but plainbased ones work fine in the
8mm Mauser or larger.

"The Load" has shown complete success in the .30-40 Krag, .303 British, 7.65
Argentine, .308 Win., 7.62x54R Russian, .30-'06, 8x57 and .45-70
(strong-actioned rifles such as the 1886 Winchester or 1895 Marlin -- 12 grs.
is maximum for 400 gr. bullets in the Trapdoor Springfield -- Ed.) Though I
have not tried it, I have no doubt that "The Load" would work well in other
cartridges fitting these parameters, such as the .35 Whelen, .358 Winchester,
.375 H&H or .444 Marlin, based on RCBS and Lyman published data.

"The Load" fills 50% or more of a .308 Win or .30-'06 case. The risk of an
accidental double charge is greatly reduced, because the blunder is immediately
obvious if you visually check, powder fill on EVERY CASE, as you should
whenever handloading! A bulky powder measures more uniformly, because normal
variation in the measured volume represents a smaller percentage of the charge
weight.

Red Dot's granulation is somewhat less coarse than other flake powders of
similar burning rate, such as 700-X, which aids metering. Its porous, uncoated
flakes are easily ignited with standard primers. So-called "magnum" primers do
no harm in cases larger than the .30-'06, but are neither necessary nor
recommended in smaller ones. I DO NOT recommend pistol primers in reduced rifle
loads, because weak primers may cause erratic ignition, and their thinner cups
can perforate more easily, causing gas leakage and risk of personal injury!

The velocities obtained with 13 grs. of Red Dot appear mild, but "The Load" is
no pipsqueak! In a case like the .308 or .30-'06, you get (from a 24" sporter
barrel) about 1450 f.p.s. with a 200- gr. cast bullet, 1500 with a 170-gr., or
1600 with a 150-gr. cast load. "The Load" is fully comparable to "yesterday's
deer rifle", the .32-40, and provides good expansion of cheap, soft alloys
(10-13 BHN) at woods ranges. Jacketed bullet velocities with "The Load" are
about 120-150 f.p.s. less than a lubricated lead bullet of the same weight.

Longer-barreled military rifles pick up a few feet per second, but "The Load"
starts to slow down in barrels over 28", such as the M91 Moisin-Nagant and long
Krags or 98a Mausers.

My preferred alloy in the .30 cals. is a mixture of 3-5 lbs. of .22 backstop
scrap to 1 lb. of salvaged linotype. Wheelweights also work well, as do soft
"Scheutzen" alloys such as 1:25 tin/lead. in bores of 8 mm or larger. "The
Load" drives soft- cast .30-cal. to 8 mm bullets fast enough to get expansion,
but without fragmenting. These out-penetrate factory .30-30 softpoints, and
kill medium game up to 150 lbs. well at short ranges up to 100 yards, when
placed accurately. In medium and large bores like the .375 H&H or .45-70, "The
Load" gives typical black powder ballistics for the bore. A 255-265 gr. cast
bullet in the .375 H&H approximates the .38-55 at 1330 f.p.s. Soft 300- 405-gr.
cast bullets are pushed at 1300-1350 f.p.s. from a 22" barrel .45-70, sporter
are very effective on deer at woods ranges. Cast bullets over .35 cal. do not
have to expand appreciably to work well on game if blunt and heavy for their
caliber.

The Load" works well with jacketed bullets, giving somewhat lower velocities
than with cast lead, due to less effective obturation and greater friction in
the bore. The 85-gr. or 100-gr. Hornady or 90-gr. Sierra JHP for the .32 H&R
Mag. revolver, or the Remington 100-gr. .32-20 softpoint bullet become mild,
but destructive varmint loads at 1600 f.p.s. from a .308 or '06.

If you substitute a stiffly jacketed 110-gr. .30 Carbine softpoint bullet,
designed for higher velocities than imparted by "The Load", you have a
non-destructive "coup de gras", small game or wild turkey load which shoots
close to your deer rifle's normal zero, but at 25 yards! A more accurate and
effective small game or varmint load uses a flat-nosed 150-gr. pr 170-gr.
.30-30 bullet instead. These don't expand at the 1400-1450 f.p.s. obtained
with "The Load", but their larger frontal area improves killing power compared
to roundnoses or spitzers.

