Official Lyman 12ga Sabot Slug Mould 525 grain Load Data Thread

[Just Duke]

Official Lyman 12ga Sabot Slug Mould 525 grain Load Data Thread
I have never used this slug. Anyone have non magnum and magnum data on the in 12 ga.?
Shell type? Wad type?

[ovendoctor]

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[littlejack]

I have just begun to get serious with this slug, and loads. I will be very interested in some of the other members loads and componants. So far, the only load I have compiled, from my Lyman shotshell book is with a Remington STS case, a WAA12 wad and 25 grains of Herco. I fired these in a smooth bore, cyl. choke. Accuracy at 50 yards was not acceptable.
I am going to make a die to punch out proper sized card wads to go underneath the Lyman slug itself.
I have swapped out my bird barrel with a Hastings 20" rifled barrel, and will be mounting a Burris 2x7x35 scope in a day or so.
So fellas, lets post some tried and true Lyman Sabot Slug loads.
Jack

[RED333]

I will be watching as well.

[ovendoctor]

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[ovendoctor]

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[gunoholic]

I've only shot a handful of these, just enough to sight in the red dot on my saiga12 so i cant tell you what they group like out of the 17" barrel.
but they had a nice brisk recoil :)
i've since loaded the rest i had cast.The recipe i used is: winchester aa hull, 35g of 4756, a waa12r, and crimped not rolled as i read somewhere a roll crimp with these slugs can rip a petal off the wad causing poor accuracy, maybe a stiff overshot card would fix that if you want roll crimped.

[Carryacolt]

Littlejack
Do a search here for fullbore slugs. You want to pursue that
course rather than the Lyman 525

[littlejack]

Carryacolt, so do I.
I have not researched full bore slugs. The little bit of information that I have run across, states that bore leading will/may be a problem.
I have however bought a small lathe this last summer, and want to get a blank Lee mould block and cut a cavity with a better BC than the Lyman sabot slug. I would like to cut a cavity that would be more to a black powder paper patched design, with a non-tapered shank and round flat nose, and the diameter of the Lyman Sabot Slug. I could still use (the) wad, or a different wad to suit the load. I realize that the weight would be more than the Lyman. The only problem may be the length of the boolit and it's stability with the rifling twist in the Hastings barrel.
The original British paradox slug was fullbore diameter, short and squatty but it is (was) however designed for close in work for dangerous game. The paradox gun, (at least the one I read about) was smoothebore, except for the last few inches, to spin the paradox slug. The idea was to shoot shot loads, AND slug load efficiently. Very interesting concept. Something like a rifled choke.
The more things change, the more thay stay the same. Eh?
I have seen other slugs on this forum and others that resemble a truncated cone handgun slug. The taper at/towards the ogive was short, with what looked to be a straight shank. The slug itself also seemed short and squatty. Things just look out of proportion for the poor old 12 guage slug.
Any thoughts? Anybody?
Jack

[littlejack]

Gunaholic:
I did find a load in my Lyman book for 30 grains of Herco with the WAA12 wad and the Lyman slug. The
loads sounds very close to your load of 35 grains 4756.
I loaded a few of them up yesterday. I am going to mount my scope today and run out to the range and give them a try. I will Chrony them some other time.
I will let you know how they shoot.
Jack

[gunoholic]

heres the load data i found on another forum, its from the lyman manual

Powder Charge Primer Wad Velocity Pressure

Federal Gold Medal

Univ. Clays 36.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1503 10,100
WSF 34.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1482 11,300
Herco 32.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1389 11,100
SR 4756 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1585 10,500
800X 31.5 Fed 209AWAA12 1459 10,700
Blue Dot 46.5 Win 209 WAA12R 1544 9,900
571 42.0 Fed 209AFed 12S4 1429 10,700

Federal Plastic Hunting

Univ. Clays 35.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1442 9,300
34.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1421 9,200
Herco 30.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1297 9,100
SR 4756 40.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1439 8,300
800X 30.0 Fed 209AFed 12S4 1403 9,800
Blue Dot 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1408 7,300
571 42.0 Fed 209AFed 12S4 1405 9,900

Fiocchi Plastic

Univ. Clays 34.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1478 10,100
WSF 31.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1383 10,000
SR 4756 37.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1396 8,700
N3SH 36.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1486 9,700
Blue Dot 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1476 8,800

Remington RTL (Premier)

Univ. Clays 29.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1386 10,800
Unique 23.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1269 11,100
Herco 25.0 Win 209 WAA12 1249 11,300
SR 4756 34.0 Rem 209PWAA12R 1448 11,100
SR 4756 35.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1462 10,900
Blue Dot 41.0 Rem 209PWAA12F114 1475 11,000
Blue Dot 43.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1501 11,200

Remington Unibody SP

Univ. Clays 32.0 Win 209 WAA12 1416 9,900
WSF 32.0 Win 209 WAA12 1434 11,400
Herco 30.0 Win 209 WAA12 1336 10,600
SR 4756 37.5 Win 209 WAA12F114 1468 10,200
800X 31.0 Win 209 Fed 12S3 1440 10,700
Blue Dot 45.5 Win 209 WAA12F114 1482 9,300
Blue Dot 46.0 Win 209 Fed 12S4 1532 10,600

