Help!!! lol Stuck ingots

[Swamprat1052]

OK, I smelted down my first wheel weights today. I used an old cast iron dutch oven and a turkey frier. Man it melted em just fine. Used an aluminum muffin pan for my ingots and only one problem now. I cant get the ingots out. I let it cool for a couple of hours and thought it was cool enough. Couldnt budge em, ran water over bottom of pan to cool more, still nothing. I did manage to get the cups of the pan to come loose, lol. Now I have ingots, but they are still in the aluminum.

Where did I go wrong?

Swamprat

[cbrick]

Swamprat, interesting. I've never used aluminum cup cake pans but the only SWAG I can come up with sounds like the aluminum was too thin and when the hot alloy filled the cup it stretched with the heat. When the alloy cooled off and shrank (lead shrinks when cooled) the aluminum just shrank with it so the ingot didn't come loose. This is just a SWAG for lack of thinking of anything else. You might try freezing them, that might shrink'em enough to get'em out.

Let us know the outcome, there are probably several folks that have had similair experiences.

Rick

[leftiye]

I don't know where you went wrong, but I'd spray the next muffin pan with Franklin arsenal mold release maybe!

[Swamprat1052]

Cbrick, thanks for the info. I am trying the freezer but so far to no avail. I am old enough to remember changing sleeves on the old truck and tractor engines, we always froze the sleeves to get em into the block. I know that guys use these pans for molds, but I thought when it cooled off the lead would contract and fall out, WRONG!!!

I guess if the freezer dont do it, I can melt it again, the pan should turn loose then and float like the clips shouldnt they. I may have to invest in some ingot molds. I was afraid that the non stick surface on the the no stick pans would melt at these temps. Maybe thats what they use?

Thanks again guys.

Swamprat

[rmb721]

Are the holes in your muffin pan tapered? They need to be. You should only need to let them cool for a few minutes before dumping them out. Just so they are solid.

[ejjuls]

You may have got your lead a little too hot and melted your aluminum a bit.
I did that off of my turkey fryer (I use it for processing mass batches of WW's into ingots). I would suggest re-melting your lead and before you pour into your aluminum pans - set them on the ground rather than a bench or such. I found they will dissipate heat quicker if you set them on the cold ground - frozen ground works the best. As soon as they are set - not peanut-buttery in consistency dump them out. Try not to run your fryer wide-open either - just enough to melt and flux as needed.

Hope that helps
Eric

[garandsrus]

Swamprat,

Are your aluminum muffin tins bright and shiny silver colored? If they are, the lead should drop right out. I usually empty mine after the lead has pretty much solidified (don't know about the middle of the muffin) but before they are cool. The only reason I dump them when I do is so that I can use the mold again! The lead should not stick to the aluminum.

The more common muffin tins now available have some type of coating on them. They are not bright and shiny, generally dull and dark. These don't work well with lead and I am guessing that these are what you have. People have had success using these after they leave them outside for a while to rust.

John

[cbrick]

rmb721 brought up a very good point that I didn't think of. Are the aluminum pan cups tapered? If not you may have to re-melt the alloy to get it out.

I have no idea what temp teflon would melt at. You could probably Google it and find out.

I use the RCBS 10 pound cast iron pots as ingot moulds. They make flat top and bottom 5 pound ingots when filled half full or 2 1/2 pound ingots when filled 1/4 full. They will make 10 pound ingots but at 10 pounds they WILL NOT fit into the RCBS 22 pound casting pot for re-melting.

http://www.lasc.us/5lbingots.jpg

Rick

[Uncle R.]

Are you absolutely certain your muffin pans are aluminum? There are a lot of steel pans on the market now with some kind of non-stick coating and they have separate "cups" crimped into them - which kinda sounds like what you describe. Bullet alloy will solder itself to the inserts very nicely - don't ask me how I know.
:roll:
Check your pans with a magnet - I'm guessing they aren't really aluminum. If they're steel you might be best off to melt the whole mess down again, skim the "cups" and pour into ingots from something else.
Good luck!
Uncle R.

[wills]

Rusty steel muffin pans work best. I had the same problem with aluminum pans, I just left the ingots in the pan till i was ready to use them, put them in the pot and let the led melt out of the cup.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=2809&highlight=leave+rain

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=31181&postcount=7

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=31186&postcount=9

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=31388&postcount=14

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=6344&highlight=rusty+muffin

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=29467&postcount=20

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=2051&highlight=rusty+muffin

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=15158&postcount=10

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=1375&highlight=rusty+muffin

[Swamprat1052]

WOW!!! You guys are great. Thanks for all the tips. The pans are aluminum but I left the lead in it too long. I melted them back down and did a redo. This time I just let the lead get set as you guys said and they dumped right out. I didnt do a whole bunch at once (only about 25 lbs.) so it wasnt a big deal. I figured it would be easier to redo a smaller amt. than a whole bunch.

I still dont think I have the fluxing down just right but my ingots arent gritty feeling and are pretty clean. I did another pot full after I got the first one redone and they look a lot better. I fluxed more and let it burn longer and the liquid was a lot cleaner. I guess maybe an old dog can learn a new trick. Or is it that a blind sow finds an acorn once in a while? lol.

Thanks for all your help.

Swamprat

[Forester]

not knowing any reason not too I bought steel muffin tins with a teflon coating. I took them home and started out burning the teflon off with the pan set over the turkey frier. That worked but was a smokey mess.

