AR 15's Good Lord

[Tazman1602]

Fella's,

I am a small time operator with a small shop in Northern Michigan. In the last two days I have taken orders for more rifles than I have sold all year ----- and they are ALL AR-15's. My main supplier, Stag Arms, is running a two month delay.

I have never seen people in such a gun buying panic even in the Kommander Klinton days. I only wish I was a scalper. I have a policy of only charging 10% over my cost for every rifle I sell and will not change that and word seems to be spreading.

Just wanted you to know from a small time dealer that the panic buying is CRAZY. Please don't contact me about orders from this post as I am not currently a vendor sponsor and do not want to violate forum rules, I love it here, just wanted to keep you informed.

Maybe this should go in the political forum? Mods if you think it needs to be moved or deleted please do so, I am not intentionally breaking any rules, just thought the people ought to know what's happening in the real world although most of you here already do I'm sure...............

Art

[Dschuttig]

I don't think that I would worry to much if I was in a deep red state, but for those of us in the northeast I would worry. By the time any federal ban comes around it will face a steep uphill climb, but not so much on the state level.

[Combat Diver]

Guns shops here in Fayetteville NC (outside Ft Bragg) has been seening heavy business this week too.


CD

[Del-Ray]

I work at a gunshot in southeast MI.

We had 12 AR's in stock Friday. All of them are gone today.
We had about 70 Pmags Friday. GONE.
223-5.56 ammo? Good luck.

Stripped lowers? Yeah.....

[Jailer]

I'm glad I got all I needed a while back. Stocked up on mags before the election just in case. I'm glad I did.

[PS Paul]

Yup. we've sold over thirty guns today alone and over 50 tactical rifles just since friday's event. Pretty crazy. I cannot buy another AR-type rifle from ANY distributor or manufacturer. Gonna get REAL slim in the next few weeks, guaranteed.

[Jack Stanley]

Maybe nows the time to get a deal on a "sporting" type rifle huh?

Jack

[randyrat]

I was just going buy a AR15 lower last week got busy and had to wait. Then this awful thing happened so I thought I better buy one today. Turns out my friendly gun shop sold them all today. Day late again. I am so mad I could spit and knock over an anvil.

[PS Paul]

After posting above, I went into the gun room and stood in one spot for 15 minutes. Started with 25 AR's this morning, now one left. Soon to be gone...... Well, at least the answer will be the same for everyone who asks, "Can't get 'em. Don't know when we can get more".

[shotman4]

Last week you could fine ars for 850 today they are 1700 to 2500 . Guy on guns america had some but best get them now
they cant ban them BUT they can TAX them and that is what going to happen . LOOK for 1500-2000 dollar tax and would bet 200 on mags he can do it by ex privilege

[bruce drake]

My local gunshop is usually closed on Mondays and Tuesday so I'm hoping the lower I saw on Saturday is still there.

[x101airborne]

I bought 5 stripped high end lowers a couple weeks ago from a member here. THANK GOD I DID. The gun shops around here have people standing on top of each other to get high cap weapons. AK's, AR's, etc.
I went to get a shell holder on Tuesday (yesterday). The owner told me he sold 24 AR's that day BEFORE NOON!!

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I saw a story on panic gun buying here in the Goldon state on tv last night. A women in a local gun shop said that pistols were being sold even before they got them. The lady also said that people were calling and asking if they could put in an order for a pistol over the phone. A clerk said pistols were being sold whithin fifteen minutes of receiving them.

[Ecramer]

I finished building an AR about a month ago. I'm hoping I can by an M1A before any new laws kick in. I ordered an M-14 magazine yesterday, just so I can have a "full size" one in the event of new laws.

[koehn,jim]

Shotman4 yes they can ban future sales of assault weapons, if enough congressman and senators cave in they can and will ban future sales.

[shotman4]

they may stop future the sales, but that may take a while. But will bet its the tax that will put a halt to them fast. He can do that overnight
Cabellas had a very large order for bushmasters and In the wheeling store they had people buying 5 at a time . 30 rd mags were limit of 10 and had to take a number to get waited on .
What ever happens is not going to be good . thats a fact

[Stephen Cohen]

Yes and the media over here is having a field day reporting the sales, I say power too you. I cant believe the amount of ignorant who see the gun as the problem, I have never heard of a gun killing anyone without a person behind it, but Im preaching to the converted I guess.