Winchester AA

Univ. Clays 29.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1358 9,700
Unique 23.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1271 11,100
Unique 22.5 Win 209 Fed 12S3 1231 10,500
WSF 30.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1393 11,000
WSF 28.0 Win 209 Fed 12S3 1332 10,500
Herco 25.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1273 10,900
SR 4756 35.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1378 8,800
N3SH 30.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1372 10,100
Blue Dot 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1474 9,200

[littlejack]

gunoholic:
The load (30 grains of Herco w/WAA12 wad) under the Remington Unibody SP heading, is the load that I tried out this afternoon. I weighed the slugs, and the average of five was 508 grains. The alloy must be a little on the hard side.
I had to mount the scope, and away I went. I had loaded 8 rounds yesterday.
I started on 2x at 25 yards to get the scope sighted in. The first shot went 4" high from X, and 6" to the right. I started
kranking. The second shot went 2" high and 2" right. The third shot went into the 2" center circle.
I moved to the 50 yard line, and adjusted the scope to 4x.
First shot hit at 10 o'clock on the inside of the 2" circle. Second and third shots touching at 6 o'clock inside the 2" circle. 4Th shot cut the first hole at the top of the 2" circle. 5th shot touched the lower two shots making a perfect clover leif.
So, the 5 shot group was approximately 2" center to center. Thats not too bad considering the terrible trigger, not using a rear
sand bag, and the first load I've made up for the rifled Hastings barrell. I believe I am going to like slinging thes great big slugs.
Oh yea, the recoil was very tolerable.
Keep all the information comin fellas. Good loadin and shootin to you all.
Jack

[jimb16]

Please keep the data coming. I just cast a bunch of these and haven't started loading anything yet. I'm glad to see this thread.

[oldandslow]

dn & lj, 12/17/12

Over the past couple of years I've tried to get a number of slugs to work in my smoothbore Remington 12 ga. Marine Magnum with a Leupold 2-8 scope. I've tried BPI's shuttlecock (450 grains) and Foster slugs (375 grains) and their Gualandi DGS slug with attached wad (491 grains). I also put a lot of time and work into the Lyman 525 grain slugs. I've tried many tricks that some posters here and at www.shotgunworld.com have used with some success. I've tried different hulls, powder loads, different crimps ( 6 pt, 8 pt, roll), different wads and shot cards(20 and 12 gauge). I've tried full length wads, and ones with the petals cut part way off and all the way off. The average groups were in the 4-6" range at 25 yards, clearly unacceptable for my short range pig hunting. The only exception were the Gualandi slugs which would shoot cloverleaf groups at both 25 and 50 yards (0.84" - 3" groups). Since these were expensive and had to come halfway around the world (Italy via BPI) to reach me I wanted something more available.

The answer was a fullbore slug. I slugged my barrel and ordered a semicustom slug mold from www.Accuratemolds, a 770 grain thumper with two conventional lube grooves. I ran this through a Savage rifled barrel made to fit the Remington 870 (amazingly it was a drop-in fit). After a lot of helpful advice from here and SGW I found a load that puts them into 1" groups at 25 yards with a velocity of 954 ft/second. I've only put it through one 120# male pig so far but it went in the right chest and out the other side leaving two great holes for blood trails. The pig just stopped and lay down. The shotgun bore has never shown any leading but there is some occasional unburned powder flakes in the barrel.

If you've found a load that gives consistent 2" groups at 50 yards with your Lyman 525 then you're ahead of many of us. Good luck.

merry Christmas- oldandslow

[quasi]

the first load I tried from the Data that Lyman supplied with their mould gave me 4" groups at 50 yards. I will check my records for the exact load, I know it was the old style WW-AA 2 3/4" cases, win red wad.

[littlejack]

oldandslow:
Remember that I did shoot that group with a hastings rifled barrell. As I stated in my earlier post, I did not get acceptable results with my smoothbore barrell, and I figured I might as well just get a rifled barrell rather than get totally frustrated at trying to make all of the different balls, sabot's, powders and hulls work. Besides that, I think it was cheaper in the long run.
Merry Christmas to you also sir, and to the CastBoolits.
Jack

[littlejack]

quast:
Thank you for your post. If you have find more information on that load, please let us know.
Jack

[BoolitBill]

This load works well for me:

Rem STS hulls
Win 209 primer
WAA12F1114 or Claybuster clone wad
2/3rds of a 1/8 inch 20 guage card wad under the slug
Lyman 525 slug
22.0 grains of Unique
8 fold crimp

The card wad was cut to 2/3rds of its original length because I could get a better crimp with that rather than a full 1/8inch card wad. I also feel that the card wad will keep the slug from cutting into the F1114 wad and causing unstable separation downrange. Anyway it works for me. I get 2 inch groups at 50 yards and on a good day I can get 6 inch groups at 100 yards through my Mossberg 500 with rifle sights (cylinder bore).