I decided just to pour the ingots and not wory about any teflon that stuck to them. That seems to have worked just fine and I have no issues with sticking ingots. FWIW my muffin tins taper at a pretty shallow angle so that probably helps with release.

[Treeman]

You don't have to let steel pans rust for good release-Smoke 'em. I like an acetylene torch with the oxygen off. soot up those new steel pans and they'll drop right out.

[hornetguy]

I haven't checked it out, but I'm pretty sure teflon won't take over about 450-475 degrees... I used some teflon sleeves for bearings on a conveyor oven, and they worked ok, but our temps were only about 275-300 or so.
Most plastics won't go much over 400-500 degrees, except some of the new polymers, like Ultem... I think it's up around 650-700.

[handyrandyrc]

This is what you want!!! I had the same problem, and ended up denting/ruining the tins -- the cups ended up coming free from the main tin. They were cheap multi-piece tins... Luckily I only had poured 6 before this happened, and used some mould release...

http://www.commbloc.net/handyrandyrc/images/smelt-3.jpg

[Goatlips]

The mold release does the job as Randy said but do not do not try to "save" money and use PAM, it just don't work on lead muffins, and contains a lot of moisture - my first ingots looked like Manuel Noriega's face and smelled even worse. :neutral:

Goatlips

[Ricochet]

I tried plated steel muffin pans. Ended up with ingots soldered to the plated steel firmly, and the pan was ruined. Black oil-seasoned cast iron corn stick moulds have worked very well.

[Swamprat1052]

OK, they look like aluminum, they feel like aluminum and the tag on them said aluminum, but a magnet will stick to em. I managed to get it done but it was a mess. I am gonna go a different route. I may take the 2 pans I have left and see if they'll rust. Thanks.

Swamprat

[wills]

I seem to recall someone saying teflon gives off toxic gas if you heat it hot enough to burn it off the pan.

[Ricochet]

That's true. My wife burned up a Teflon pan in the kitchen once. We had to leave the house. I opened the doors and let it air out for a good while before we came back in. I was coughing terribly for days, with a lingering mild cough for a good while afterward. That was some nasty gas!

[Junior1942]

Beware of rusty ingot molds!!!!! The rust absorbs moisture from the air, especially here in high humidity Louisiana. When you fill a rusty muffin tin here, it spits, sputters, and splatters lead.

[swabbie]

I love the computer,the internet and gun related forums:drinks:
I was just ponderin stealin one of wifey's old muffin pans(having spent a bunch on pots,lubrisizers,and moulds.)
I'm glad I saw this thread.time to keep readin!

[carpetman]

To keep ingots from sticking dont melt the alloy. Take your pocket knife and pulverize the wheel weightts are whatever your rendering. Maybe pulverize is not right word,but anyways you whittle on em and put the shavings into the muffin pan and mix up cream of wheat maybe to make a glue to hold the shavings together. You now have an ingot that will easily slide out of any muffin tin and you wont have to be concerned what material they are made of and will be able to use any muffin pan on the planet and not be out the sky rocketing price of an ingot mold.

[mechdriver]

I seem to recall someone saying teflon gives off toxic gas if you heat it hot enough to burn it off the pan.

If you do a search for Teflon Flu you'll find that Dupont has known about this problem with teflon since before it's release. They determined that the health hazard to us consumers is not worth lowering their profit margin.

Bottom line. It would be better for us all if we avoided teflon in the kitchen as well as the smelting process.

Cook with cast iron and smelt with it too.

Mechdriver

[Typecaster]

Junior—

"High humidity Louisiana?" We never noticed high humidity when we visited #1 son when he was at Tulane...we just thought it was nature's way of saying it's time to get inside somewhere for a drink!

Even in Southern California my Lyman cast iron ingot moulds will rust and sputter. I just rest them on the outside ring (frame) of the turkey fryer to warm as the first load of WWs is melting. Problem solved.

[TAWILDCATT]

go to the hardware store and get cast iron muffin pans or corn bread pans.they much better and will drop the ingots out.I have them and cast iron bread stick pans you get variety and weight.--[smilie=1::coffee:

[nicky4968]

Teflon is a very long string of carbon atoms, with a bunch of fluorine atoms stuck on. I don't know exactly what comes off this stuff when you overheat it, but it can't be good.

F F F F F
! ! ! ! !
F- C-C-C-C-C-F
! ! ! ! !
F F F F F

Something like this, only a lot longer. Best I can do on keyboard.

[Edward429451]

Just don't leave them in the pan so long. Barely solid is fine and dump em over. I've never had a problem doing this.

Whatever you do...don't ever let a boolit cool completely in a mould. They are the devil to get out. Ask me how I know...

[DLCTEX]

I always leave the last boolit in the mold when I'm done casting. I figure it protects the mold.I smoke the mold cavities and don't have too bad a problem getting the cold boolit out. Dale

[Cherokee]

Why not just buy some of the Lyman/RCBS/Lee ingot molds like I did 30+ years ago. They work real good.

[clintsfolly]

have you priced then lately? clint

[hansenvilla]

If you spray your muffin tins with either Midway's Mold release or Molybdenum disulfide the ersatz ingots will just fall out when you tip 'em over. It is not recommended to sneak the pan back into the kitchen cupboard after so using it.