I have use pulled GI .30 caliber Ball, and Match bullets with "The Load" for
cheap 200-yd. NMC boltgun practice. Accuracy is equal to arsenal loads, but I
use my 600-yard sight dope at 200 yards. I expect 5-6" ten-shot, iron-sight
groups at 200 yards using M2 or M80 pulled bullets and about 3-4" for the M72
or M118 Match bullets. I use these mostly in bolt-action rifles, but they can
be single-loaded for offhand or slow-fire practice ion the Garand as well.
These .30 cal. pulls shoot fine in the .303 British or 7.62x54 Russian, despite
their being a bit small, because the fast-burning Red Dot upsets them into the
deeper grooves. The 173-gr. Match .30 cal. boattail bullets may not shoot as
well at these low velocities as lighter flat bases in the 12" twist .308 Win.
barrels, but they do quite well in ten- inch twist barrels such as in the '06,
7.62 Russian, .303 British and 7.65 Argentine.

The longer bore time of these 1400 f.p.s. (typical 170-180-gr. jacketed load
velocity) practice loads makes errors in follow- through apparent, a great
practice and training aid. The light recoil and lower report of these loads
helps transition Junior tyro shooters from the .22 rimfire to the service rifle
without being intimidated by the noise and recoil.

Zeroing is no problem in the M1 or M14, because "The Load" shoots into the
ten-ring of the reduced SR target at 200 yards from your M1 or M14 rifle at
using your normal 600 yard sight dope! The somewhat greater wind deflection
blows you into the "8" ring at 200 yards with the same conditions you would
expect to do so at 600 yards with M118 Match ammunition. This provides your
Junior shooters some useful wind-doping practice.

The economy of a lighter charge is obvious. A full power .30-'06 load using 50
grs. of an IMR powder like 4064 costs 10 cents a pop, just for powder, at 140
rounds per pound (if you are lucky enough to find new powder for $14/lb.).
Substituting 13 grs. of Red Dot gets 538 rounds per pound at a cost of 2.6
cents which is a savings of over $7 per hundred rounds in powder alone! Greater
savings are possible if you get the best price and buy powder by the caddy.

Velocity and point of impact of "The Load" is not noticeably affected by
varying powder position in the case. I shoot them either slow fire, or clip-fed
and flipped through rapid-fire in the boltgun with equal accuracy. Red Dot is
very clean burning and is economical both on the basis of its lower charge
weight, and its lower basic cost per pound compared to other "rifle" powders.

Best of all, using a shotshell powder I already have reduces the kinds of
powder I keep and eliminates the need for a special "reduced load" powder. This
approach is ideal for rifle shooters who are also shotgunners, since almost
everybody who reloads for 12-ga. probably has a keg of Red Dot already!

I now realize it is foolish to use heavier charges of more expensive powder for
routine practice, varmint or small game loads in my center-fire rifles. I
seldom shoot at over 200 yards, and don't enjoy wearing out expensive target
barrels unnecessarily. Since I already have good sight dope and need to work
more on technique and save my remaining barrel accuracy life for matches.

I am glad I found the way to get alot more shooting for the dollar. Economical
powder choice IS possible, and my reloading has become less complicated and
more enjoyable simple since I realized I could do most of my rifle shooting
with 13 grains of Red Dot!

In Home Mix We Trust, Regards, Ed

Silvercreek Farmer
09-10-2012, 04:16 PM
More good stuff by Ed...

America's Greatest, The All-Around .30-'06
By C.E. Harris (Rev. 7-8-94)

The most popular deer camp discussion for generations has been that of the proverbial "All-Around Rifle". What would be YOUR choice if you could have only one rifle? Forget the apocalyptic, "Red Dawn" scenarios and consider only the present, and the realistic future. For me, the answer is plainly obvious. A .30-'06 bolt-action, because there's not much a skilled rifleman and handloader can't do with it.

Some years ago I was invited with a group of gun writers to a "bring your own rifle" hunt in Texas. One of the scribes was intent on doing a survey of what the "experts who could pick anything their heart desired" did, in fact, choose. The fellow doing the survey had built his own wildcat, just for the occasion. Of the dozen or so "experts" in attendance besides our wildcatter, one was a fancier of the .270 Winchester, and the rest of the rifles in camp were all .30-'06 boltguns. Now THAT would have made an interesting article, but the wildcatter, who had embarked with other ideas, never wrote it, a shame to be sure.