[tomcat388th]

I've shot this slug for quite a few years out of a 12g ultra slug hunter
2 3/4 federal gold medal hull
federal 12s4 wad
win 209 primer
45 grains blue dot
Back fill the slug cavity flush with hot melt glue this keep the wad from pushing up the backside and take a file and lay the slug on it side and knurl the edges this will grip the wad a little better for spin. this load will stay on a 3 inch dot at 100 yards. The only problem that I have is with plastic fouling after about 6 or 7 shot that starts to effect accuracy. These slug just hammer deer on a good chest shot it usually bang flop.
Another good load/info is the 3 inch here
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67781&highlight=peter&page=1

[farmbif]

Shot some of these today using an old mossberg 500 with smooth bore 24" Slugster barrel--all loads 2 3/4" -- remington high brass 1/4" base wad shells, remington primer, 33.5 gr herco , DRA12114 wad. about a 8" group of 4 at 50 yards mv was 1418-1453

with new Fiocchi high brass shells fiocchi primer, 37 grains of longshot, Federal 12s4 wad. got the group down a few inches seemed a little better but it sure was no tack driver. mv was just over 1500 fps

this test was not very scientific but what i found was the slugs sit flat in the genuine federal wads and the slug did not seem to sit squarely in any other wads i have including waa12, waa12r, dra12f114 a down range duplicate of waa12f114, rp12 and rxp12.

i plan on figuring this out further through the summer maybe what is needed is a rifled barrel. any and all suggestions are appreciated

[BattleRife]

I have fiddled with some of these slugs and SR 4756 just to get a handle on velocities, haven't worried too much about accuracy yet, though it seemed promising. Point of impact was virtually the same with all charges. This data was collected out of a Rem 870 fully rifled 20" barrel. I understand that not everyone will appreciate the metric units:

71788

[hatcreek]

I just tried this slug it shot like a dream, I used 31gr of Herco, trap commander wad in a 2 3/4" Cheddie hull, 870 remington fully rifled barrel bench rest 50yds, also 8 point crimp, anyone have any of these slugs for sale I would be interested. HC

[chambers]

Best Load: Hull=Winchester AA hull, Powder WSF=30 grains, Primer = Winchester 209, Wad Winchester WAA12F114 with a 20 gauge 1/8" shot card hot glued in wad cup. Hot glue shot card greatly increases accuracy, shoot at 100 yards. Shot several deer last several years, great load. Shot from Remington 1187 & 1100 rifled barrel. Pedal from wad do tear off. Spend several months trying different load. I roll crimp and 8 point crimp.

[jimb16]

My Mossberg 500 seems to like the Lyman 525 with 42 gr of Blue dot in a Claybuster WAA12 replacement wad with a W209 primer. I have a rifled slug barrel on it. I havent had time to fully test it, but at 25 yards, I'm getting 3 shot cloverleafs less than 1 inch. I need to adjust the sights to that load then move back to 50 yards or further for more taesting, but it looks promising. BTW, the hulls are Rem unibodies with a star crimp.

[Bullwolf]

I use the Lyman 525 hollow base slug a little.

72680

Except mine weigh around 468-470 grains when cast from my Mono-type alloy. Because of this I used some of the data for the 475 grain Lyman slug instead.

I use older 2 3/4 Win AA hulls, and have also used Peters (Blue Magic) hulls, Win 209 primers, and both WAA12 and WAA12R red & white wads. The two loads I have used are 36.0 grains of Hercules Blue Dot, and 32.0 grains of Hercules Unique.

Unique 32.0 grains, Win 209, Win AA hull, Win WAA12 wad, Lyman 475 pure lead slug.

Blue Dot 36.0 grains, Win 209, Win AA hull, Win WAA12R wad, 12 pellets 00 Buck.

Both loads are from the Lyman Third Edition Shot shell Handbook 1984-1991.

The Blue Dot load is intended for 00 Buck, but I've used it for both buckshot and the Lyman slug.

I haven't put it on paper, or shot it past 50 yards. I use it for an inexpensive & mild slug practice load.


- Bullwolf

[richhodg66]

What alloys are you guys who load these generally using? I'm curious if softer or harder alloys work better.

[coalsmoke]

I mold mine out of pure lead and use the following:
AA Hull
WAA12F114 Wad
209 primer
29 gr Univ Clays

I get about 4" @ 100 yards out of a Mossberg 695 and my Dad's H&R Ultra slug. I can't describe the devastation on deer and hogs. I haven't shot one end on, but it will not stay in a deer. I have 2 recovered from hogs and they are huge flat disks.

The 525 is an awesome slug!

[Beagler]

I just used air cooled WW. They work fine for me. I also fill back end of slug with hot glue.

[Beagler]

I just used air cooled WW. They work fine for me. I also fill back end of slug with hot glue. Also now use cheddite 3in hulls. They have a beefier base wad that hold up better under the pressure of this load. I shoot it out of a H/R ultra slugger

[ovendoctor]

I just used air cooled WW. They work fine for me. I also fill back end of slug with hot glue. Also now use cheddite 3in hulls. They have a beefier base wad that hold up better under the pressure of this load. I shoot it out of a H/R ultra slugger

excellent idea filling the base of the slug with hot glue

Doc.

[unclogum bill]

"I also fill back end of slug with hot glue", l thought l was the only one . But l use shoe goop. do it twice cause it shrinks a mite. TrippleA white wad, cardboard spacer and 24 gr. green dot.