[bishopgrandpa]

It does cost but if you do a search for Griswold on ebay you'll find cast iron trays that are great for ingots and you will never worry about stuck or bent trays. They will last a lifetime. Worth the money if you wait for the right deal.

[wheezengeezer]

To keep ingots from sticking dont melt the alloy. Take your pocket knife and pulverize the wheel weightts are whatever your rendering. Maybe pulverize is not right word,but anyways you whittle on em and put the shavings into the muffin pan and mix up cream of wheat maybe to make a glue to hold the shavings together. You now have an ingot that will easily slide out of any muffin tin and you wont have to be concerned what material they are made of and will be able to use any muffin pan on the planet and not be out the sky rocketing price of an ingot mold.

you have a heckuva lot more free time than i have! sure wouldnt want to put one of these in a pot of molten lead.

[Typecaster]

wheezengeezer—
Too much free time is what brings us to this hobby....

[gon2shoot]

I just rub mine with a stick of parrafin while they're warm, and they're good to go the next time.

[Andy_P]

I use steel teflon coated muffin and min-load pans, and the ingots drop out like nobody's business.

"Teflon Flu"? Is that the latest myth to feed the worry warts? I smelt outdoors, and the highest temp to which the pans are ever heated is about 600F and only briefly - not too far above Baking muffins in the oven temp. We're not talking taking a torch to them and snorting the fumes.

[C1PNR]

Do I remember an old thread, I think started by BruceB, wherein he described making ingot moulds from angle iron.

Maybe 1 1/2" or 2" on a side and cut to length so the ingots are an inch or 2 shorter than the inside of an ammo can. The triangular ingots nest very well, and being just shorter than the storage container allows your finger to reach in at the end and pull 1 or 2 ingots out.

Ends welded on, on the outside so nothing for the ingots to "grip" when cooled.

[jackley]

I seem to recall someone saying teflon gives off toxic gas if you heat it hot enough to burn it off the pan.

Anything over 475 and teflon is nasty.

[Angus]

I did the same thing with my first ingots. The muffin pan isn't aluminum, it is TIN coated steel... The lead alloyed with the tin, making it impossible to get them out. I had to pop out each cub and peel the steel off the ingots. Now my ingot mold is a pile of driveway sand that I stick a 2x4 into to make rectangular impressions to sandcast in. No stick, it's beautiful.

[encoreman]

I can't believe you guys!! Not one has suggested making your own. I took some 11/2" angle iron about 6" long 6 is what I used. Welded a piece of flat bar to each end, note: I put the angle iron like this.vvvvvv This serves pretty good for a homemade ingot mold, I made 2 and put a 12" piece of 1/2" pipe for a handle. Each ingot weighs about 1 pound. Mac

[carpetman]

yea you have magnetic aluminum--rare stuff. Whatever you do get the muffin pans to work---ingot molds are way to costly.

[725]

I just made an angle alluminum ingot mould. Welded each end of a section of angle with a short section of angle. Gave it legs, if you will, on the end so it sits up off the table by a 1/4 inch or so. Stable. Pours a nice triangle rod of material. Cools fast. ........and best of all, it suits my budget!!

[Scrounger]

Congratulations, you just re-invented the wheel. Guys been doing that here since forever.

[carpetman]

Andy P---Yes teflon flu---you have to use your casting thermometer as your temperature will be too high for a regular thermometer. Doesn't matter if oral or anal thermometer---wont work on teflon flu. Know the difference in anal and oral thermometers---taste.

[swabbie]

actually,I thought that the sand casting idea showed remarkable outside the box cranial interaction:drinks:

[Razor]

Know the difference in anal and oral thermometers---taste.:veryconfu

LMAO

Razor
:castmine:

[Rustyleee]

I'm with Ricochet. I've been using the same cast iron corn stick moulds for 25 years.

[Dragoon]

I'm as frugal as the next guy but I get a great deal of satisfaction from seeing my ingots cast in nice uniform shapes and neatly stacked up.

I bought four Saeco ingot moulds and they are worth every penny.

I do have a cornbread pan that makes 8 wedges that I use for straight ww metal. The cavities don't really have enough draft and anything other that ww metal sticks to bad.

When I alloy a batch with tin I pour them in the Saeco moulds.

I saw a pan like this the other day at a flea market and thought it would work better than the typical corn stick pan. This one I saw they wanted $40 for.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Griswold-no-21-corn-bread-pan-Erie-Pa-961-USA-rare_W0QQitemZ200219779309QQihZ010QQcategoryZ976QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosti ng

[TAWILDCATT]

dragoon:I just sent message to first poster then I saw the date.I have a Griswald
and I payed couple bucks.Hardwear stores have muffin pans and corn stick pans in cast iron for about $6.00.
There should be a sticky for this subject.I must have read 25 posts on many sites.
I dont know about LODGE. they seem to be higher than the hardwear stores selling their products.:-P

[miestro_jerry]

I use the Lee ingot molds, they were on sale and I bought 4, I already have a Lyman and a couple of RCBS one. They work for me. Corn bread molds, well the price would have to be right before I would invest in those.

I have a Lodge dutch oven and the cast iron ladle, both are well worth the price.