My gun rack currently holds six .30-'06 rifles, if you don't count the half-dozen or so extra barrels for my switch-barrel silhouette, target and bench rifles. My first .30-'06 was a DCM M1903A3. My second was an M1 Garand. My third was a custom Winchester Model 70 target rifle with Hart barrel and stock by Roy Dunlap. I'm sure my early exposure to highpower rifle competition, ROTC, handloading, DCM ammo, a particularly fine lot of TW54 Ball, and some even better LC63 National Match ammo had something to do with my love for the .30-'06. But, 30 years later, as I inspect and care for the brass I've hoarded, it still makes sense.

The variety of factory loads in .30-'06 is greater than for any other American cartridge. When handloading options are added, the possibilities are simply staggering. To keep it simple, five classes of .30-'06 loads cover all possible uses for a rifle. These are: small game and gallery loads; light varmint and target loads; service rifle loads; long range loads, and big game loads. There is, understandably, some overlap, as a "service rifle" load with match-type bullet becomes a fine "big game" load, with the substitution of a hunting-type bullet.

I recommend the .30-'06 handloader keep a limited selection of powder and bullet types which have flexibility for multiple purposes. One "reduced load" powder, one "service rifle" powder and one "long range or big game" powder will do it all. Similarly, for bullets, one light cast bullet plinker, a 160-180- gr. gas-checked target bullet, a "general purpose" 150-168-gr. jacketed hunting or match bullet, and a heavier 180-200-gr. target bullet for the serious hunting or long range shooter rounds out the whole menu. This enables you to produce economical, safe, and effective ammunition without accumulating odd lots of components which cause problems for storage or disposal later.

With this goal in mind, I'll describe each load class, and make some recommendations based upon my experience.

SMALL GAME AND GALLERY loads are quiet and low-powered, intended for use at 25 yards or less. I use them for indoor target shooting, and camp meat for the pot. They are also fine for easing the transition of youngsters from a .22 rimfire to a big game rifle. Cast bullets are best for this purpose. Light, jacketed bullets may be used, but require caution, to ensure that the bullet's bore-exit is totally reliable.

Most rifles produce 3/4" groups or less at 25 yards or in proportion to 100 yards. A few shoot ragged holes at 50 yards after load refinement. Light .32 revolver bullets can be used, but more satisfactory are heavier bullets from 130-170-grs. I cast these of soft backstop scrap, and shoot them tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox, without sizing or gascheck. I use the same NEI-52A, Saeco 322, or Lee .312-155-2R bullets I normally use, but without the gascheck. The Lyman #311291 and RCBS 30-150FN also work well for these light loads. Typical charges for plainbased loads are 5-6 grs. of Bullseye, SR-7625, W231, Red Dot, Green Dot or 700-X.

You can safely increase these charges up to 2 grains as needed to get best accuracy, but they will lead above 1300 f.p.s. unless gaschecked. Some individual rifles with smooth barrels shoot quite well up to 7 or 7.5 grs. of these powders, but best accuracy is usually obtained when velocities are kept subsonic.

I generally look for a velocity of 1080 +/- 30 f.p.s. These loads will usually shoot 2-1/2" to 3" groups at 100 yards using minor visual defect culls, which is OK for practice. The minimum safe load which will always exit the barrel for indoor gallery work is about 4 grs. of the above powders.

More caution is required when assembling subsonic loads with jacketed bullets, because there is some risk of the bullet becoming lodged in the bore at near-subsonic velocities. You should not attempt to use less than 6 grs. of the above pistol or shotgun powders when loading jacketed bullets unless you check the bore after every shot and keep your hammer and ramrod handy!

There are important safety considerations for all reduced loads. I don't recommend heavier charges with pistol powders (even though some manuals list them) unless the particular powder is bulky enough (like Red Dot), that an inadvertent double-charge fills or overflows the case so an error is immediately obvious on visual inspection. Extreme caution must be used with dense powders such as W-W231 in reduced loads, because even a double charge is hard to see with all that airspace, so an error is not apparent. If you use fast pistol or shotgun powders in reduced loads, ensure the charge is light enough that a mistaken double- load will only blow primers, rather than destroying the rifle!

