First smelting, in review with a few ?

[RU shooter]

Well I melted down my first batch of WW yesterday , I used a old kerosene heater I had in the shed and modified it so the old SS tea pot the wife graciously donated sat alot closer to the flame. Anyways on a 35 degree day I found kero. will just barely get the job done ,I filled the pot up with WW and come back in about a hr. and it was finally melted:???: ! Well that was OK I had nothing beter to do anyways, So I skim off all the uglyness that was floating on top and low and behold I had my first pot of liquid shiney lead alloy ,So i know its time to flux it now from reading the old posts .I drop in a 1/2" pc. of candle ,starts smoking as I expected and then up in flames it all goes ,NOW is that supposed to happen ?????? or did I screw up with something?
So after the flame die down and I check to see if my facial hair is all intact I skim again, lay out the muffin pan and proceed to pour my first lead muffins(the tea pot worked verry well for this BTW, I get about 9 muffins and only 5 drop out of the pan ,So I have to beat /pry and destroy the pan to get the rest out what did I do wrong? did I need to prep the pan with something first and do I need to prep it every time I pour a new muffin?

My thoughts on my first experience : I need more heat, and a new muffin pan! But I am on my way to my first boolits ! any words of wisdom from the masters?..................................RU

[grumpy one]

First, it is normal for the fumes from a piece of tallow flux to self-ignite. If it didn't, you'd need to light it with a match - the fumes are highly obnoxious otherwise.

Second, assuming your muffin pans were tapered as they normally are, you'd only have had trouble getting the ingots out if they had bonded to the pan material or if there was some kind of a ridge or pattern in the sides of the pan that keyed the ingot and the pan together. So, it certainly isn't normal or acceptable for them to get stuck. Check whether there is some physical feature that might have done it, such as a ridge in the pan that you covered with lead. Did you use a teflon-coated muffin dish? That won't work - molten lead is much too hot for teflon. If that wasn't it, it sounds as if your bullet metal has tinned the pan, which shouldn't be able to happen unless you had very much higher tin content than wheelweights have. So, it seems like we need more information, or a response from someone else who's had this happen to him.

Geoff

[RayinNH]

RU, congratulations. Jumping into the water the first time is the hardest, especially when you don't know how deep or cold it is. As to the flames from the candle, that almost always happens so keep your body parts back. If your muffin pan was of the sheet steel variety, I've never had good luck with those. Aluminum would be better, as lead won't stick to aluminum, however the aluminum is soft and bends easily if care is not taken. Cast iron muffin tins or cornbread moulds work very well. These can be found at yard sales or Good Will shops pretty inexpensively. Some on this board have made ingot moulds from angle or channel iron as well. If you do a search of the board you will get more detail as to how they are made. You can also use soda cans, however they must be absolutely dry. When the lead has cooled just peel the can away...Ray

[GP100man]

ru

candles are pariffin & will do exactly what you said,smoke a little then ignite with
force!!!
the muffin pan was probably tin coated, so when you added molten alloy
it melted &stuck to the pan, having to destroy to recover alloy.

some will suggest some fluxing material such as sawdust

i use steel ingot molds made from angle iron slightly rusted to aid in release.

[shooter575]

Heehe, HeyRU, let the muffin tin get a coating of rust.Remember that aloy is basicly solder.It will stick to clean steel.Dont feel bad.I would bet most of have done it.I have!
All the home made fluxes will flair up.when it is burning stirr it real good.Got to get that flux to the bottom of the pot.I like a handfull of sawdust [dry] from under my table saw and stirr with a 1" sq. pine stick. Works for me.

[robertbank]

I had the same problem you have had with muffin tins. I just kept dropping the pan until the ingots fell out. Less each time I used the tins. Not sure what else to do but just make sure the tines are just plain Jane and run with it.

Take Care

Bob

[RU shooter]

Thanks all , Yes the muffin pan was just the regular plain tin kind so I guess that explains that ! I'll try the soda cans next i think ,there alway plentifull at my house with 3 kids that dont know that water is for drinking. And the flux just had to ignite the moment the wife stuck her head out the door and say's " yer gonna set your self on fire! just go buy the stupid things"!:( !!!!!!! My reply was " But it isnt as fun if there isnt fire involved,and your getting a new tea pot and muffin pan so no comments from the peanut gallery"!
But I had a enjoyable afternoon trying something new and learning as I go!Only about 100 lbs. of WW to go till I go out again this weekend for another search for more, Man this is addictive already!:-D .............................RU

[robertbank]

Send Hunter a PM you two guys could be brothers.

Good Hunting.

Take Care

Bob

[carpetman]

RU Shooter--There is another weird alternative. Buy an ingot mold. Had mine almost 40 years and I bought it used.