Jerry

[seabreeze133]

I found the best mold is a cast iron device that is used to make corn bread sticks, or something made of cast iron. U can often pick them up at thrift stores for a couple of bucks. A variety of shapes can help if u cast more than one alloy. Corn bread sticks for WW; cast iron muffin mold for lead and so on. Might take a while to gather everything u need, but if u have a spouse that frequents the thrift stores, it would give her a goal.

:o)

Don

[carpetman]

Lets see we have the cost of PAM which would be ongoing. We have the cost of driving all over town to thrift stores and really dont know if the muffin pans we find will work or not---aluminum?Teflon? right taper? rusted? Non rusted? And then will they be the right size will the ingots go in the pot??? Certainly dont spend $15 for a cast iron ingot mold that we know will work. Just not creative and certainly shows some type of a warped mind to do something that foolish.

[spurrit]

Oh, yeah? I hit garage sales like crazy for a while, to pick up cast iron for swinging targets for my cowboy loads. Fist shot, light load, cast .45 Colt load shot a hole in a skillet.

[smilie=1: Dad and I got a laugh out of it. When he died, it was still sitting in his kitchen. I gave him his first handgun, a cheapo .22, then followed it with a .357 Blackhawk, and I handmade his gunbelt. Marvin Leroy Morgan was a pretty good grandad. He took me in to raise, let me call him "Dad", taught me quite a bit, and was the best friend I ever had.

I still have both of those guns, his saddle, and his horses, who have a home until they die.

[alamogunr]

If you have to buy new, Cabela's has Lodge cast iron pans on sale right now. I got mine on sale several years ago when we passed through Nebraska on our way to Yellowstone. Regardless, they are cheaper than RCBS, Lyman, or SAECO ingot molds. I got the regular round muffin pans. They have little fish, cactus, corn cob, etc.

[yodar]

I don't know where you went wrong, but I'd spray the next muffin pan with Franklin arsenal mold release maybe!

some tins are steel but I got fed up and bought a pair of cast Iron muffin pan and two iron cornbread stick molds and no sticking.

My unrefined alloy is in the muffins and the elongated cornbread mould for my ready to use ally and they stand on end neatly in the pot


yodar

[Ted]

My ingot molds are empty soda cans. I use a manual can opener to cut the top off then wash and dry them, then fill with molten/cleaned WW's.

Each one holds 7.5lbs or so. They stack and store well and the can can easily be pulled off with pliers when I need to use an ingot.

Ted

[Safeshot]

Old (yard sale) dirty, rusty, nasty - cast iron muffin pans work just fine, be sure to clean any "grease" out of them first. Even the cheap imported (new) cast iron muffin pans will work also. The little "corn bread sticks" cast iron pans are also an option. One individual I know uses stainless steel "egg poaching" inserts individually. It works for him, he handles them with a pair of channel lock pliers held upside down and sets them on a "dry" concrete block to cool. Wear welders gloves and eye protection, be careful, Safeshot

[Doc Highwall]

I sat here reading about some of the troubles some of you had and recall how mine were sticking and decided that this is supposed to be enjoyable not a exercise in frustration. I solved my problem, at wallmart I bought four 8" cast iron frying pans, these are for making 20+ lb ingots after I do my first melt from my 11qt dutch oven. Then for when I mix my alloy I bought four more cast iron pans made by lodge that make 8 ingots each that weigh 2.5lbs each and they fit in my Wage or LEE 20lb pot with no problem.

[Just Duke]

Swamprat, interesting. I've never used aluminum cup cake pans but the only SWAG I can come up with sounds like the aluminum was too thin and when the hot alloy filled the cup it stretched with the heat. When the alloy cooled off and shrank (lead shrinks when cooled) the aluminum just shrank with it so the ingot didn't come loose. This is just a SWAG for lack of thinking of anything else. You might try freezing them, that might shrink'em enough to get'em out.

Let us know the outcome, there are probably several folks that have had similair experiences.

Rick

Yep! that's what I was going to say. Might freeze them and throw them on concrete. Just an idea.

[RP]

i got some new pans and my ingots stuck so i smutted them and now they will work just fine they had the no stick coating on them my other plain jane alum no stick at all. One thing to look at is the taper of the pan some have angle wall all the way to the top some dont the ones that dont will hang on me just dont feel them to full.

[alamogunr]

Old (yard sale) dirty, rusty, nasty - cast iron muffin pans work just fine, be sure to clean any "grease" out of them first. Even the cheap imported (new) cast iron muffin pans will work also. The little "corn bread sticks" cast iron pans are also an option. One individual I know uses stainless steel "egg poaching" inserts individually. It works for him, he handles them with a pair of channel lock pliers held upside down and sets them on a "dry" concrete block to cool. Wear welders gloves and eye protection, be careful, Safeshot

Let those cast iron pans of any type get rusty. Nothing will stick. I have several different varieties of cast iron pans and the more rusty(I don't know if "rustier" is a word) the better.
John
W.TN

[Just Duke]

Let those cast iron pans of any type get rusty. Nothing will stick. I have several different varieties of cast iron pans and the more rusty(I don't know if "rustier" is a word) the better.
John
W.TN

Yep! :-D

[spurrit]

RUST: The original non-stick coating!