Spitzer bullets generally give poor accuracy below about 1600 f.p.s. due to gyroscopic instability, blunt round- or flat-nosed bullets are best. The 100-110-gr. .32-20, .32 H&R Magnum and .30 M1 Carbine bullets are often suggested for small game loads, but in my experience won't produce 1" groups at 50 yards, my accuracy criteria. Any decent .22 rimfire will shoot 1" groups at 50 yards, and a center-fire small game load should do as well, right?

The most satisfactory jacketed bullet reduced loads are assembled using my standard 200-yard target charges used with gaschecked cast bullets. Accurate boltgun practice loads which will shoot "on" at 200 yards close to your normal 600-yd. sight dope with either 150-175 gr. pulled GI bullets or 150-200 gr. cast, gaschecked bullets are: 12-13 grs. of Red Dot, Green Dot or 700X, 15-16 grs. of #2400, 18-20 grs. of 4227 or 21-23 grs. of 4198.

My favorite jacketed bullets for reduced .30-06 loads are the bulk Remington 150-gr. .30-30 soft points. This is because I keep them around to load .30-30s, but they are highly accurate at minimum velocities and are also suitable for mild '06 deer loads with 35 grs of 3031 or RL-7, which approximates .30-30 ballistics.

The 123-gr., 7.62x39 spitzer FMJ bullets give good plinking accuracy above 1600 f.p.s., using the above listed "200-yd. Target" charges.. Grouping is improved by increasing the charge, not to exceed 27 grs. of #2400 or 30 grs. of 4227 which approximates 7.62x39 ballistics. With 150-gr. .30-30 bullets, do not exceed 25 grs. of #2400, which gives 2100 f.p.s., a nice deer load for youngsters, women, or elderly hunters with pacemakers who can't take the recoil of a full '06.

"SERVICE RIFLE" loads approximate the performance, and accuracy of military "ball" or "match" ammunition for target shooting over the National Match Course. It is important that the powder charge, bullet type, and ballistic parameters not vary significantly from arsenal ammunition, in order to ensure they function as intended in semi-automatic, quasi-military arms.

The ballistics of Ball M2 service ammunition, (2740 +/- 30 f.p.s.) with a 150-gr. spitzer, flatbased bullet are approximated in GI cases with a charge of 47.5 grs. of current Hodgdon or IMR 4895, or 50 grs. of IMR-4064 or Olin's W-W748. Accurate Arms 2015BR and 2495BR are also suitable using the charges recommended by them. In commercial brass these powder charges intended for GI cases may be increased 1 grain. These are fine match loads for offhand and 200 rapid in the M1 using the 150-gr. Sierra MatchKing or the new 155-gr. "Palma" bullets.

Prior to the introduction of the 168-gr. Sierra MatchKing, the 125-gr. spitzer was favored for 200-yd. offhand and sitting rapid-fire stages of the National Match Course. These are highly accurate, and ideal for the reduced scale courses for use by junior shooters, to reduce costs and minimize recoil. The charges for 150-gr. bullets, listed above, function the M1 rifle and are accurate. They also make dandy woodchuck loads.

WITH 168-SIERRA OR PULLED GI MATCH BULLETS a charge of 46 grs. of 4895; or 48 grs. of 4064 or 748 approximates .30-'06 M72 match ammunition (2640 +/- 30 f.p.s). With 168-gr. match bullets, these charges may be increased 1 grain, but if the 180-gr. Sierra MatchKing is used (a GREAT 600-yd. bullet for the M1) they should be REDUCED the same amount. I do not recommend slower powders or heavier bullets for the M1, because heavier charges of slower powders operate the mechanism with more force than service ammunition, and may damage the operating rod or other parts. You are free to use the "long-range" loads below in your Springfield or M1917, and they also work well for hunting loads in bolt- action rifles, using soft point bullets of the same weight.

"LONG RANGE" loads are heavy target loads for bolt-action match rifles, intended for use at the 600-yard stage of the National Match Course, and for longer ranges, such as 1000 yard events. The loads which follow are for use in bolt-action rifles only. (Semi-auto and slide-action rifles should be used with the "service rifle" charges listed above).

I consider it routine for all long-range target loads in boltguns to uniform the flash hole diameters with a No.2 long center drill, and the primer pockets, using the Whitetail Match-Prep tool. In addition, I neck turn all cases to 0.011-0.012" neck wall thickness, and check-weigh all cases to +/-3 grains to ensure uniform powder capacity. I used to check cases to +/- 1 grain, but while this is appropriate for a small case like a .223, in the '06 it is "measuring with micrometers while cutting with axes! Uniforming flash holes, primer pockets and neck wall concentricity gets you the most improvement. Weighing cases is only used to isolate the extremely "heavy" or "light" ones.