[joeatact]

This load works well for me:

Federal 12ga 2-3/4" new/primed/clear hull
Win 209 primer
WAA12 wad
1/8 inch 20 guage card wad under the slug
Lyman 525 slug
25.0 grains of Herco
8 fold crimp
Dead on from my Mossberg 500 with rifled barrel and scope.

[CHeatermk3]

Why fill the back of the slug if you're using a shotcup-type wad?
I'm just starting to try this slug with Fio. white 2-3/4" hulls 12s3 wad over blue dot, HS-6 & 4759.
Having to use 2-0.125" cards as shims to make a good fold crimp.

No accuracy testing yet just finding out what powders/charges will work with what I have on hand. Tried RL17 but can't get it to light.

[unclogum bill]

"Why fill the back of the slug if you're using a shotcup-type wad?"
l Would have never admitted to doing it if someone else hadn't said they did it first. Long answer is this, spent a lot of time trying to outshoot the 100 yard novices with a shotgun, Yes I cheated some, Rifled barrel did better and a tube of mercury added in the stock dampened recoil some. Picture some 1,000 dollar plus gun whose owner can't hit the target getting to watch a guy shooting a 12 gauge next to him do it. Anyway what worked for me was goop filled slug (watch for air bubbles). Triple A hull(2 3/4),wad , white , also added a corrugated cardboard spacer under slug for added height. Now nowhere will you see this and I don't say its safe, just worked for me. the charge was , and 20 years later still is, 24 grains of green dot.
Short answer, Darn it was accurate. Problem I had is (in my opinion) shot guns have thin barrels and flex with heat. I could build a snake going up the target . it could be compensated for if you paid it mind. Plus side I got free range lead and green dot was cheap. I punched my spacers out with a 1/2 inch socket I ground to a bevel edge. Another answer could be heavy is better for elephants. When recovered those slugs still were filled with goop. It really is quite the fix it glue.







































i spent

[Lon246]

Used the 525 gr Lyman slug to harvest 5 whitetail.
Fired in a Rem Express pump with a screw on Hastings rifled choke tube.
Accuracy was about 3" at 50 yds and 6" at 100 yds. Zeroed at 100 and 3"-4" high at 50.
Beyond 100 yds accuracy and drop made me call it a 100 yard gun.
Iron sights fit to ventilated rib.

Winchester AA Blue Dot 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1474 9,200

Kicked hard, killed well.

[MarkP]

32 gr Longshot, Grey Claybuster (7/8 oz AA clone) AA hull shoots; 3" at 80 yds, can hit gong at 165 yds w/ 30" of holdover. Can not hit large sheet of card board at 180 yds. They destabilized after 165 or so and flew into a 15 foot pattern. At this range they still made pretty good sized holes in the prairie grass root structure.

I would agree about a 100 yds for hunting.

[MA4A]

Thanks Lon246. I have a 12G 870 Rem and a Hastings rifled choke I have never used. Now to use it.
Most of my use with the Lyman slug has been in the under barrel of a Bretta 12G. Also also used the 20G slug in the under barrel of a Browning Citori.
Both shot to the sight which in both cases which were Lyman 3mm light pipes. Maximun group size a 50 yds was 2 inches off a bench. Of course only the lower barrel in both cases would shoot(regulate) to the sights. The over barrel in both cases shot high and to the left and 2-3 inches high
and about the same left.
The 20G performed best on paper at 50yds as shots were cutting each other occasionally. Have not shot at longer ranges.
Both are used on hogs with buckshot in the over barrel.

[Squeeze]

Ive been casting and shooting this mold for years, mostly out of pump guns with great success.
current load is winchester w.209 primers
AA shells and WAA wads
with a charge of 36 grn blue dot powder
I just use a standard crimp.

[phaessler]

Now there is a load that looks familiar.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?67781-Lyman-525-amp-NEF-UltraSLug


I just used air cooled WW. They work fine for me. I also fill back end of slug with hot glue. Also now use cheddite 3in hulls. They have a beefier base wad that hold up better under the pressure of this load. I shoot it out of a H/R ultra slugger

[hatcreek]

96129 This is what works for me.
Cheddie 2 3/4" Hull
trap commander wad from BPI
42.8grs of Blue dot

The target was 50yrds bench rest 870 with a 20" rifled barrel, bored sighted nikon scope. Good luck let us know how you do... HC Forgot to mention 6pt crimp.

[hatcreek]

96135Hers a picture of the finished product, these slugs are incredible, I doubt you'll be disappointed. HC

[Squeeze]

when you fill the cavity with glue, do they still weigh out the same? I Have to weigh and cull my slugs for best accuracy. I make them in bulk usually a few hundred at least at a clip, then every few years I have to resight when i make more

[Wyatt 525]

hey tomcat388th. you still shooting any of this recipe?