[skimmerhead]

first time i'v smelted lead was this week, i went to dollar store bought cheap muffin pan 12 holes teflon coated. then sprayed with frankford arsenal mold release let dry 5 minutes started pouring, so far got 84 ingots and they still fall out on their own have more to pour tomorrow should finish without having to spray again no teflon burns or anything just perfect. hope this help's Skimmerhead

[Blackhawk Convertable]

Here are a few tip and Ideas:


OK, a couple of notes about Teflon pans. I let them sit outside in the rain and weather before using. Just like the iron pans, the Teflon ones also need to get a "scummy" coating before using.

And yes, you need to watch the temp of your melt. Once the clips start to come to the surface, remove them and stir a tad. Then start filling your pans. If you are waiting for complete melt before you start removing the clips, you run the risk of the temp rising to 700°F and having Zinc contaminate your melt. The WW alloy will start melting at around 600°F. Stir and remove clips, Stir and Remove clips, etc.

BTW, I use saw dust for a flux and have no issues, nor the need to light stuff on fire to eliminate smoke. When I use my dipper for making ingots, I run the dip under the surface and then skim the top before drawing out the dipper.

[grumman581]

Now my ingot mold is a pile of driveway sand that I stick a 2x4 into to make rectangular impressions to sandcast in. No stick, it's beautiful.

I had wondered about possibly sand casting, but I hadn't seen anyone else mention it, so I had figured that there must be other problems with it. Does the sand stick to the ingots and get in your casting pot? Is there an issue with having to ensure that the sand isn't moist?

Sand casting of objects has been around for a really long time. I believe that it was the very first type of casting. I can see how it would be easy to make an cast pattern out of a 2x4 that would ensure that you had a consistent sand mold each time.

[spurrit]

I just figured I'd end up with a bunch of sand in my pot.

[RKJ]

I just started this journey myself and went with the cheap muffin tins from Walmart. The 1st ones I poured (WW and 3% Lead from the local mine) fell out like a charm, the 2nd time they all stuck. They broke out of the tray on me too. I got a cast iron triangle corn bread pan, it worked like a charm. I got a ear corn tray today. I also got a small brasing pot that should make about a 5-7 Lb ingot. I believe I'm hooked on this Casting stuff. Thanks Guys. :)

Oh, My avatar is my Grandson, he is Grandpa's buddy boy. I just had to brag on him.

[spurrit]

Kids are so damn cool at that age.....

[GT27]

Andy P---Yes teflon flu---you have to use your casting thermometer as your temperature will be too high for a regular thermometer. Doesn't matter if oral or anal thermometer---wont work on teflon flu. Know the difference in anal and oral thermometers---taste.

ROFLMAO...[smilie=l:

[grumman581]

I just figured I'd end up with a bunch of sand in my pot.

I'm out of wheel weights at the moment, otherwise, I would give sand casting a try. For sand casting of objects other than ingots, they use a different type of clay / sand mixture and it is packed fairly tight in order to get all the fine details of the positive mold. For just casting ingots, I don't see packing the sand that tight as being completely necessary. I suspect that the firmer the better, but nothing that a couple of whacks with a flat point shovel or a tamper wouldn't be able to do.

My smelting rig is not that large (cast iron dutch oven), but I usually don't start up my smelting unless I have at least a 5g bucket of wheel weights to work with. Anything less is not worth the trouble to get everything set up. And on top of that, I have to wait for the wind to be from the right direction (so my neighbors don't notice it and call the cops on me) and it also has to be a clear night with no chance of rain.

[grumman581]

Kids are so damn cool at that age.....

And then they grow up and you start wondering why post-natal abortions are not legal.... ;)

[noylj]

Teflon (polytetrafluoroethylene) is wonderful stuff, but not if heated about 500°F or so.
Aluminum, as I remember, has a greater coefficient of thermal expansion and it has locked the ingots in place. A slight heating will cause the aluminum to expand more than the ingots, and the ingots will drop out. You won't need to melt the ingots, just heat up the aluminum until the ingots drop out.
I would not use aluminum for this purpose.

[cuzinbruce]

If you are going to sand cast, I would think that any moisture at all would be a major issue.

[D Crockett]

I have about 30 angle moulds that I have made they are easy to make and even easyer to use fill them up with lead with out over filling them let the lead get hard flip them over with a pair of pliers out pops the ingot I have lee moulds I have them for my soft lead I have a bunch of the lyman saco 4 cavity moulds I don't use them any more I have to hit them sometimes to get the ingot out if any one want some of these angle moulds pm me I can make them up to 4 cavity D Crockett

[fiberoptik]

That's true. My wife burned up a Teflon pan in the kitchen once. We had to leave the house. I opened the doors and let it air out for a good while before we came back in. I was coughing terribly for days, with a lingering mild cough for a good while afterward. That was some nasty gas!

I have no sense of smell, lost in the Corps overseas. Wifey was roasting jalapeños on comal, wandered away & forgot them. The clouds of noxious teargas was a real nose opener! Even the cat abandoned me! Don't take much to burn teflon.




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[fiberoptik]

:veryconfu

LMAO

Razor
:castmine:

Yea, chocolate flavored!!! Actually have done that!