These can still be used for load development, or for slow-fire standing stages. Don't pitch them. In boltguns cases should be fire-formed in the particular rifle they will be used in, and then neck-sized only, using a Jones sizer with .330" ring or Lee collet and dead-length seater.

It is entirely unnecessary to weigh every powder charge if you use a good powder measure and consistent technique, but you should always verify the measure setting with a scale when you set up. My favorite powders for long range loads in the .30-'06 are either IMR or Hodgdon 4350. Accurate Arms has their own brand of 4350, which works well using the loads they recommend. With Hodgdon or IMR 4350 powder, using commercial cases with an average weight of 185 grs., and either Winchester WLR or Federal 210M primers, I use 56 grs. with the 180-gr. Sierra MatchKing, 54 grs. with the 185 Lapua, or 53 grs. with the 190s at 600 yards. For windy days at 600 and for 1000 yards I use 52 grs. with a 200-gr. Sierra MatchKing.

Overall cartridge length is 3.40", or adjusted to clear the lands upon chambering by 0.010" to 0.030". You should avoid "jamming" bullets into the rifling, but "jump" should not exceed 1/10 of the bullet diameter. These cartridge exceed magazine length and are intended for single-loading only. If using these charges for hunting loads with softpoint bullets, to be magazine fed, reduce the charges 1-1/2 grains. Powder charges should also be reduced 1/2 grain for each 5 grain difference in average case weight to compensate for heavier military brass.

Some people like slower powders such as 4831 for long-range loads in the .30-'06. While I have found that 58 grs. of H4831 works well with a 200-gr. bullet, it doesn't group as well for me as 4350 with the lighter 180-190-gr. bullets. Always pick the best grouper over whatever the chronograph says. If grouping is equal, for matches pick the bullet which is the better wind bucker. The 200-gr. Sierra Matchking is the best choice in .30- '06 boltguns for 1000 yards or for windy days at 600.

"GAME LOADS" for deer and larger game can be based on the target charges above, with seating depth and powder charge adjustments for magazine feeding of hunting-type bullets. While heavy bullets are preferred for elk, moose or bear, the average hunter after deer will be best served with one load, which he knows well. I want my hunting loads to approximate factory ammunition, so if I run out and must buy a box somewhere, I'll not have to check my zero, and scare all the game away.

With a 150-gr. spitzer soft-point, 52 grs. of IMR-4064 or W-W 748 in commercial cases approximates the factory 2800 f.p;.s. velocity. With a 165-gr. boattail, 56 grs. of 4350 is a dead ringer for Federal's Premium load. With the 180-gr. Nosler Partition, 55 grs. at 3.30" overall cartridge length, in commercial brass, approximates the 180-gr. Federal Premium load. With either load reduce charges a grain if using GI cases. For larger game such as moose, elk, or bear, the "long range" loads above work well with premium big game bullets of the same weight.

In semi-auto or slide-action .30-'06 hunting rifles the "service rifle" charges listed above should be used. These are somewhat less than maximum, and provide very satisfactory game loads with a hunting bullet of the same weight.

Summing up, the .30-'06 is the most versatile American center- fire cartridge, and has not been improved upon. If you have leftover pistol or shotshell powders around, you can load .30-'06 practice loads with it and have alot of fun for not much money. If you keep Red Dot or 700-X around for loading skeet and trap loads for your 12-ga., or if you have #2400 or 4227 around for loading .410 skeet loads or a magnum caliber handgun, you don't need to buy another powder for reduced loads. The same is true if you keep 4198 around for your .222 Rem.

Of all the rifle powders, 4198 is the best reduced load powder for the .30-'06, from 1300-2000 f.p.s. because it bulks up well, and is not position sensitive. If you don't load need to make minimum subsonic small game or gallery loads (4198 doesn't work for these) and you don't already have other suitable powders available, and want to buy the best rifle powder for moderately reduced rifle loads, 4198 is my recommendation.