[Ford SD]

I was /am using wwaa hull win 114 wad and WSF as in one of the prevous posts (Lyman Book)

Was casting the Lyman Slug by the 20 lb pot

Rem 870 IC rifle sighted barrel and I was Breaking Clays sitting on the berm at 50 yds (freestanding) or close enough to cover it in dirt

No problem shooting 5-10-25 at a sitting and at the price i was reloading them --I did not care --
Loaded them in the grey AA Hull so they were different from the Red shot loads

WSF I stocked up on --- for Ipsc 9- 40 and 45cal and shotgun loads
then I got married and had kids (and work every weekend)

at this point till the kids get shooting I have a lifetime supply of WSF and I have been told it is discontinued

[tomcat388th]

[QUOTE=Wyatt 525;3498396]hey tomcat388th. you still shooting any of this recipe?[/QUOT
Took the gun out a couple of weeks ago for our late season but ended up taking one with my 41 mag. I prefer the 3 inch version that phasler set up. There for a while it was hard to find federal gold medel 2 3/4 hulls but either one is plenty accurate out of my ultra slug hunter. I was given a mossberg rifled slug barrel my 870 cantilever mount going to load up some more and try them. This barrel is vented and I had trouble with a moss 695 that was vented it would strip the side of the wad and let it gas cut accuracy was not very good. That was with my 2 3/4 load never tried the 3 inch in it.

[Ken30736]

I'm wondering how it would do if instead of filling the back with hotmelt glue. Cut the pin off flat that goes in the mold to form the back of the slug. Then we could get the added weight of the space filled out to flat with metal instead of glue. It might throw off the balance. I think I'm going to try to make another pin to try it so I dont have to change the original in case it doesnt work.

[Wyatt 525]

Saw a number of decent loads using 2 3/4" hulls. After several chats with leadhead 500 he is a firm believer that 3" is the way to go. Says the .25" jump using 2 3/4" hulls in a 3" chamber will start to strip wads at the get go. Gonna focus my efforts on the 3" hulls at this point for the 100 yard groups.

[Ken30736]

Saw a number of decent loads using 2 3/4" hulls. After several chats with leadhead 500 he is a firm believer that 3" is the way to go. Says the .25" jump using 2 3/4" hulls in a 3" chamber will start to strip wads at the get go. Gonna focus my efforts on the 3" hulls at this point for the 100 yard groups.

My 870 rifled barrel doesn't have that problem. the chamber is smooth tapered down to the rifled part of the barrel. doesn't have the sharp lip like the smooth bore.

[longbow]

I have never seen a sharp lipped forcing cone in a smoothbore. Generally they have a very gentle conical taper to them. A sharp lip would be very detrimental to shot patterns and wads.

[Ken30736]

I have never seen a sharp lipped forcing cone in a smoothbore. Generally they have a very gentle conical taper to them. A sharp lip would be very detrimental to shot patterns and wads.

you are correct. I checked my smooth bore and it has a cone like taper also. I was thinking it was sharper when I looked before.
I don't see how it would make any difference between 2.75" and 3".

[michiganmike]

I shoot the Lyman 525 gr. slug in a Remington 870 with a rifled barrel. The key to good accuracy in my opinion is firing the Lyman sabot slug in a rifled barrel.

I use the purest lead I can buy locally which is lead pipe from a local salvage yard. Lansing, MI was replacing its old lead pipes and I bought a couple hundred pounds. Its not pure lead, as the slugs average 490 gr.

Even though it likely makes little difference, I fire slugs that are +/- 2 grains. I am semi-retired so I have the time and it pleases me to eliminate as many variables as possible.

Velocity is between 1250 and 1350 fps. depending upon the powder. I primarily use data from Lyman's shotgun reloading manual. I use 1X fired Winchester AA hulls and Winchester shotgun primers.

Reloading the Lyman Sabot is simplicity itself. Just follow the directions in the Lyman manual. Use the prescribed powder and the wad it specifies. Crimp and fire. Easy peasy.

Blue Dot 45 grains =good accuracy, but recoil is stout.
Herco 25 grains gave me 4 shots touching at 25 yards when I was sighting in a new scope. Recoil was manageable.
Universal 25-27 grains yields good accuracy at 50 yards (3" diamater group). Recoil was manageable.
I had a pound of Tite Wad and the canister listed a 1 ounce (486 gr.) shot load using 18 grains. I loaded up 10 to try out. Haven't done so yet.
Velocity should be around 1250 fps.

The above is not exact or complete data, but it will give some idea of what the Lyman Sabot will do in a rifled barrel.

If you like the Lyman sabot round enough, you may wish to consider buying a rifled barrel.

Also,I bought the Lee Forester slug mould and made some for my son's smooth bore. But he rarely has time to hunt and I never ordered the other components needed (shot cards?) Anyway, I have some, maybe 20-25. I will send them to you to try out in your smooth bore if you are interested. Just pay the postage (USPS). P.M. me if you want them.

I rely primarily on salvaged lead alloy for my rifle and shotgun. But I plan on buying some pure lead from Roto Metals to see if that affects accuracy.

Hope this helps,

MichiganMike

[longbow]

Well, that jump to the forcing cone can allow "things" to happen. Not only does a 2 3/4" hull leave that extra 1/4" in a 3" chamber but then there is the long tapered forcing cone. There is time and space there for slugs to tilt a bit if not on a solid wad column. Also, a hollow base slug can obturate to fill the chamber then hit the forcing cone and have to swage down.

If having a gap and tapered entry to a barrel was a good thing then rifles and handguns would have just that. Generally best accuracy is achieved with rifles when the boolit is touching or just shy of the rifling. I have been told by one guy who has a lot of experience and owns several custom slug guns that eliminating the forcing cone and having a more rifle like entry to the bore gives better accuracy with shotgun slugs too ~ for rifled gun.

