Question regarding cast load using Missouri .38 Match Boolit

[viper7342]

I have been reloading for several years, but this will be my first foray into the world of cast lead boolits, I am looking to load some of the aforementioned boolits, which according to the manufacturer have a BHN of 12, for a Smith & Wesson Model 60 Snubbie, for use as a practice/training round for my mother, who isn't really a gun person, but has had this weapon for several years, and as far as I know, has either not fired it much or has never fired it. Knowing these weapons as I do, it would not have been my first choice as a defensive weapon for her, but, that's what she bought it for and we gun afficianados know that it's always best to let each person choose a gun that fits them. enough about that, I'm looking for a loading using this boolit, that will produce minimal recoil and muzzle blast. and as little leading as I can possibly get, using either Alliant Unique or Win 231 Powder. My Lee manual lists the Unique starting load at 4.0 Grains and the max at 4.3 Grains, While it Lists the 231 at 4.0 and 4.5 respectively would this data be ok to use with this boolit for the above purposes? Before anyone mentions it I know to start at the minimum and work up watching for signs of excessive pressure until I find a load that is both safe and accurate. I would just like to know what those of you in the know think as far as whether I should expect leading issues with these loadings.. Also, Like I said before I'm a complete newbie as far as using cast Boolits is concerned, so any pointers anyone can share would be greatly appreciated. I appologize for the long post.

[williamwaco]

I like 3.5 gr Bulls Eye oe AA No.2 or 4.0 grains Unique

[rintinglen]

I have loaded similar boolits much lighter, 3.5 grains of Unique, 3.2 grains of WW-231, 2.7 grains of Red Dot, 2.8 grains of Bullseye. Crimp well in the groove and all should be well, though a bhn of 12 is pretty hard for low velocity plinkers.
What I'd recommend for your mom's gun, though, is try some Missouri Cowboy 125 grain TCFP boolits. 36.99 plus shipping from Graf & Sons, loaded over 3.3 grains of WW-231 or 2.9 grains of Bullseye or Red Dot. Lighter bullets mean lower recoil. They will hit low, so keep targets big and close, but light recoil makes 38's much more friendly for weaker, smaller hands.
When My daughters were little, I cast and loaded thousands of 358-101 and 358-345 boolits, 75 grain WC and 115 grain SWC, they were loaded over 2.5 grains of Bullseye and for close-in confidence building with very low recoil, they were the berries. At the time, I could load them for less than cost of CCI 22's. (Ahh, those glorious days when a tire dealer would GIVE you wheel weights...)

[viper7342]

rintinglen,
First off, I'd like to thank both you and williamwaco for your replies, then, I have a question, and that is, what OAL would be good for the Missouri 125 grain TCFP boolits you mentioned? also, are these the max loads you recommend for this boolit? I know I should look for these loads on my own, but my Lee manual only lists HP38, Universal,Titegroup, and Clays under a 125 Grain lead bullet (boolit)?. I know that Win 231 and HP38 are supposedly one and the same and it lists 1.445" as the minimum OAL for this combination, with a starting charge of 3.8 grains and never exceed of 4.8 grains. considering these things, would this be ok for a light load, substituting Win 231 for HP38?

[felix]

You are OK using WW231 or HP38 between 3.5 and 4.3 grains looking for an accuracy load, no matter which lot of either you have. ... felix

[viper7342]

Thank you felix. I'm new to the cast boolit arena, so keep the replies coming.

[cbrick]

As for your leading question, 12 BHN is about as hard as you need to go. Your talking light loads so any possible leading will be an issue of bullet fit and a properly dimensioned revolver. Unless your familiar with throat slugging and prepared to do that the very best way to find out is to load it and shoot it.

My best guess is that it will be fine, should there be a leading issue pay close attention to where the leading is, ie, chambers, throats, forcing cone, beginning of bore or end of bore. Where the leading is could be a big clue as to what caused it and how to fix it. Then come back here and ask questions.

I also agree with the suggestion of light boolits for Mom. No need to install a recoil flinch in her that will be very difficult to get rid of.