The "Real .30-'06 powders" for full loads are 4895, 4064 and 4350. IMR-4895 replaced IMR 4676 for military ball ammunition about 1944 and was the standard propellent for military .30-'06 Ball and Match ammunition. It is adaptable to a variety of cartridges. If you want just one rifle powder to use for everything 4895 is "it". Some target shooters feel that "long grain" powders like 4064 and 4350 give better grouping than "short cut" powders like 4895, which are preferred for machine loading. Even though coarser powders don't measure as well, they are highly accurate. If this is your choice, substitute 4064 for the 4895 and you won't be disappointed. For maximum loads in .30-'06 boltguns it's hard to beat 4350. I've tried other powders, but I keep coming back to 4350, because its consistent and always predicable, just like my .30-'06.

That's why I like the .30-'06. It's like an experienced old horse that always knows its way back to camp, so you can just do the job and relax. What else do you want in a rifle?

Silvercreek Farmer
09-25-2012, 11:43 AM
More yet:

A year or so ago friends recently gave me several thousand pulled Cal. 30 Ball M2 (152-gr.FMJ) bullets and fired empty cases. These had been accumulated from DCM .30-’06 ammunition from which they had pulled the GI bullets and replaced them with Sierra 155-gr. Palmas over the original powder to use for competition. I was offered half the fired brass and pulled bullets to use my Dillon Auto-Swage 600 to rework the cases and work up a gallery load for Junior training and rapid-fire practice at 100 yards in bolt action military rifles. The intent was to approximate the old M1906 Guard cartridge. An article in Rifle Magazine, March-April 1990, by Jeffrey W. Houck, p49 was a useful resource to assist with this.

Reduced range guard cartridges were developed for use in the M1903 Springfield on urban installations where full power ammunition posed a risk of collateral damage if fired in anger. The M1906 Guard cartridge used a reduced charge of Bullseye powder with the standard 150-gr. FMJ service bullet. It was identified by 6 dents or flutes on the shoulder of the cartridge case. According to ordnance pamphlets, the M1906 Guard cartridge gave accuracy equal to normal Ball ammunition at ranges up to 200 yards and shot approximately to point of aim at 100 yards using the standing bar of the folded down battle sight on the M1903 Springfield rifle. At a range of 200 yards the Guard cartridge required an elevation of 650 yards on the elevation slide.

My initial experiments sought a subsonic load producing minimum noise, but 100-yard groups with the M2 Ball bullets loaded subsonic weren’t not as good as when they were driven a bit faster. Nor did I find any benefit to using pistol primers, inert space fillers in the cartridge case or enlarged flash holes using Bullseye powder in these .30-’06 gallery loads.

Once-fired LC military cases were full length resized; primer pockets swaged, trimmed to length and primed with standard Winchester Large Rifle primers. After experimentation I settled on a charge of 8 grains of Alliant Bullseye as the best compromise using pulled Ball M2 150-grain or 148-grain 7.62mm M80 jacketed bullets. After seating bullets were crimped using the Lee Factory Crimp die. Velocity from my 22" Mauser sporter with European style, long tapered throat is 1080 f.p.s. and from a Sako A2 silhouette rifle with 24” Douglas Premium barrel with tight-necked target chamber and SAAMI throat 1160 f.p.s. Report and recoil are mild, like shooting a .32-20.

The average of five consecutive 5-shot groups fired at 50 yards from the Mauser sporter with 4X scope was 1.2 inches. The point of impact at 50 yards was 3.5" below that of normal Ball M2, which enabled using the heavy duplex reticule as a short-range post, using my normal zero for 180-gr. hunting ammunition. The Sako with 10X scope shot very consistent inch groups at 50 yards. So it was time to go to out to 100 yards and stop “fooling around.”

The Mauser sporter struck much, much lower at 100 yards, and required re-zeroing, but accuracy was fairly good, averaging 2.6” for ten consecutive 5-shot groups at 100 yards. This grouping compares with full-power Ball M2 ammunition from the CMP. The Sako with 10X scope averaged 2inches for ten consecutive 5-shot groups, also typical of M2 Ball ammunition fired in that rifle.