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[44magLeo]

Just read this whole thread. The Sand casting sounds like an easy way. The town barn is just up the street.Take a half sheet of plywood, 2x4's around edge fill with damp sand. put in wedges of 2x4 in for forms, tamp in place. Remove the forms, let dry. Cast away.Easy clean up, just pour the sand out. Very slick Idea.Have to try when I get the next batch of ww's saved up.Leo

[Walks]

I Just read this thread through for the 3rd time. I know that folks cast their own bullets to save money and/or shoot more.
I grew up at a time when the only way to get bullets for loading was to cast your own.
So forgive me if I don't understand the pennywise/poundfoolishness of many bullet casters.
Cast Iron ingot molds from bullet mold manufacturer's came out sometime in the 1950's. Before that old cast iron cupcake pans and other shapes of cast iron that could by used. I keep my cast iron ingot molds clean and oiled, I never have any "release" problems. I have some ingot molds from SAECO & OHAUS that may even be older than me. (64 in March) I use the different brands of ingot molds to pour/store different alloys. I even have some blank one's and a triangle/scone pan to store unknown range lead, which differs in hardness with every batch. I've been buying these branded ingot molds at swapmeets,gun shows & garage sales, for 50+yrs.
I guess what I'm trying to say is don't skimp on some thing that actually is an important aspect of our bullet
casting techniques. Cast Iron is safest and easiest to use. Please use it. The few extra bucks will make life easier. After the pie shapes from the scone pan can even be labeled with a marksalot.

[Grmps]

Just read this whole thread. The Sand casting sounds like an easy way. The town barn is just up the street.Take a half sheet of plywood, 2x4's around edge fill with damp sand. put in wedges of 2x4 in for forms, tamp in place. Remove the forms, let dry. Cast away.Easy clean up, just pour the sand out. Very slick Idea.Have to try when I get the next batch of ww's saved up.Leo

Sandcasting scares me, get a piece or two of sand stuck in the alloy and scrape up a set of dies -- no thankyou, I'll stick with the angle iron ones I make, cut a slight taper at the ends for easy drop out . Stack well, ship well and load easily into the pot
ingotshttps://i.imgur.com/w0PN2yf.jpg?1
storagehttps://i.imgur.com/3dyLIRP.jpg
moldshttps://i.imgur.com/UIUfNz3.jpg
stacked pre storagehttps://i.imgur.com/5erXBzy.jpg

[Edward429451]

I Just read this thread through for the 3rd time. I know that folks cast their own bullets to save money and/or shoot more.
I grew up at a time when the only way to get bullets for loading was to cast your own.
So forgive me if I don't understand the pennywise/poundfoolishness of many bullet casters.
Cast Iron ingot molds from bullet mold manufacturer's came out sometime in the 1950's. Before that old cast iron cupcake pans and other shapes of cast iron that could by used. I keep my cast iron ingot molds clean and oiled, I never have any "release" problems. I have some ingot molds from SAECO & OHAUS that may even be older than me. (64 in March) I use the different brands of ingot molds to pour/store different alloys. I even have some blank one's and a triangle/scone pan to store unknown range lead, which differs in hardness with every batch. I've been buying these branded ingot molds at swapmeets,gun shows & garage sales.
I guess what I'm trying to say is don't skimp on some thing that actually is an important aspect of our bullet
casting techniques. Cast Iron is safest and easiest to use. Please use it. The few extra bucks will make life easier. After the pie shapes from the scone pan can even be labeled with a marksalot.

I have been doing the same thing. Using different shapes for different alloys, and marking some with a magic marker until I got a punch set. I only have a couple CI ingot moulds but have used steel muffin pans with good success too. Steel might not last as long as cast iron but is ok for now. When mama wanted a new grill I got the old one for smelting. (I did learn the hard way to add extra support to the side burner, lol!)

Almost everyone has an electrical Multi-Meter nowadays. They have zillions of attachments for them too. I picked up a K Type thermocouple probe for it that plugs into mine and lets me know exactly what the temp of my casting lead is. When I started paying attention to temperature my boolits all got a lot more consistent. If anyone casts and is not measuring temperatures of the melt...you're sorta casting in the dark.

[Walks]

The side burner on my old or new gas grill took too long to melt and never got hot enough to suit me.

Having the use of a thermometer these past 25 yrs makes we wonder how did we survive in the "olden days" testing your melt by touching a rolled up sheet of newspaper to it to catch fire to test if it's hot enough to cast. Or the lead must be hot enough if the waxy stuff bursts into flame by its self. Now we have molds designed for a digital temp probe.
How did our Dad's do it ?

[mold maker]

Our GGran Dads did it over a campfire with damp wood. And we think we're tough.

[JSnover]

Our GGran Dads did it over a campfire with damp wood. And we think we're tough.

They probably would laugh at us for being so picky, too.

[justashooter]

i use aluminum muffin pans and flip ingots out less than a minute after pouring about 3/4"-1" thick ingots. gotta use a pot holder, though.-/

[Walks]

Does any one know the size/shape of the lead used by Buffalo Hunters. I've heard the term "bar lead" used to describe it. But what size/shape. I know about the bullet molds/loading tools they used. My Dad had an old SHARPS in .44-77, he used the bullet mold on the end of the loading to cast bullets for it. The caliber is so weird that I've always remembered it.

RUST IS THE ENEMY. I was raised by a US NAVY vet, who was raised by a US NAVY vet. I joined the US NAVY. They teach you: "RUST IS THE ENEMY".

RUST IS THE ENEMY. I set out the ingot molds that I'm going to use and pour in enough acetone to just cover the bottom of each ingot mold cavity. While casting bullets or melting down lead to create alloys, I tip the ingot molds to "swish" the acetone around to dissolve the oil. When ready to use the ingot molds I just pour off the acetone and stack the molds on the edge of the big burner when blending alloys or on the hotplate I use to preheat molds.
When finished I slather on some cooking oil for rust protection.
You do it your way, I'll do it mine.