[Tazman1602]

Yup...and there's Scott Smelly reporting an AR15, the kind of weapon used in the Newtown attack....which was in the trunk of the car the whole time, was used in the attack.

Shut up, buck up, and Ruck up boys.......

Total BULL

Art

[Jim]

..... But will bet its the tax that will put a halt to them fast. He can do that overnight .....

I may be very confused, but as I understand it tax hikes have to go through the House and the Senate.

[HATCH]

This is what can happen.

BATFE declares AW as title II firearms.
Other guns have been reclassified as title II.
This wouldn't take a vote from congress. All it would take is a phone call.
They would have a amnesty for people to register their current AWs.
New AW would require a $200 tax and transfers would be $200 too.
You know i could almost live with that

[MUSTANG]

I may be very confused, but as I understand it tax hikes have to go through the House and the Senate.


Congress many decades ago began to exceed and abrogate it's Constitutional duties, mainly by creating and empowering Agencies to create and implement regulations, which Congress maintains are not laws, simply means of enforcing the overarching law Congress approved to create the Agency.

We SUBJECTS of the Washington DC Realm, must not quibble that you can be fined or imprisoned for failing to live within these "Regulations". These Agencies are empowered to "Levy Fees", with no further Congressional oversight, except when too many RUBES back in the Home District raise a stink.

Stand by for "FEES" that will make $200.00 registration and transfer fees look like soda change. This is what Uncle "O" means when he says he will look to investigate what actions he can take within his current authority

Once again, no where in the enumerated Constitutional Powers of the Presidency are these proposed powers (or ones being used today) cited to be within the Presidents Constitutionally granted powers found in Article II either. There is no hope from the Court systems, for they too have exceeded their Constitutional Authority, and will rule however they please with no shame, twisting and turning the Constitution through "Judicial Interpretation" and by the use of "Settled Case Law", which just like the xerox of a xerox of a xerox becomes incomprehensible when compared to the original (Constitution in this case).



Mustang

A Constitutional Conservative

[John Boy]

Hatch, Title II revision is very plausible and so is more States banning Title II firearms. But the only thing this will do is improve the capability of tracing ownership - after the fact.. It's the whacko's that have to be culled out!

Then what's next after the AR's with the 30 round clips in the hands of a whacko are culled out?
A 12ga pump or semi auto - an extended magazine tube loaded with 00 buckshot?
56298

I don't have a good answer to eliminate these demised individuals but I know this parable is applicable

If the frog had a gun strapped to his a**, even the snakes wouldn't f*** with him

[Love Life]

There is a DPMS AR listed in the local sales paper. It is in Nevada if anybody is interested I can PM you the number.

[AricTheRed]

I was in a shop in Northern California Wed afternoon and a few local LEO's were making purchases of fully assembled ar-15's. when I commented "You know it is bad when LEO's are buying as John Q Public you know things are bad". These fellas were not waiting of letters from there dept to buy actual "Assault Weapons" they were paying for bullet-button equipped, 10 day wait regular olde I can get'em in Kalifornia long guns.

[HATCH]

I just picked up a AR receiver yesterday for $107 shipped.
Its a Del-tron.
Never heard of them before but my buddy swears by them.
I am afraid that the days of cheap AR parts are long gone.

[HATCH]

Hatch, Title II revision is very plausible and so is more States banning Title II firearms. But the only thing this will do is improve the capability of tracing ownership - after the fact..


States can't ban Title II if they are already allowed.
I think they will do increased taxes on ammunition and the Title II shuffle.

[MtGun44]

Delton is good quality, I have used a number of their barrels and parts, all work
well. IMO, no laws will be passed, and I doubt much in the way of regulations
will change. Sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Bill

[Ed in North Texas]

Yup...and there's Scott Smelly reporting an AR15, the kind of weapon used in the Newtown attack....which was in the trunk of the car the whole time, was used in the attack.

Shut up, buck up, and Ruck up boys.......

