The Marlin 450 Cartridge Questioner

[Just Duke]

I really don't know much about this cartridge but what I do know it is some what similar to the .458 Winchester Magnum. Which I have one I'm stuck with. It was purchased for a safari and a move to Northern Montana which we canceled in lieu of Barbie wanting a farm in the midwest to raise cow on.
So here's the question, Is there much difference between a 450 and a 458 both loaded with a 400 or 500 grainer for midwest Whitetail Deer?
I feel like an idiot shooting Whitetails with a 458 Winchester Magnum.
And before anyone asks I tried for 3 months now to sell it. I'm just keeping it.

[rexherring]

The 450 Marlin is really more like a hot .45-70 than a .458. My Brother-in-law has one in the Browning BLR.

[jh45gun]

Just load it down to the milder 45/70 loads and enjoy it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

.450 Marlin is very close to the .458x2 American wild cat which was simply a .458WM case shortened to 2" .

The .450 Marlin was conceived to be a hot .45-70 and it was given the belt so it couldn't be used in .45-70 rifles of older vintage which may not be able to withstand the pressure. That doesn't mean it can't be loaded down to earlier.45-70 ballistics.

In lieu of the Marlin and Winchester .45-70 rifles of today and their abilities to swallow very hot loads the .450Marlin has not got any advantage IMO, especially when you can buy .45-70 specialty loads from Garrett and Buffalo Bore which are approaching .458 ballistics.

The .450 does come with "Lever Revolution" bullets from Hornaday which is of some advantage, however they load them in .45-70 as well.

Randy

[pietro]

I really don't know much about this cartridge but what I do know it is some what similar to the .458 Winchester Magnum. Which I have one I'm stuck with. It was purchased for a safari and a move to Northern Montana which we canceled in lieu of Barbie wanting a farm in the midwest to raise cow on.
So here's the question, Is there much difference between a 450 and a 458 both loaded with a 400 or 500 grainer for midwest Whitetail Deer?
I feel like an idiot shooting Whitetails with a 458 Winchester Magnum.
And before anyone asks I tried for 3 months now to sell it. I'm just keeping it.

Save yourself a LOT of trouble, and just handload some reduced loads for your .458

400 grain Speer Flat-SP bullet, 26.0 grains of SR 4759 powder, CCI 250 primer, Winchester case. COL 3.125". MV 1262 fps in 24" barrel. (Based on the Speer Reloading Manual No. 13.)

385 grain Lyman #457124 cast lead bullet, 18.0 grains of Unique powder, WLR primer, Winchester case. COL 3.012". MV 1315 fps in 24" barrel. (Based on the Lyman 47th Reloading Handbook.)

.

[CLAYPOOL]

I was trying to send a "Goose Warning", to duke the other night when I tryed to"Down Load" a spell check App. Not good folks..Back to the "Goose Warning" They are ALL in Northern Illinois near the Polititions(sp) in CHI -Town..Look Hard @ MO. That state is lots better for Gun Owners than Illinois..As for cattle I can't say..Concealed Carry in ILLINOIS - I am developing a "Wait + See".

[btroj]

A 450 Marlin will handle loads that are way beyond what are needed for deer. A 400 bullet at 2000 fps is an awful lot for deer hunting.

I have a 45-70 Marlin and have begun to think a 420 in the 1400 fps range is about right.

[41 mag fan]

Whew....450 Marlin for a midwest deer.....just bring a cooler, you hit one with a chunk of lead that size, it'll be wrapped and ready for the freezer before it hits the ground!!

[Gtek]

There are people with Marlinitis that I think would be all over that, expand your smoke signals. I have Marlinitis, I have one, and yes I know it is a little stout for our German Shepards with horns. At the range under the roof it makes heads come up off stocks with that porting, but it is a thrill to watch it roll up a nice fat piggy! Gtek

[runfiverun]

one of the best cast boolit guns i ever shot was a scoped cz in 458 win mag.
and one of the worst was a 450 marlin stoked up to stupid.
i agree with brad, i keep my 45-70 glomping along with a 435gr gas checked boolit in the 1400 range it's like shooting a big 44 mag with more of a push than a snap.

[btroj]

Yep, a 420 at 1400 is quite pleasant to shoot. I have a feeling that bullet will go clean thru any deer I come across. Iris also pretty insensitive to change in alloy. It isn't going fast rough to expand with the alloys I usually shoot but it has enough flat to the nose that I don't care.
I have shot a couple bears with the same bullet approaching 1700 and it just isn't quite as much fun.

Duke, either of those cartridges will easily hammer a deer. Which rifle do you like better? Both can be made to shoot well.

[Tazman1602]

What JH said. I've shot whitetail with my .450 Marlin with factory loads...............messy but DRT. Load it down to 45-70 levels (1100-1250fps/405-500 grain bullets) and it will do just ducky at 100 yards man.

Art



Just load it down to the milder 45/70 loads and enjoy it.

[6pt-sika]

A Marlin 1895M was the first Marlin I ever purchased and it handloaded with the no longer made Nosler 300 grain Partition was a deer killer par excellance !

Had a Marlin 1895MXLR as well and that one with the 325 grain rubber tipped bullet would knock the proverbial fire out of a Virginia deer .

