Red Dot in the 30-30.

[Catshooter]

Very nice. Load I tried today was Lyman 3118 over five grains with a CCI large pistol primer. I forgot to chronograph 'em! Dang, sorry. No filler.

I bet that little boolit was doing about 900 feet. It was too cold & too windy to fire for group. I just shot at stuff sitting in the burn pit. It shot very well. It also shot well at about 40 yards. Shot to the same point of aim as my 31141 loads (full loads) at five yards and forty. Primers were of course rounded, zero pressure signs. Fired cases just fall into the chamber.

I was using my H&R single shot, 22 inch barrel. What a sweet load. :)


Cat

[curiousgeorge]

I use the same boolit in my old H&R .30-30, but with 5.0 grs of Bullseye. Same results as yours. Just a lot of fun to sit around and 'plink' with these. Just can't seem to keep enough of them cast!

Steve

[Catshooter]

Ain't that the truth!


Cat

[HighHook]

Very addicting... Especially for the young'ins. Reddot, bullseye or 700x for me... They all work great

[starmac]

May be a dumb question, but why pistol primers?

[William Yanda]

a. Because I can.
b. For a gentler ignition of a "fast" powder
c. 'Cause its what I had.
d. Other
e. all of the above
Bill

[Catshooter]

All of what William said, plus it's also an early warning pressure system. Pistol primers aren't as tough as rifle, they show pressure much earlier.


Cat

[starmac]

OK more dumb questions. I really am trying to learn here. lol
If the primers are softer and you use them for a warning indicator, wouldn't it be a false indicator?

How safe are the softer pistol primers in a tube fed rifle?

I will have to do some studying on the gentler ignition of a soft powder. Would that give you lower velocity that can't be achieved by reducing powder.

I do understand the, because I can, and also The cause it's what I had. lol

[Catshooter]

starmac,

They ain't dumb questions yet. :)

It would be a false indicator if I was using full rifle pressure loads; they'd yell at me too early. But with a load that I in no way expect to achive rifle pressures, if I flatten a pistol primer I know something is terribly amiss. But I'll get that indicator well before things are getting dangerous for the rifle itself.

An example. I wanted to work up a load for a 20 gauge rifle in completley uncharted territory. Since the weapon system was all rifle and the only thing about it "shotgun" was the chambering, I started with pistol primers since I knew they would tell me if I was getting close to 45,000 which was my self-imposed limit. The load I stopped with (recoil!) still wouldn't round a pistol primer so I knew I was still well into safe territory. Make sense?

Pistol primers are used in tube fed rifles everywhere in pistol caliber carbines/rifles. Mine are in 45 Colt. :)

Yes, that is one point of using a fast, easily ignited pistol powder in a rifle for reduced loads. Lower velocities than you can get safely with reducing the normal rifle powder. Like in my 30-30s, for full loads I use AA 2230. Now these are 29.5 grains under a 182 grain Lyman 31141. In the Red Dot loads, I'm using the 120 grain 3118 and I want waaaaaaay slower speeds.

Could I reduce the AA 2250 and duplicate the Red Dot loads? Maybe. But I know from other experience that when the pressure gets too low for whatever powder, it starts suffering from poor ignition. It can get to the "no ignition" point, actually.

There's also the safety issues of reducing rifle powder loadings down too far. Some feel that you can get a SEE event. Some say you can ring your chamber. I have no experience in these two areas, luckily. But they don't sound fun.

I know from my work and the work of others that I trust that way reduced pistol powder loads in rifle cartridges are quite safe, and why they are. They flat work. I love 'em.

This help any?


Cat

[starmac]

It is slowly sinking in. lol

[tomme boy]

The thickness of a pistol primer is the same on a LP as a LR primer. Small pistol are thinner than small rifle. Also the LP are a little shorter.

[Catshooter]

tomme boy are you trying to say that the cup of a large pistol primer is thinner than the cup of a large rifle primer? Dead on. The overall height is different, the pistol being shorter a bit. I've read that they're .004 shorter but I've not measured any.

The same is true small pistol to small rifle as far as cup thickness goes. Small pistol & rifle are supposed to be the same overal height though.

There are other differences of course. Primers can get quite technical just like most things.

In my experience, primers are the most difficult component for the reloader manufactuers to figure out how to handle in their tools.


Cat

[tomme boy]

I have seen a few different charts that showed the thickness of the different primers. All of them showed that the thickness for LP is the same as LR. SP is thinner than SR.

[Hal]

Also Hecueles Green Dot is a great reduced load powder. Have shot and seen excellent groups at 100yards. 223,30-30, 32-20, etc

[bones37]

I too have used Green Dot with excellent results.
Also Hecueles Green Dot is a great reduced load powder. Have shot and seen excellent groups at 100yards. 223,30-30, 32-20, etc

[NickSS]

I have used the 311o8 bullet in a 30-30 for years as a small game hunting bullet as well as for plinking. I generally loaded that bullet sized to 311 over 6 gr of Red Dot powder and got really excellent accuracy out to 100 yards. It fact in several rifles it shoots around a 2 inch group at 100 yards.

[Catshooter]

I believe it Nick. Mine had no trouble knocking over two steel pigs at 100 yards. I had to aim a foot over their backs, but they hit.


Cat

[shtur]

Would a CCI magnum pistol primer work with the reduced loads?

[Catshooter]

Sure, it'll just be hotter by a bit. Five grains of Red Dot is such a low pressure that a mag primer couldn't make enough difference to matter.

Now if it'll be accurate, well, only your rifle can tell you that.


Cat