Gas Checked vs Plain based?

[crabo]

It seems like everyone is telling me that a gas checked version of a boolit will usually shoot better than a plain based bullet.

I just shot a bunch of LBT 160 FN in .358 through my S&W 586. The plain based bullets shot better and rounder groups than the gas checked using the same powders and charges. I did not have any leading at 15 grains of 2400 with the plain based. I got the boolits from Montanna Bullet Works.

I guess this one of those times that as Lloyd Smalle says, "You just have to shoot the crap out of your gun" to find out what it likes?

I am happy that it shoots the plain based better because it will easier to cast.

I had another surprise, the RCBS 358429 would not shoot good at 50 yards with any load. One load shot under 2", but all the others were 3-6 inches. Makes me think the one good group was a freak of nature.

I have tried:
a comercially cast 158 bbswc, not good at 50 yards
LBT 160 fn pb
LBT 160 fn gc
RCBS 82032 158 swc
RCBS 82305 158 fprn
RCBS 358429 173 Keith swc

Powders I have tried with these bullets are:
Unique
AA#9
Trail Boss
Bullseye
2400

The winner for my gun is the RCBS 82032 powered by 15 grains of 2400.
The LBT shot best in .38 special cases powered by 3.2 grains of Bullseye.

I was amazed to see that some of my assumptions didn't work out. This is the first time I have tried to load for accuracy in a handgun. I just always followed my commercial reloader friend's suggestions for loads with cast bullets.

What do you think the deal is with the plain based vs the gas checks?

Do you think the 158 grain RCBS swc is a good small game load up to deer? If I am going to hunt deer, I will use my .44.

Thanks,

Crabo

[Bass Ackward]

The base is the steering wheel of a bullet. A GC simply protects a bullet from you and the load you want to propel it and the mechanicals of the gun. If you don't know what you are doing or the gun has bad mechanicals, the GC compensates for these mistakes.

Thus more guys can shoot GCs successfully. That get's translated out to be, GCs shoot better.

Did you ever hear the one that , "Jacketed are more accurate than cast"?

[black44hawk]

Bass Ackward has a good point: You do not have to do as much trial and error with GC bullets, and you can push them at maximum velocities without much trepidation. However, everytime you have to buy that (gulp) $25 worth of little copper cups it is a pain in the wallet. I am currently weening myself off GC pistol bullets.

[44man]

It is a question of what boolit your gun likes best, not whether it has a gas check or not. If a boolit shoots good either way, don't worry about it. I shoot both and never see any difference if the boolit is right for the gun. If the boolit is wrong, it doesn't matter what is on the tail end.

[Larry Gibson]

"everyone is telling me that a gas checked version of a boolit will usually shoot better than a plain based bullet"

It is true but the above is incomplete and taken out of context. GC'd bullets do , in fact, provide better accuracy above 1400-1500 fps. Your loads for your 586 aren't exceeding that velocity. Thus with a good square PB's bullet you can get excellent accuracy out of your revolver that is equal or possibly better than you'd get with a GC'd bullet. However, GC'bullets allow you to shoot softer alloys to higher velocity than a comparable PB'd bullet. Load a 140-150 gr bullet to 1500 fps out of a 6-8 3/8ths barreled revolver or to 1600+ fps out of a 10" Contender and the GC bullet will prove the more accurate every time. Back them off to the 1300 or so fps of your load and the PB works fine.

Larry Gibson

[DonH]

IMO, bullet performance in a revolver is a function of the bullet fitting the cylinder throats and groove diameter at the breech end of the barrel. Given a good fit and a smooth forcing cone, one might be surprised how hard a plain-based bullet can be driven - and how hard a bullet must be to do it. I have shot many 429421s over 24.0 gr W296 from my Blackhawk Bisley with superb accuracy and no leqding. the bullets were cast of WW without heat treating ot water dropping. this example is still within Larry's velocity parameters but a very hot load nevertheless. I will agree it takes less effort with gas checks.

A couple of gents I know who are in the mould-making business have for 2 or 3 years been doing a ton of testing with cast bullets in rifles using an Oehler Model 43 chronograph. This allows reading chamber pressure, velocity, plotting trajectory, etc. This science coupled with their combined wealth of knowledge has seen many long-held maxims of cast-bullet shooting disproven. The competitive-shooting member of the pair has related shooting plain-base bullets cast of 25-1 alloy to 1700 fps and above with no leading. He normally shoots the combination at lower velocity levels for ultimate accuracy but has demonstrated that with a very good barrel and bullet fit, plain-base bullets can be pushed quite fast.

As for jacketed bullet, it IS easier to get good accuracy with them. It is not unusual for MN 7.62x54s to shoot very with .311/.312 j-bullets in a bore as large as.314. Try that with cast bullets regardless of alloy or type of bullet base.

[racepres]

A few years ago I just had to have a short barrelled Blackhawk .44 Mag! Nothing would work out of it except light "copper covered" projectiles! Till I tried a fairly light [200 gr] P.B. cast over a copious amount of Blue Dot! Now she Really does shoot!! Recoil is a bit stout, what bit of lead is in 'er brushes out readily, and they out-shoot any GC model I tried!!! Gotta "shoot 'em an see"... MV