Besides the 1895M and 1895MXLR I had a 1895MR to the best of my knowledge those three models were the ONLY models Marlin made the cartridge in . Sorry to say I no longer own any of them and never used the 1895MR to kill a deer . But I certainly did enjoy shooting all three on paper and the other two on deer .

Never shot cast in this cartridge either . But to be honest my handloads for the 450 Marlin were almost exactly the same as my handloads for the variouse 45-70 Marlin's I had at the time . Well as far as jacketed loads are concerned .

[Beau Cassidy]

Why do you want to juice up a .450? It is a fairly lightweight gun and just slaps the **** out of you. I have whacked several deer with a 380 Grain Ballisticast bullet at about 1800 FPS. All DRT.

[TheGrimReaper]

I HAD a Marlin Guide Gun in .450 Marlin. Shooting it with factory loads was like swapping licks with Mike Tyson. Sold it and later bought a Marlin 1895 in .45-70 and hand load for it. Like it much better.

[Gunlaker]

If you handload there really isn't any significant difference between the .450 Marlin and the .45-70 except for the fact that the brass is way harder to get and more expensive. Check out the Hornady load data for the two cartridges and you'll see that they are almost identical and that for some loads the .45-70 will produce just a bit more velocity with max loads.

Chris.

[MT Chambers]

IMHO the 45/70 is more powerful when loaded to top pressure levels in the same model rifle, it really makes the .450 unnecessary. When loaded to these levels, recoil is vicious, but I've tested all my bullets to those levels for accuracy and penetration/expansion. Some loads come to within 150 fps. of the .458 mag.

[Tatume]

I really don't know much about this cartridge but what I do know it is some what similar to the .458 Winchester Magnum. Which I have one I'm stuck with. It was purchased for a safari and a move to Northern Montana which we canceled in lieu of Barbie wanting a farm in the midwest to raise cow on.
So here's the question, Is there much difference between a 450 and a 458 both loaded with a 400 or 500 grainer for midwest Whitetail Deer?
I feel like an idiot shooting Whitetails with a 458 Winchester Magnum.
And before anyone asks I tried for 3 months now to sell it. I'm just keeping it.

Actually, the 450 Marlin was designed to be NOT like the 458 Win Mag. In order to make sure we couldn't use shortened 458 Win Mag brass (aka 458 American), Marlin made the belt taller. Shortened 458 Win Mag cases will drop into the chamber too far for the firing pin to reach. The logic of this escapes me. I might have bought one if I could have used common belted cases, of which I have an abundance.


If you handload there really isn't any significant difference between the .450 Marlin and the .45-70 except for the fact that the brass is way harder to get and more expensive. Check out the Hornady load data for the two cartridges and you'll see that they are almost identical and that for some loads the .45-70 will produce just a bit more velocity with max loads.

Exactly so.

Also, as several people have already said, the 458 Win Mag makes a perfectly fine cast bullet cartridge. I like to use IMR4895 for reduced loads with 400 grain cast bullets. It is very easy (if you know what you're doing or get the advice of a knowledgable person) to shoot 350 or 400 grain cast bullets at 1300 fps. This is an outstanding 150 yard deer load, and drops them quickly with minimal meat loss (you can eat right up to the hole!). You might want to read "Forty years with the Forty Five Seventy" by Paul Mathews. He considered the 458 Win Mag to be the best 45-70 hunting rifle he ever owned. :-)


Take care, Tom

[birddog21]

i have a 450 marlin in a win 94 last year made super rifle light for all day hikes put a leo scout on it love that little gun factory ammo is stiff but hand load make it quite pleasant to shoot and cycles ammo way better than my marlin 45/70

[MT Gianni]

I knew my BIL was different when we went jackrabbit hunting and he brought a 458 Win. Dance with the one ya got.

[TXGunNut]

I knew my BIL was different when we went jackrabbit hunting and he brought a 458 Win. Dance with the one ya got.

Sounds like fun to me. 8-) Besides, you never know when one of those wascally wabbits is going to duck behind a fencepost or a Buick or something, right?

[44magLeo]

Rebarrel it to something a bit more to your liking. The 458 is a standard length action. So any belted cartridge that is the same length will be a fairly easy swap. A lot of people like the 7 mm mag, the 338 mag, good options.
Leo

[pdawg_shooter]

I load a 1895G with a 430gr. paper patched bullet over enough AA2495 to give me just a tad over 1870fps. Drops everything I have ever shot with it.

[StrawHat]

Actually, the 450 Marlin was designed to be NOT like the 458 Win Mag. In order to make sure we couldn't use shortened 458 Win Mag brass (aka 458 American), Marlin made the belt taller. Shortened 458 Win Mag cases will drop into the chamber too far for the firing pin to reach. The logic of this escapes me. I might have bought one if I could have used common belted cases, of which I have an abundance.
Take care, Tom

I doubt the Company was concerned with using Magnum brass in their rifle. I believe they had issue with the fact the 458x2" could be chambered in the belted magnums of smaller than 45 caliber, ie 257 Weatherby, 300 Winchester Magnum, 375 H&H etc. Trying to squeeze the 45 caliber bullet to a smaller diameter so quickly would probably be exciting!

[onceabull]

Maybeso if you really want out of a 458 Win.get realistic on pricing. I've sold two in the last 6 months, making good $ on each despite my value pricing methodology...458 W. 350-400 gr Pb,@ 1800-2000 not just a deer harvestor,but a darn fine elk knocker.... Onceabull