Anyway, I have had slugs tilt before entering the bore as evidenced by flattened ribs at the nose on one side and base diagonally opposite if the wad column has not been solid enough.

For the most part I have gotten best slug accuracy when slugs are loaded into standard shotcups which of course have the attached cushion leg and provide a sabot like support at firing. This is with smoothbore guns.

There's lots to getting this right and getting good and consistent accuracy... at least with smoothbores. I think rifled guns tend to be easier to work with to achieve decent accuracy but everything still plays a part ~ hull type and quality, wad and wad/slug fit to bore, crimp type and quality and of course powder type and charge.

Longbow

[OldAndArmed]

Have been loading around with this 525gn Lyman for the past three years! I have Mossberg 930 spx, and a SarArms sa, both gas op. The Mossy a smooth bore and the Sar smooth with a Carlson's Bennell mobile pattern rifled choke, neither would pattern well with any of various loads I tried. I accquired a Girsan mc312 (Benelli clone) and mounted the rifled choke, BOOM, 3 shot 2" group at 50yds!!! Examined spent DRF3-12(Fed 12S3) wads with "NO" damage to petals! My only guess is that the gas ports are messing with the petals! OK, slugs are filled with GE silicone caulk and smoothed even while wet, loaded with the DRF3-12 wad over 28.5gn LongShot in primed 2 3/4" Fiocchi hulls. I am one happy guy!! Might want to give it a try.

[Hogtamer]

Old and armed.....me too, and welcome. You've discovered one of the zillion variables in this wonder world of shotgun slug loads. Nice results! Of course without pics it didn't happen!

[toallmy]

I see I am not the only one researching on some slug loads .hehehe

[copdills]

this is a great thread , Thanks

[TheDoctor]

Anyone try one of these yet? Just found out about it yesterday

http://mp-molds.com/index.php/e-shop/molds/shot-gun-molds/mp-12ga-525-wad-slug

Seems he makes them in wad and full bore versions.

[Smoke4320]

I have one 4 cavity Brass.. Casts great

out of a DP-12 18" smoothbore Double barrel pump I am getting 3"-4" groups at 50 yds
open sights .. Some of the size is because this gun has a horrible 16LB trigger pull..
Something I will work one after deer season

[Plate plinker]

Oh boy this is scary I am just starting into this slug venture. Seems I may have a leg up with a rifled barrel.
I need to hit a 6X10 steel plate at 100 yards. Wondering if this will work out.

[toallmy]

I think you can 6 by 10 with a rifled barrel , just remember the faster they go the more they push back .

[Plate plinker]

212654

Fired from my 11-87 with a rifled Barrel at 105 yards. AA Hull waa12r wad and 38 grs of blue dot. No bags just leaned against by truck and let it rip. The flier was me rushing the shot. Bottom two were 4” apart.

I think this is going to work out just fine.

[Plate plinker]

212693

Same load, same everything except 870 with irons. The 870 has a mossberg rifled barrel as well.

[mehavey]

About as far as I'm gonna push it.... :;-)

https://s9.postimg.org/4hj9b33sv/REM_870_Express_Tactical_A-_TAC_Rifled_Choke75.jpg

[KIngair001]

About as far as I'm gonna push it.... :;-)

https://s9.postimg.org/4hj9b33sv/REM_870_Express_Tactical_A-_TAC_Rifled_Choke75.jpg

Impressive !

[Hogtamer]

pretty sporty there mehavey. No hard card under slug, no filling in cavity? Scoped?

[mehavey]

Wad column/hollow base left as-is in the pic Hogtamer.
(I did put an old 1-3x Weaver that I had laying around in a sock drawer onto the rail)

See https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6506653#post6506653
(I picked up an additional rifled barrel for it from Brownells)

[MOA]

212941
212942
Well everyone seems to have decent results with some tweaking, and passable without for close in shots. I'm going to try these in a mosssberg 9200 with a rifled barrel and 2.5 scope. Win AA hull, WAA12F114 wad, Win 209 primer, 25.0 grains of Herco. Half the loads have a 12 ga. over shot card used under the sabot, the other half do not.

[longbow]

mehavey:

Are those soft lead or WW?

I haven't shot Lyman sabot slugs but have seen them on the range when I am looking for my slugs and/or boolits. Any I have found cast of soft lead have collapsed skirts. Not an issue if they collapse the same and are consistent but it seems to me a harder alloy would be better unless the collapse also causes outward growth (obturation) for engagement of the rifling.

I've been a bit curious about that.

Longbow

[mehavey]

Pure lead.
I haven't played the water-jug game (yet) -- assuming that's
really the only way recover mostly non-deformed results

[longbow]

Deep snow is the best I have found but of course timing is everything! One has to shoot in winter and have at least 3' to 4' of snow... which we usually get.

Water jugs with a bucket of rags behind is next best in my experience. Pure lead will likely distort hitting water jugs but better than nothing. I always look for wads too. Wad condition is always informative of what is going on at ignition and in the bore.

[Boomer81]

How tight do you find the wad/slug combo pushing through a rifled barrel?