Total BULL

Art

Surely we aren't surprised. The Klinton so-called Assault Weapon Ban was the response to - a huge truck bomb.

Lanza didn't use a rifle. The so-called Assault Weapons (and standard capacity magazine) ban passed in 1993 in CT did absolutely nothing (of course it wouldn't have, the modern sporting rifle was in the trunk of his car, and wasn't on the "list" anyway). He tried purchase, but was turned down because he was only 20.

All those facts mean nothing. "The people" (read activists) DEMAND something be done. The low information voters don't care what is done, just do something. As a neighbor I had used to say "I guess I'll go do something, even if its wrong." That is how the Congress usually works, show the people you are doing something (and it usually turns out to be wrong).

Ed

[MUSTANG]

Surely we aren't surprised. The Klinton so-called Assault Weapon Ban was the response to - a huge truck bomb.

Lanza didn't use a rifle. The so-called Assault Weapons (and standard capacity magazine) ban passed in 1993 in CT did absolutely nothing (of course it wouldn't have, the modern sporting rifle was in the trunk of his car, and wasn't on the "list" anyway). He tried purchase, but was turned down because he was only 20.

All those facts mean nothing. "The people" (read activists) DEMAND something be done. The low information voters don't care what is done, just do something. As a neighbor I had used to say "I guess I'll go do something, even if its wrong." That is how the Congress usually works, show the people you are doing something (and it usually turns out to be wrong).

Ed


Ed:

You are correct "The low information voters don't care what is done, just do something". As an example; we live in the country & my neighbor is a doctor who has derided me for over a decade for being a Gun Owner. Of course last year at 2:00AM when she heard someone wondering around her property did she call the police? No, she called me and my wife asking me to check it out, and bring a gun. I went, my wife called the police, and I found nothing, except possibly some kids from across the river at the youth retreat. Of course our Dr. Lady neighbor once again thinks my ability to own firearms is a travesty.

Logic does not reign in the US. Only unbridled socialism and childish visions.

Mustang

[Jim]

Ed:

You are correct ..... As an example; we live in the country & my neighbor is a doctor who has derided me for over a decade for being a Gun Owner. Of course last year at 2:00AM when she heard someone wondering around her property did she call the police? No, she called me and my wife asking me to check it out, and bring a gun..... Mustang

I would have told her "You need to call the Sheriff's Office. I can't do that."

[2wheelDuke]

Ed:

You are correct "The low information voters don't care what is done, just do something". As an example; we live in the country & my neighbor is a doctor who has derided me for over a decade for being a Gun Owner. Of course last year at 2:00AM when she heard someone wondering around her property did she call the police? No, she called me and my wife asking me to check it out, and bring a gun. I went, my wife called the police, and I found nothing, except possibly some kids from across the river at the youth retreat. Of course our Dr. Lady neighbor once again thinks my ability to own firearms is a travesty.

Logic does not reign in the US. Only unbridled socialism and childish visions.

Mustang

I'd advise against ever doing that again. Even if you did shoot somebody that intended to rape her to death then keep parts of her body as a trophy, it'd be you on the hot seat with the state attorney's office, and it'd be you that got to endure a civil suit from the bad guy's family. All the while, your gun sits in an evidence locker, probably without the luxury do any oil ad no guarantee of climate control.

That's alot on the line for somebody that doesn't believe you should have that gun in the first place.

[MUSTANG]

I'd advise against ever doing that again. Even if you did shoot somebody that intended to rape her to death then keep parts of her body as a trophy, it'd be you on the hot seat with the state attorney's office, and it'd be you that got to endure a civil suit from the bad guy's family. All the while, your gun sits in an evidence locker, probably without the luxury do any oil ad no guarantee of climate control.

That's alot on the line for somebody that doesn't believe you should have that gun in the first place.


Your observations and comments reflect an appreciation of the realities of legal risk, but each of us makes their own choices and must live with the outcomes (at least that is supposed to be the case in a Free Republic). I am a hopeless optimist, and believe that over time reality will rule, and civility will return to society.