[mold maker]

I remember buying a set of mini loaf pans mounted 6 (I think) in a wire frame. When I poured the lead in there was a funny creaking sound and the heat almost melted through the aluminum pans.
I guess the weight was more than the thin HOT aluminum could stand because it expanded enough to entrap the ingot. I wound up tearing the thin distorted aluminum off the ingots. Yesterday I found another identical loaf pan and bought it to remind me not to do that again.

[40-82 hiker]

I remember buying a set of mini loaf pans mounted 6 (I think) in a wire frame. When I poured the lead in there was a funny creaking sound and the heat almost melted through the aluminum pans.
I guess the weight was more than the thin HOT aluminum could stand because it expanded enough to entrap the ingot. I wound up tearing the thin distorted aluminum off the ingots. Yesterday I found another identical loaf pan and bought it to remind me not to do that again.

I had some COWW ingots stick in my first aluminum muffin pan as you describe. I think it is the coating on them for baking or ?? Once burned off they work just great. The melting point of Al is 1220*F, so though the heat can weaken Al, I doubt the problem was it was melting. That coating on muffin pans, loaf pans, etc. is a bear to deal with. I need to replace my work-worn muffin pans (sic, ingot molds), but don't feel like going through the process again. Tearing the muffin cups off is not my idea of fun!!!! Been there, done that!

Sending PM...

[justashooter]

I remember buying a set of mini loaf pans mounted 6 (I think) in a wire frame. When I poured the lead in there was a funny creaking sound and the heat almost melted through the aluminum pans.
I guess the weight was more than the thin HOT aluminum could stand because it expanded enough to entrap the ingot. I wound up tearing the thin distorted aluminum off the ingots. Yesterday I found another identical loaf pan and bought it to remind me not to do that again.


we should clarify that "aluminum muffin pan" is not in reference to the thin disposable one-use pans you buy for a buck in the grocery. go to a thrift shop and buy an aluminum pan of sheet aluminum that is about 1/16 or 3/32" thick and designed for paper cups. maybe you can't get new ones anymore. i use pans that my mother bought in 1970 or so, i suppose.

[mold maker]

we should clarify that "aluminum muffin pan" is not in reference to the thin disposable one-use pans you buy for a buck in the grocery. go to a thrift shop and buy an aluminum pan of sheet aluminum that is about 1/16 or 3/32" thick and designed for paper cups. maybe you can't get new ones anymore. i use pans that my mother bought in 1970 or so, i suppose.

These mini loaf pans were the heavier aluminum (not the thin disposable) and at the time I never gave thought to them not being capeable of handeling the heat and weight. They were just another mold size to add to my arsonal of ingot molds. The sound I heard was the aluminum expanding in contact with the hot lead as oposed to the non contacted area which didn't expand.
At any rate I won't be fooled again.

[Engineer1911]

How to get the ingot out of the aluminum muffin tin

After the muffin tin has cooled to your body temp, hold the offending tin in the palm of your hand, strike the ingot a sharp blow with a 16 to 26 ounce hammer in the center of the ingot. You are trying to drive the ingot into the muffin tin. The aluminum tin will stretch just a tiny bit and the ingot falls out when you turn it over. I had a 12 count muffin tin that had 3 cavities that stuck. Hitting the bottom of the cavity didn't work. One angry blow to the ingot and it fell right out ! !

End of the frustration.

[Rubino1988]

I learned this lesson do not use cheap tins the 1$ ones are junk and I had to hit them with a torch to get the lead out. Pay the extra 3$ and get a good one

[2011redrider]

I started with the cheap wall Mart tins and had to peel them out like a can of sardines!
Had a can of spray graphite from Lowe's, can said it was good to 80 degrees, sprayed the pans and the ingots would just drop out.

[Alferd Packer]

Aluminum gets soft before it melts down.
Thats the alloy which can sometimes have a melting point as low as lead.
Used in cheaper things like funnels, beverage cans and by China in making pots and pans for cooking exported to the US.
Quit using anything aluminum for melted lead. It can soften before it loses its shape and dump hot lead everywhere.
Seen it happen. Its the alloy that helps soft aluminum hold its shape . Cheap alloy is used to cheapen the manufacturing.
Who makes everything used in the US now days. China.
When an aluminum utensil melts , its the alloy that melts first.Then heavy lead melt makes it look like the dam burst.
For safety sake don't use it for hot lead.How many times you can do a thing and nothing happens. It only takes one time for something to go wrong and kill you or hurt you.

[William Yanda]

Sounds like overheated lead to me. I use Al muffin pans-the 12 bangers. To hasten cooling I set them on a damp towel.

[uscra112]

I'm just shaking my head in amusement. Obviously there's still some as doesn't know that aluminum containers are a no-no when dealing with hot lead. This has been obvious since aluminum became cheap enough to make pans out of.

"Some just have to pee on the electric fence to find out for themselves"
.................................................. .....................................anonymous

[Winger Ed.]

Black oil-seasoned cast iron corn stick moulds have worked very well.

I see those in thrift stores pretty cheap. I've heard they work well.