I am working on a slug load for my mossy 500 rifled barrel and have tried the follwing wads with the lyman 525

Claybuster windjammer
Claybuster copy of 12s3
Winchester AA12 white

So far each combo is tight as all heck to push through my barrel with a wooden dowel. Like both arms pulling the barrel down with the dowel resting on the ground. And using a ton of force. The combo pushes through but is it supposed to require a TON of effort?

Ive also shot with the windjammer clone (with 35gr of longshot in a gun club hull and 209 primer) and my accuracy was all over the place even at 25yrds. The recovered wads were obliterated. Petals gone and the gas seal mangled. Like it was blown to bits.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2qlwy8x.jpg
I pushed the same combos through my turkey barrel (with imp cyl and mod chokes) and the aa12 wad was still tight but the windjammers and 12s3 were loose in the barrel but tightened up at the choke.

Is this normal out of a rifled barrel?

[Boomer81]

After speaking with hogtamer he advised me to stop using that setup because the wad is showing excessive damage. He posted a recipe that gives him good results and i am attempting to track down the components. Seems to be a tough challenge since i am in liberal gun fearing canada and sometimes my reloading options are second only to yman lol

While i was checking load datas for several hulls and wads i came across the hdgdon load data pdf. As i was looking something stood out.

Here is the one i just dloaded showing remington gun clubs
http://i64.tinypic.com/10z7ak5.png

Now look at the options for the longshot powder with the win 209 primer. 2 loads. One with the WAA12 wad and one with rem r12l wad.

Only two options with that hull/powder/primer combo.

Now you might wonder "well boomer, why would you use a windjammer wad with that combo when its clearly not one of the options??" Well it is an easy enough answer. The load data i was using was from THIS hodgdon reloading page
http://i65.tinypic.com/dff4fl.png

They removed two recipes for that hull/longshot powder/win 209 primer. (One being my windjammer destroyer lol)

So they clearly found that all those loads they previously listed were terrible and took them all out except 2 combinations!

I am assuming this is normal for them to publish loads then remove them after they turn out to be ****?

[longbow]

Yeah those wads are pretty mangled!

Have you tried the Lyman Slug reloading data for the 525 gr sabot slug? There are lots of published load recipes for that slug.

Are you filling the cavity with anything? Using a nitro card wad under the slug? Hard to tell from what's left of the wad but you want to keep the wad from blowing into the cavity.

I am in Canada too and know your frustration in trying to find reloading components but there are sources. Try Bilozir Fine Guns in DeWinton Alberta. He is a BPI distributor and can get most stuff.

By the way, the data you are showing here is for 1 1/8 oz. shot loads where that slug is closer to 1 1/4 oz. so that may make a difference too... though slugs supposedly generate less pressure than equivalent weight of shot due to less bore friction. Still it is best to use slug specific load data and there is a lot for that slug.

Can't answer your question on push through resistance for rifled gun but I'd think that if the slug/wad combo mic's at groove diameter to a little over groove diameter you'd be good. If too loose things won't go well so an easy push through would be bad. Not sure if yours is maybe too tight though? I'm a smoothbore shooter (so far anyway).

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

Don't think anyone has loaded and shot every "book" load. They are generated by some program that on paper means everything should work. Often the fit doesn't though they may be safe. The Rem wads have an internal ridge that won't work with slugs. The Win wads may be ok but not the long ones.

[Boomer81]

Thanks guys i will keep digging. So many posts and so many variables i appreciate the help!

I am planning on using these hunting deer at most 50 yards so anything close will be good enough for me. The worst part is not getting much time to go out and test firing the loads since i shoot at a friends place out of town.

I will see what i can test out and return when i can with findings.

My setup for the lymans are epoxy filled which ads a few grains to each so to lighten things up to be closer to the 1 1/8 i will use something else or try a nitro card. The nitro card pushes up the slug so i am assuming the driving band needs to make as much contact with the wad petals as possible.

I will send an email to that bpi dealer and see what i can get that i cant source myself.

The adventure continues!

[Armilite]

3/4 oz = 328.125 gr
1.0 oz = 437.5 gr
1.125 oz = 492.1875 gr
1.25 oz = 546.875 gr

IF, a Lyman 12ga Sabot Slug is supposed to be 525 gr = 1.2 oz!

My Questions:

1. Is the Lyman 12ga Slug 525gr made with Wheel Weights, or Lead Pipe or Plumbers Lead, etc?

2. Has anyone used this 12 Gauge Sabot Slug Bullet Mold Svarog Match (Lyman style)?

3. Wheel Weights are the easiest to find. With Lyman Sabot Mold what does the Slug Weigh made with Wheels Weights?

[Blood Trail]

My pet load is 25 grs of Herco in a WAA12 wad and STS hull. Great accuracy at 50 yards.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210115/9786034fa73f5405895beaffd31c1c0e.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rflshootr]

My pet load is 25 grs of Herco in a WAA12 wad and STS hull. Great accuracy at 50 yards.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210115/9786034fa73f5405895beaffd31c1c0e.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What primer are you using?

[Hogtamer]

I learned a lot since then…
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?359321-Lyman-525-for-Boomer81

[Blood Trail]

What primer are you using?

Winchester 209.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rflshootr]

I'm green on this slug reloading. I have 525 Lyman slugs, STS hulls, Herco powder, Claybuster SW250-12 slug wads and Federal 209A primers which from what I've read are hot compared to Winchester 209's. I have no idea where to start charge wise. How much can you safely back off on the powder? Do you increase the charge in .5 grain increments? I've reloaded rifle and pistol ammo for 45 years but never messed with shotgun stuff. School me.