[VTDW]

RU shooter:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I love your writing style.:drinks:

Dave

[montana_charlie]

I'd like to see a picture of that SS teapot...
CM

[RU shooter]

I'd like to see a picture of that SS teapot...
CM Here it is on top of the "kero Smelter "....................RU

[Steve Collins]

I'm about to jump into that fire myself, and I can tell you I'm about as nervous as a hooker walking the Vatican about this smelting and casting stuff!:( Thanks for relating some of your troubles, I won't feel so bad when I come back and tell you all I did the same thing!:mrgreen: Gee, maybe I'll even make some new mistakes!

[RU shooter]

Steve , Dont worry man ! just keep yer head from over the pot when you toss that flux in:shock: :shock: That was about my only supprise. Its just like melting a stick o butter in a pan except it takes longer and its silver and 600 degrees! and just like an old foreman at work used to tell us " if you aint messing something up the first few times you aint tryin hard enough to do it right!" And dont breath the fumes! I weld Alot of galv. steel which is zinc plated steel at work , I thought that stuff was wicked ,Wrong those WW fumes will kick yer butt. Good luck and be safe ..........RU

[wills]

A half inch of candle is probably a lot more than you need; the proverbial pea size chunk will likely suffice. Yes, your flux will flame up, somehow this is something we always forget to tell those venturing into their first casting experience. If I recall correctly the fire may help by eliminating some oxygen from the melt.

Keep a lid that fits your smelting pot nearby to snuff out the flames should they get higher than you like.

I had a similar experience with a “non stick” muffin pan. The alloy stuck, and I destroyed the pan and wound up with the muffins/ingots still in the aluminum (or whatever) cups from the pan. Had to drop the whole thing in the pot to melt the alloy out in order to cast. Get yourself some Old Rusty Muffin Pans. They Will Not Stick.

Regarding the virtues of rusty ingot molds:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=2809&highlight=leave+rain

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=31181&postcount=7

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=31186&postcount=9

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=31388&postcount=14

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=6344&highlight=rusty+muffin

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=29467&postcount=20

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=2051&highlight=rusty+muffin

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=15158&postcount=10

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=1375&highlight=rusty+muffin

[RU shooter]

Yes, your flux will flame up, somehow this is something we always forget to tell those venturing into their first casting experience. ] What is this some twisted Rite of passage into the casting community:twisted: !!!!! Lets watch the new guy singe his eyebrows off:-D !!!! Well since all my face hair is still intact did I pass?????? Its gonna take abit more than a little flame up to deter me!...

[Blacktail 8541]

No its not a right of passage, but it should be. I still jump sometimes when it flames up and I know its going to happen!

[wills]

What is this some twisted Rite of passage into the casting community:twisted: !!!!! !...

That comes later, after you start making your own boolit lube and actually burn down the house. Try to be insured for replacement value.

[Howdy Doody]

RU, I smoke my molds with a propane torch, same for my muffin pan. I have only had to smoke that pan a couple times in 3 years of use. I like the pans ingots better than my ingot mold actually, I just don't get that nifty Lyman name on them, but I do scratch into them what the mix is with a screwdriver.

Fluxing a batch? I use boolit lube. I make my own lube, so basically it is 1/2 beeswax and 1/2 mutton tallow ............BP shooter you know. I have heard other lubes work great too.

I like your tea pot. Especially being able to pour. I have to use a ladle for mine. I melt in a old Lee 20 pound pot and get about 4 muffins per WW melt.:-D

[Nardoo]

RU,
Love your handle. Roo shooters here in Australia have a great heritage. The originals were a breed of tough men that made their living shooting kangaroos in the outback. When they were sent off to war they surprised the hell out of the enemy with their ability to hit from long range with their .303 SMLE's.
I use dry bark or leaves for flux. Have a lighter or match ready to burn off the smoke.
Visit yard sales until you turn up an old cast iron or aluminium muffin tin. Here in Oz we call them gem scone trays but they work a treat. They are a part of a spere in shape and the ingots almost jump out on their own.

Nardoo

[RU shooter]

Thanks Nardoo , But the "RU" is different meaning than your "Roo" mine is RU as in the abrev. for Russia. As most of my rifles that I most enjoy shooting are Russian origin of one era or another. BTW do they still hunt Roo's legally ,No seriously If so Do they use the hide and meat? hows it taste? and dont dare tell me "like chicken" just always wondered about them little jumpin critters................................RU

[spottedpony]

what could use a good name like "The Rusty Muffin?" :mrgreen: (sorry guys but i couldnt resist that one) :bigsmyl2:

[Swamprat1052]

Wills, you're right about burning the house down making boolit lube. I am just starting out casting but I found that out the other day. Good thing I was outside with a coleman stove and I bought an old sauce pan at Goodwill. Mama might have shut the whole operation down if she had been home and if I had blackened one of her good pans. I had quite a blaze going there for a minute. When Felix says cook over low heat, he means LOW HEAT.

Swamprat