[gkainz]

I tried plated steel muffin pans. Ended up with ingots soldered to the plated steel firmly, and the pan was ruined. Black oil-seasoned cast iron corn stick moulds have worked very well.

Hope that’s true, because the 4 I have won’t release cornbread no matter what I do to them. Seasoned many times, even floating the cornbread in butter or oil or lard and the dang things stick. Maybe they need to go to the lead pile. :)

[Idz]

The cast aluminum Lee ingot molds are inexpensive and work well. We recycle our range scrap and the molds have cast 5000 lbs of ingots so far. Best trick I learned is to pour the ingot, then set the mold on a wet towel to cool it and then dump the lead as soon as it sets. If you don't cool them the molds get so hot in production the wood handles begin smoking.

[lightman]

I see those in thrift stores pretty cheap. I've heard they work well.

They work well enough and fit most casting pots but they really don't stack that well. If you can live with that they make an ok ingot.

[Gaseous Maximus]

I have been using some stainless steel muffin pans that my wife bought new and didn't like. There are 6 muffins to a pan and I have 4 pans. They work really well. I don't know what she paid for them, and rather expect that I don't want to know.

[ironhat]

I have a set of older Lyman molds and the N is backwards. I'm just sayin'...

[Doubles Shooter]

I needed an ingot mold for a bunch of scrap lead pipe. I grabbed my wife's mini muffin pan. It is a fairly heavy steel construction with a no stick coating that looks like new after over 150 pounds of melted lead went through it. I like it because the 1/2 pound ingots are perfect for my 10 pound dripolator.
254625254626

[Hickory]

I needed an ingot mold for a bunch of scrap lead pipe. I grabbed my wife's mini muffin pan. It is a fairly heavy steel construction with a no stick coating that looks like new after over 150 pounds of melted lead went through it. I like it because the 1/2 pound ingots are perfect for my 10 pound dripolator.
254625254626

You own this muffin pan now, don't take back to the kitchen to be used for cooking. Lead poisoning could result.

[Doubles Shooter]

You own this muffin pan now, don't take back to the kitchen to be used for cooking. Lead poisoning could result.
Yes that I'm aware of. Already replaced it for her.

[Minerat]

I have used dollar store coated steal pans, lyman steel moulds and now the Redneck gold/cast boolits aluminum molds that Lakehouse now sells. A little more expensive then Dollar store pans but worth it. It depends on what size I'm looking for.

Heres the Lighthouse link.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?392510-2-5-Lb-Aluminum-Ingot-molds-Redneck-Gold-amp-Cast-Boolits-are-now-in-stock!

Just to be clear, I don't have an interest in Lighthouse's venture. It's just a good product offered by a Cast Boolit member.

[GregLaROCHE]

You forgot to put in the paper muffin liners to keep them form sticking! Just kidding, of course. I’m a big fan of molds made from angle iron. If you or a friend can weld, they are cheap and work well. They don’t need to be thick thinner stock cools faster. Mine usually come out a little over two pounds.

I like the the triangle shape. You can add them to a cold pot vertically and they fit efficiently into the circle of the pot. When you add to molten lead, they slip in instead a big plop.

[Minerat]

I just looked at this threads start date, you do all realize we are responding to a 2007 thread right.:happy dance:

Oh well we did impart some good information for future member searching this topic. LOL

To quote Bill and Ted "Party on Dudes."

[Phlier]

I just looked at this threads start date, you do all realize we are responding to a 2007 thread right.:happy dance:

Oh well we did impart some good information for future member searching this topic. LOL

To quote Bill and Ted "Party on Dudes."
And in keeping with this spirit, I'll add...

I'm using some cast iron muffin pans that I got from Sportsman's Warehouse. The ingots don't have much taper to them, so they stack nicely. They also are a perfect diameter to fit the Lee 20 pound pot nicely.

I've had them for years now, but noticed that our local Sportsman's still carried them as of last week.

Downside: They're pricey. Like thirty bucks each.

[kevin c]

Cast iron skillets, pans for scones, muffins and corn bread (ear of corn version) show up at GW on occasion, often at reasonable prices for such durable items. Better if they're rusty: lower price, better mold release. Of course, if they're TOO rusty sometimes to price jumps because now they're "antiques" or "heirlooms".

[JMN]

Now I'm confused. Much of my smelting and casting stuff comes from the local thrift store. My ingot mold is one of those things you poach eggs in. It's aluminum but the ingots never stick.

[Springfield]

That's because it is rounded so the ingots can't get stuck, going by the pans I have seen.

[technojock]

The first time I smelted wheel weights (35+ years ago,) I started by going to the thrift store for a stainless 4 quart pot to melt them in and a couple aluminum 6 pot muffin pans. The pans were not coated and dirt cheap and while they never failed to dump the ingot, it took too long for them too cool enough not to break up when dumped. I had recalled some one once saying they use inverted pop or beer cans to make ingots and it really worked but I had to dip them in a bucket of water to get them to release (after a few minutes.) The best part about using the bottoms of cans is the cans are free and afterwards you can recycle them. I still have a few of the pop can ingots since they were the ones I added some Linotype to the alloy.

I use a Lee ingot mold these days and I wish they'd make one that cast 6 1/2 pound ingots rather than 2 1-pound and 2 1/2-pound ones... I like using the 1/2 pound ingots to top up the pot when I'm casting.

Tony

[Shanghai Jack]

Teflon melts at almost exactly the melting point of lead