[toallmy]

Can you find any 1 1/4 field loads with the primer and powder you have ? I would try to stack a load to see what would fit , I load a lot of similar slugs with herco in win / rem hulls but with rem or win primers in a clay-buster wad .
I see some similar loads in the Lyman 5th edition 1-1/4 field load using Herco 23-24.5 with mag primers pressure around 11000 psi . I can't safely tell you what you should do besides saying follow the book , but around 25 grains of herco is what I use with standard primers .
Be safe

[longbow]

I'd be cross referencing with several reloading manuals that show pressure with various powder charges and primers to try to find same primer and powder for the payload in your hull.

According to Tom Armbrust primer changes can affect pressure by up to about 3000 PSI so if you start with an 10,000 PSI recipe and add 3000 PSI you are into dangerous territory. If you start with an 8000 PSI recipe and pressure goes up 3000 PSI you are still safe. If it goes down by 3000 PSI you might get a blooper so not unsafe pressure wise, just check the bore to make sure everything left or that you know it didn't so can clear the bore.

http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

Note that crimp depth also has a significant effect on pressure so if you have a hot primer and a deep crimp both are pushing pressure up. The example here shows an increase of 2400 PSI when crimp depth is increased from 0.050" (about standard) to 0.090".

I normally load slugs in straight walled hulls as there seems to be more load data and straight walled hulls are all similar except base wad thickness.

If you don't have loading manuals you should get at least one and preferably several. There are on-line reloading resources provided by powder manufacturers as well though slug data tends to be a bit scarce.

A safe approach is to use birdshot recipes for equal weight payload and sub the slug and wad using fillers to get to proper crimp height. It is generally accepted that slugs have less bore friction than shot so pressures run lower for slug replacing birdshot. The resulting load will not be as high performance as a dedicated slug load but will be safe to shoot. There are many more birdshot recipes than slug recipes and a slug at 1200 or so FPS is a formidable projectile.

As for your questions:

- How much can you safely back off on the powder?

The simple answer is until you get a blooper or at least erratic ignition. Depends partly on the powder burn rate. Fast powders seem to work reasonably well for reduced load where slow powders do not. In my experience anyway.

- Do you increase the charge in .5 grain increments?

NO! Well, without significant experience I'll say that you cannot safely work up a load like with brass cartridge reloading. Not only are there more variables but there are no reliable pressure signs. The first pressure sign I am aware of is sticky extraction and that generally means you are well over pressure. Some hulls have softer metal heads so show sticky extraction at lower pressure. Some primers are soft enough to flatten some but I wouldn't rely on that.

You should be using published pressure tested recipes from a loading manual or known safe source. I don't worry about substituting wads, as long as they are similar, or payload (as in slug replacing shot or replacing a slug with same weight slug of different design).

For your 525 gr. Lyman sabot slug you will find quite a lot of load info here in this thread and in manuals so that is a good thing!

Play but play safe!

Longbow

[Rflshootr]

That's a very eye opening article to say the least. Now if I could just find some Win 209's.:cry:

[W.R.Buchanan]

Be patient they are out there. But you will have to act quickly when they are found cuz they won't be there for long.

BPI posted Cheddite 209 Primers limit 5,000 per customer at 10:00 AM one day last week. They were gone by 10:10 AM !!!

That's where the competition is at right now. Same with shot. My Big Shot Supplier in Azusa CA had #8 and #9 shot available last week on Wednesday. Some friends drove down which was a 2 hour drive from here. All 3 tons of it was gone in the 2 hours it took them to drive there! And they were pissed! adding insult to injury they were getting $70 a bag!

I will not do that drive unless I can buy the stuff over the phone, and pay for it, and then pick it up when I drive down. Just the fuel to drive 120 miles down and 120 miles back thru the worst traffic on the planet is worth $50!

Randy

[longbow]

You might take a look here:

https://www.titanreloading.com/image/data/PDF/12gauge.pdf

Lee has "generic" load data that is for shot but not too picky about hull or primer as they are not high performance loads. I see Herco listed for 1 1/4 oz. shot using any plastic hull of one piece construction (compression formed and tapered) or with plastic base wad, and using Lee bushing #.163 for powder charge (23.8 grs. of Herco). There is no primer type or brand stipulated though I would assume non-magnum. Since slugs generate less pressure than same weight birdshot you should be fine with your Lyman slugs at 525 gr. (1.2 oz.). If in doubt, drop the powder charge by a couple of grains.

Double check my numbers but that looks like it should get you going with what you have.

Longbow

[toallmy]

I thought the Lyman slug was closer to a 1-1/4 ounce then a 1-1/2 ounce .

[longbow]

It is... 525 grs. = 1.2 oz. So just a hair less than 1 1/4 oz. (1.25 oz.)

[Hanzy4200]

Hoping to take delivery of my mold this week. It's been almost two weeks since I ordered from B.P., and that's the recent turnaround time. I'm excited, as I finally sourced 2 lbs each of Blue Dot and Herco at a local show yesterday. Should open up a lot more load options. Eager to play.