Rick

[viper7342]

Thanks for all the info guys, I ordered the Missouri 125 Grain TCFP boolits, I'm going to try them out and see what kind of luck I have with them, I'll let you know as soon as I can manage to get her out to try them, It may be awhile, as it's winter time outside and getting mom out of the house can be quite a challenge at times since she retired.

[rintinglen]

Hey, good luck. The Lee recommendation for OAL will be fine. The only problem that you may encounter is if you go too light, you might stick a boolit in the barrel. I have used many thousands of similar loads with complete Satisfaction. Do a search for Hogdon powder, they have an excellent, free, on-line load data bank of tested loads using not only their powders, but also Winchester and IMR as well. Generally, Load data, especially starting load data, that is safe for a jacketed bullet will be safe for a similar weight cast boolit, however, Hogdon Lists 125 grain lead boolit loads, so there is no need to extrapolate.

[cbrick]

Do a search for Hogdon powder, they have an excellent, free, on-line load data bank of tested loads using not only their powders, but also Winchester and IMR as well.

Hhmmm . . . I think if you look into it you'll find Winchester and IMR are both owned by Hodgdon, those are their powders. :mrgreen:

Rick

[rintinglen]

Hey Rick, Good Morning.
As I understand it, they are the "exclusive Distributors" for those products, but I am open to correction, don't own stock in any of them. I do see that the labels have the same address now. Is Hogdon becoming the Standard Oil of Gun Powder These Days? Will there be anti-trust legislation forthcoming? Stay tuned.

[viper7342]

Thanks to everyone who has replied. I don't know why I didn't think of the Hodgdon data, I already had it bookmarked on here. it lists 3.8 grains as a starting load, but this only produces 10,300 CUP, which isn't enough for a boolit with a BHN of 12, so I think I'll start out with about 4.1-4.2 grains of Win 231 just to get the pressure up some and hopefully avoid leading issues. does this sound like a good idea,as long as I keep an eye out for any signs of pressure issues just in case?

[fecmech]

Viper--At this stage don't get hung up on all the BS about pressure to expand the bullet yada,yada, etc. Just load ,shoot, repeat. You are trying to turn something that is really quite simple into something that is complicated. Forget Richard Lee and his pressure chart for now!

[cbrick]

fecmec is right. Remember this is for Mom, start lite & don't get hung up on all the extras. Load it lite & shoot it, see what it does. As long as the boolit fits your revolver Mom will be a happy shooter and you will be a happy gun cleaner. :mrgreen:

Rick

[rintinglen]

Light loads, big targets, close range=confidence on part of new shooter. When the gun doesn't hurt to shoot, and the target has holes that resemble a group, it's fun for the new shooter. My girls used to love popping balloons with their light loads.
And when it comes to Richard Lee and his pressure chart, simply forget it all together. It is closer superstition than science, despite the seemingly precise numbers.

[Wayne Smith]

You don't need to expand the boolit if it fits in the first place! Don't worry about minimum pressure issues if the boolit fits. If it doesn't the location of the leading will tell you how it doesn't fit.

[rond]

I would go with a 148 HBWC of pure lead and Titegroup for that gun, much easier for your mom to learn to shoot and all she needs for self defense.

[viper7342]

Viper--At this stage don't get hung up on all the BS about pressure to expand the bullet yada,yada, etc. Just load ,shoot, repeat. You are trying to turn something that is really quite simple into something that is complicated. Forget Richard Lee and his pressure chart for now!

fecmech and all others,
I wasn't referring to anything written by Richard Lee, I was simply referring to the formula Missouri Bullets uses on their website under the Technical tab, to explain how to figure out what BHN is needed for a specific CUP. this info is located here. http://www.missouribullet.com/technical.php

[Pitchnit]

If mom is a new shooter and possibly recoil sensitive you can go pretty low on the charge. Just MAKE SURE every shot makes a hole!!! If not, clear the weapon and use a piece of small dowel to MAKE SURE the boolit is not lodged in the barell. My wife was really gun shy and I had to start here out with wax bullets. Be careful!