Each of us has a responsibility of behavior to our fellow man, I believe that is not only a responsibility of civility, but also a responsibility of community duty. Being a neanderthal in the minds of some, it is in my make up that defense of those who are vulnerable is a necessity - not a choice. I lived by the following Credo long before it was popularized in film, and continue to do so, and will do so to the end of my days:



I won’t be wronged, I won’t be insulted and I won’t be laid a hand on. I don’t do these things to other people and I require the same from them. John Bernard Books, 1901

I have on four occasions in the last 37 years experienced situations where criminal aggression with no ability to retreat caused me to openly display with the intent to use a firearm (each outside of my military service); each time I did not fire a shot, but the offender (in one case 13 total offenders) decided that a cessation of the intended violence and a rapid retreat and departure was the best course of action.

The possession, carrying, and use of a firearm carries an inherent duty of responsibility. If one chooses not to accept the responsibility, then one should also totally avoid the tool.


Mustang

[Tazman1602]

I'd advise against ever doing that again. Even if you did shoot somebody that intended to rape her to death then keep parts of her body as a trophy, it'd be you on the hot seat with the state attorney's office, and it'd be you that got to endure a civil suit from the bad guy's family. All the while, your gun sits in an evidence locker, probably without the luxury do any oil ad no guarantee of climate control.

That's alot on the line for somebody that doesn't believe you should have that gun in the first place.

You know, I do understand that statement, but that being said it will be a cold day in hell before I sit back and let a woman get hurt if I am able to do something to stop it. I feel it is not only the right thing to do, but that I have a duty to protect those that are weaker in heart, mind, and body than I am.

Would I get prosecuted, jailed, sodomized in prison? Probably so. There are still some things I am willing to go to jail for and protecting women, children, little dogs, etc happen to be some of them.

....................with a neighbor like that though, I think I'd wait until I heard at least a few screams before I intervened...................................

Art

[Jim]

.....with a neighbor like that though, I think I'd wait until I heard at least a few screams before I intervened.....Art

That I will agree with. If it's obvious that physical harm is eminant, no, I wouldn't ignore her plea for help. But I wouldn't set a precident by responding to her call every time she heard a bump. Especially to somebody that chastises me for owning firearms.

[Tazman1602]

Yeah it's tough Jim. I have a neighbor who doesn't like my shooting and complains all the time but my bases are covered there and I can shoot anytime on my property I wish and have told them so but I still wouldn't let any harm come to them if I was able...........

If I could just be more of a jerk I'd be rich by now...............I'm still selling AR's and stuff at my normal prices when everyone else is scalping the hell out of the public. Stag Arms now has a 4-6 month backlog of orders for my guys......................and they just keep on a coming because I refuse to budge on what I charge................I had a guy offer me $2500 for one of my personal AR's last week, people are just crazy.

Don't suppose you caught the gunbroker (I think....) auction of 10 magpul Pmags that some moron paid $800 for? Last dozen I bought was something like $11.50 per mag..........just stupid.

Art

[JHeath]

Since the court decisions in _Heller_, _MacDonald_, it's not clear to me that Congress could tax any/all firearms into prohibition, or that ATF could arbitrarily re-classify any given gun/configuration into prohibitive taxation. I do think 10+ round mags, black guns, etc. will be on the table aka the chopping block when it reaches court in a couple of years.

[Edubya]

Ban on AR

There is a petition against any ban on assault riffles @ https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/stop-any-legislation-will-ban-assualt-weapons-semi-automatic-rifles-or-handguns-and-high-capacity/bjlkvNSf

EW

[perotter]

Since the court decisions in _Heller_, _MacDonald_, it's not clear to me that Congress could tax any/all firearms into prohibition, or that ATF could arbitrarily re-classify any given gun/configuration into prohibitive taxation. I do think 10+ round mags, black guns, etc. will be on the table aka the chopping block when it reaches court in a couple of years.

In Heller several times reverenced "common use" and the government can only regulate the commercial sale and commercial manufacture of guns. There were over 24 million magazines that held over 10 rounds in the US when the 1994 ban went into effect. I have no idea how many there are now. I could only guess at the number of black guns in use today, but millions of them.

[Oreo]

Heller held that "weapons in common use" are protected as core to the right. Congress may pass all sorts of **** but I think the AR is probably the most common of all guns second maybe to the GLOCK pistol. So to that end, they aren't confiscating anything.