While I was at it, I decided to test cast bullets, without a GC, to compare their performance against the Ball M2 pulls. The cast bullets were cast in 4-cavity gang moulds and sight culled only. They were loaded as-cast and unsized after tumbling with Lee Liquid Alox. I found them highly satisfactory as practice, training, small game and utility loads useable in any sound .30-’06 rifle. Cast bullet groups were equal to or better than the M2 pulls, an inch at 50 yards and 2 inches or so at 100 yards. Velocities using the 8 grain charge and 152-grain plainbased cast bullets such as the #308241 or RCBS 30-150CB approached 1400 f.p.s., and caused mild leading in other than the target grade barrels. For general use I recommend reducing the charge with cast bullets to 7.0 grains of Bullseye so that leading won't impair accuracy over longer strings of fire.

The M1919 Gallery Practice cartridge used a 140-grain, plain-based, round-nose lead bullet shaped very much like the Ideal #308241. Prior to WWII it was reclassified as the Cartridge, Guard, M1. This lead bullet reduced load was originally intended for indoor and outdoor short-range practice. It was alternately used as a Guard cartridge around defense plants and military installations in non-combat areas which didn’t require the FMJ bullet of the M1906 Guard cartridge for compliance with the 1905 Hague Convention.

Gallery Practice cartridges were loaded with a charge of Sporting Rifle No. 80 powder to attain about 1100 f.p.s. Guard units commonly reloaded indoor practice ammunition. Ideal Reloading manuals prior to WWII and Phil Sharpe's Complete Guide to Handloading (1937). featured data for assembling gallery center-fire rifle loads.

Cast loads using 7 grains of Bullseye with the RCBS 30-150CB or GC type bullets of similar blunt shape, but used without the GC should be cast no harder than wheelweights. These light loads do not cycle the action of semi-automatic rifles, but can be hand cycled from clips in the Garand when the action is worked manually. The 7 grain charge of Bullseye can be used in the 7.62x54R Russian, 7.62 NATO cartridge or 8mm Mauser (with proper bullets) with similar results. To produce similar gallery loads for the 7.65 Argentine, 7.7 Japanese, .303 British, or .30-30, which operate at lower pressure use 6 grains of Bullseye with a 150-grain lubricated cast bullet, 110-gr. jacketed .30 carbine softpoints or 123-grain .310-.311 jacketed 7.62x39 bullets, as appropriate for the caliber.

When using reduced charges of dense, fast-burning pistol powder it is absolutely necessary to visually inspect 100% every case for correct powder fill using a pen light to positively prevent missing or double charges or spilled powder.

To recap, if low noise and minimum danger space are the goal, carefully load 8grs. of Bullseye in the .30-'06, 7.62 NATO, 7.62x54R Russian or 8mm Mauser with a 150-gr. jacketed bullet appropriate for the caliber. Lighter jacketed bullets such as 110-gr. softpoints designed for the .30 M1 carbine can be used in the .30 cal. rifles. The 123-gr. .310-.311 bullets intended for the 7.62x39 work well in the 7.62x54R Russian and .303 British. Do not reduce these charges further with jacketed bullets because below 1000 f.p.s., you are likely to "stick" a bullet in the bore.

If you do stick a bullet in the barrel the safe way to remove it is by first flooding the barrel with Kano Kroil penetrating oil, then using the Brownell's "squibb rod" (in the .32 revolver size) threaded with the adapter onto a one-piece Dewey cleaning rod and tapping the bullet out using many light taps.

You may substitute a soft, lubricated lead cast bullet of a weight similar to or less than the service bullet with good results. Do not reduce charges further because ignition. Do not use any inert cartridge case space fillers and stick to standard large rifle primers.

Bottlenecked cases such as the .30-'06 which are reloaded frequently with these reduced loads will shorten in head-to-shoulder length, being driven forward into the chamber by the primer blast. Rimmed cases used in reduced loads do not suffer from this difficulty. Gallery loads are a good way to use nearly worn-out cases one more time before smashing them for scrap to trade to the recycler for lead with which you will cast more bullets.

Antietamgw
10-20-2012, 12:33 AM
Thanks kindly for posting Ed's articles. I go back and read them every year or so in my dogeared old Gun Digests and copies I've printed I've printed over the years. Good to have them here online.

a.squibload
10-21-2012, 04:15 PM
Thanks for this thread.
Been keeping paper-patch in the back corner of
my mind for the old 303 Brit, sounds like it's
not absolutely necessary. This might get me to
start casting for it instead of just thinkin' about it.

7 Ring
10-25-2012, 11:43 PM
This thread is an excellent resource for old military bolt action loads.

Thank you !