This is a huge part of the problem

[Olevern]

http://now.msn.com/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-says-mom-of-mentally-ill-son


we have closed the mental hospitals (don't want to pay for them, not worth fighting ACLU over patient's rights to be in society)

[shooter93]

I watched one of the talking heads news shows that are on Sunday morning and George Will sumed it up quite well. One of the things he mentioned was how we handle the mental illness issues in this country. The vast majority of gun owners readily admit there is a problem in this country but it isn't the inanimate object. It's a number of things including lacking parental guidence, kids glued to video games till they think the world is a video game, disregard for any kind of responsibility etc. A lot of parents would never admit their child has a problem or issues even though they could quite possibly be corrected. There is definately a problem in this country but firearms have nothing to do with it.

[Blammer]

resources and GOOD ideas and suggestions on how to deal with a child with mental illness are lacking.

Perhaps the NRA could step in with some sort of help hot line. Suggest things such as a safe to put firearms and "dangerous" objects (knives, etc...) in to keep them away from 'unstable' individuals. Bring items to a family member or freinds house across town, etc...

I'm sure if the NRA put their mind to it they could help in some other ways. Perhaps it would be a good outreach program and help mould a lot of peoples perception of the NRA as an organization. Preventing extra gun laws that are useless, and helping to prevent "firearm related violence" in other ways, may be helpful to many.

just brainstorming here.

[MtGun44]

In the KC area a few years back, one of these "problem" kids with"issues" - forget whether
autistic or whatever - weird, screwy kid, late teens, decides that killing (I forget the details)
either Mom or maybe Mom and guidance councelor visiting the home, something like
that. Walked to the kitchen, opened a drawer and grabbed a butcher knife, started killing
people. Not about gun control.

Found a link - never heard the chain saw stuff, and the "kid" was 20 and on psych meds,
social worker was checking to see if he was taking them.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/may/17/grisly_details_johnson_county_social_workers_slayi/

These people need to be in nut houses where they can't hurt people.

Bill

[sparky45]

I agree with you Bill, but who's going to pay the bill. I'm not sure, but insurance didn't cover things like that back in the day. When I took my psychology courses for Nursing, we had to work in a facility that took care of adolescents up to age 18 with their IQ's in the 60 and lower level. Seemed like our primary job was to make sure they didn't hurt others or themselves as well as keep them from ingesting feces, toothpaste and anything else that wasn't allowed. These are individuals that just crush your heart, but there isn't a darn thing you can do about it. They obviously couldn't become a part of society, yet folks on the Left thought they shouldn't be in an institution because it violated their civil rights. Now granted, where I trained was the bottom of the psyc "barrel" and we treated extreme cases, but there wasn't any way they could intergrate into society. I don't know what happens with them now, that facility was one that closed years ago.

[koehn,jim]

sparky 45 most of the patient care you are talking about was paid for by the government, and cut by politicians to save money not by liberals. You may recall that Romney wanted to further cut Medicare and Medicade, I agree that these people need and deserve care but no one wants to pay for it.

[MtGun44]

More info:

*********** snipped from an online article *****************

Connecticut is one of only SIX states in the U.S. that doesn’t have a type
of “assisted outpatient treatment” (AOT) law (sometimes referred to as
“involuntary outpatient treatment”). There’s no one standard for these
types of laws, but (roughly speaking) these are laws that allow for people
with mental illness to be forcibly treated BEFORE they commit a serious crime.

Whereas previous legal standards held that the mentally ill cannot be
institutionalized or medicated until they harm someone or themselves,
or until they express an immediate intent to do so, AOT laws (again,
roughly speaking) allow for preventative institutionalization or forced
medication

AOT laws vary state-by-state, and often bear the name of a person
murdered by an untreated mentally ill person (“Kendra’s Law” in New
York, “Laura’s Law” in California, etc.).

Earlier this year, Connecticut considered passing an AOT law (and
a weak one, at that), and it failed, due to protests from “civil liberties”
groups.

************************* end of snip ******

Yes the cost could be high, but what is the acceptable body count because
we are unwilling to spend the money and "infringe" on the rights of the
nutjobs? We used to have lots of state mental institutions, but the
pendulum swung against this, and now we have the homeless living
under bridges and in alleys (many mentally ill or substance addicted
to the point of incapacitation) and the slow drip of violent mental
cases hurting people. The pendulum needs to swing back a bit.

Bill

[Bad Water Bill]

As someone who has lost both a wife and her daughter to mental illness I agree 100%

[MtGun44]

BWBill- very sorry to hear about your huge losses.

Bill

[Mike in TX]

I am also a RN and the psych course was a joke. It never addressed the problem only how to control it with medications. My mother for 29 years was a diagnosed chronic paranoid and schizophrenic. It was h3ll on wheels. Fortunately my father loved her dearly and did everything that was possible. Unfortunately the state of VT decided that it was better to have the seriously ill left on the streets and with the families. My family was fortunate that there were medical professional relatives and all did their best to help. Her death was a relief. She was out of her misery for some times she knew that she had a problem and it was a relief for the family. Harsh but true.

[Olevern]

sparky 45 most of the patient care you are talking about was paid for by the government, and cut by politicians to save money not by liberals. You may recall that Romney wanted to further cut Medicare and Medicade, I agree that these people need and deserve care but no one wants to pay for it.

You are partially right, the liberal politicians saw that the recipients of this money don't vote, so, for them the money could be put to better use buying votes with "entitlements" to populations that would vote to keep them in power and the entitlements coming. No savings involved, just a switch to more voting bang for the dems bucks. The constant lawsuits from the ACLU were the excuse.

Never trust a person who tells you he/or she cares by taking money out of other's pockets to "help" you (and themselves) but never adds anything from their own millionaire fortunes to help.

At least Romney had a long history of bringing relief to others who came in his path with HIS OWN money.

I tend to think that if there were like stories on the other side of that political battle, they would have been brought out to the forefront of the campaign.

[sparky45]

sparky 45 most of the patient care you are talking about was paid for by the government, and cut by politicians to save money not by liberals. You may recall that Romney wanted to further cut Medicare and Medicade, I agree that these people need and deserve care but no one wants to pay for it.

Had nothing to do with Medicare, it was all state funded and some private insurance. When the state ran out of money cuts were made, period. Now, the closing of Mental facilities for other than low IQ's , the fat cats in D.C. made those decisions. What do you suppose the "fix" will be for all fiscal situations in the future? I believe it will be "care by committee; reduced services(rationed care, which BTW has already started) . There WILL be "death panels" to decide who and what kind of care the "masses" receive. There's no way enough tax revenue can be raised to come close to paying the tab when 47% of the labor force today doesn't pay ANY TAXES!!