Now, on a state level some of us could be in a very difficult situation while legal challenges to bad legislation percolates.

[MUSTANG]

Since the court decisions in _Heller_, _MacDonald_, it's not clear to me that Congress could tax any/all firearms into prohibition, or that ATF could arbitrarily re-classify any given gun/configuration into prohibitive taxation. I do think 10+ round mags, black guns, etc. will be on the table aka the chopping block when it reaches court in a couple of years.


Sure;

Remember Chief Justice Roberts and the Obama Care ruling? He basically wrote in the Majority Finding that the Federal Governments Taxing Power is unrestricted and they can Tax anything they want, or stick their nose anywhere they want to as long as they call it a Tax.

Mustang

[gwozdz]

They will probably start to tax ammo and guns like they did to cigarettes. Just one excuse to get more money ,but not a solution to the real problem with violence in the country.

[frkelly74]

Except that registration is the precursor to confiscation.

I was responding to the post about almost being able to live with registration and a tax stamp.

[spuddicus]

Those who speculated are now reaping the rewards of such preparation, as in One can trade a stripped lower that they paid $100 for on the 13th for a brand new Aimpoint PRO optic for their weapons already in their posession.

It's interesting seeing what people are willing to pay for these things now (especially the ones who thought $6 used GI mags were expensive).

[Tazman1602]

This is going to cost me 3% on every order I've got I'm afraid. Unflipping believable. I need a drink.

Art



Right from the Stag Arms website:

Stag Arms is #1 in delivery in the AR industry.

Lead times current as of 12/20/12 and are the best estimates for new orders placed today.


At this time we are unable to give order status information for orders already placed with us. We are working three shifts seven days a week to ship orders as fast as possible.

Up to 6 weeks:
Most small orders for parts and accessories except as noted below


Estimated 12 months:
All rifle, upper half, lower half, and lower receiver orders.

Indefinite(We will ship these orders as soon as possible but don't currently have a lead time):
All right hand bolt carriers
A3 left hand upper receivers
Bulk parts orders(more than 10 of an individual part for most parts)


Please be patient as we do our best to get your orders out as quickly as we can.

[xacex]

New frontier Armory had some listed. 89$ for a poly lower. I have a couple, and ordered more for later. They work just fine, but i still like my alloy. They tried them with a 450 Bushmaster, but I wont be putting on the Beo upper, nope just for the pistols. Nice and light!

[Moonie]

New frontier Armory had some listed. 89$ for a poly lower. I have a couple, and ordered more for later. They work just fine, but i still like my alloy. They tried them with a 450 Bushmaster, but I wont be putting on the Beo upper, nope just for the pistols. Nice and light!

Not in stock they don't, been looking at them for awhile, haven't had any in stock in months.

[hiram1]

Tax tax tax and more tax .how much can we stand.the tea needs to get wet one more time.

[xacex]

Not in stock they don't, been looking at them for awhile, haven't had any in stock in months.

Sorry Moonie,

They had them listed that day saying they were in stock, but I went back yesterday and they were gone. Got my shipping notice that the ones I ordered are on the way to my ffl. Don't really need more, but if I find anything at a somewhat normal price I am snagging it.

[Moonie]

Sorry Moonie,

They had them listed that day saying they were in stock, but I went back yesterday and they were gone. Got my shipping notice that the ones I ordered are on the way to my ffl. Don't really need more, but if I find anything at a somewhat normal price I am snagging it.

At least someone got some, they also now have new pricing, reflecting the crazyness that everyone else is displaying.

[Hang Fire]

Any small or home machine shop with a desktop and 4 axis CNC mill capability can turn out lowers, uppers, and parts for them all day long.

And that is precisely what criminal enterprises will be doing. If the ATF and LEOs thought they have problems trying to curtail illegal drugs, they haven't seen a thing if they do the gun ban thingy.

I know for a fact that even the little cheap Chinese mini mills and lathes with old school man operated machines are capable of turning out very precise small parts.

[JIMinPHX]

I have never heard of a gun killing anyone without a person behind it,

except in this parody - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpgL5kuBpMA