I'm new here, and there is a lot to learn, so help me!!!

[mike_kaleigh]

i have been reading on this forum for a few weeks and there is so much info, but i have been reloading for a 380,9mm, 40, and 45acp for years with lee tumble lube boolits and tumble lube and had really good success. heck my 9mm has never seen a factory round. but i have a ruger gunsite rifle in 308 1in10, and tried reloading for it with pb, now the problems started. i just want a low power round to have fun with the kids. i had a 160 grain tumble lube .312 mold, sized to 311. the front of the bullet is .309 and the driving band at the rear is .311. (no gascheck) i shot 30 rounds loaded with 10 grains of unique for a speed of 1300fps. the first 15 were accurate then it went south. at the end i noticed some leading the last 6 inchs of the barrel. the lead was strait ww and very hard. but i am guessing the boolit ran out of lube at the end of the barrel. so what do i do. i was thinking maybe i need to lube them heaver, but also that i may need to get a lubesizer and go with normal grease grove boolits with rifles. but it is x-mas time so maybe i could get the lee TL309-230-5R to work til i get the funds for a lube sizer.

so help get me on track

[MtGun44]

Sounds like running out of lube. First try a GC, then try a design with more lube capacity
or double dip the ones you have. Not a fan of the mule snot lubing system, so I will
leave improvements in it to folks that know, not me.

But, it is very common to have poor results in rifles without GCs, esp with GC
designs. Ben has recently had really good results with a Lee GC design that he
removed the GC shank from and made a big full diam base band. So they can work
for sure. I am pretty sure he had a conventional lube groove design.

10 gr of Unique is a great place to start. Try 16 gr 2400 or 13 gr Red Dot, these
are also "known good" loads for bottleneck rifle cartridges with boolits, altho
most do use GCs in rifles. I never us GCs in pistol ammo any more, and may
eventually learn to do without for moderate rifle loads. So far my rifle experience
is largely with GC designs, except for some of the old timers like .38-55 and
.45-70, etc.
Bill

[Elkins45]

Plain based rifle bullets tend to do better with slower powders. You might also think about a gas checked bullet. But it's easy to try a few with a heavier line coat and see what happens, but most people use too much to begin with.

Just out of curiosity, where does one find a 160 grain plain based tumble lube 30 cal bullet mold?

[mike_kaleigh]

elkins45, it is a gas check bullet without gas check, guess i will try more lube and see what happens

[mpmarty]

Then try a gas check. Although I don't use or like them from what I've heard they do help in small bore rifle cartridges. Are you using plain LLA if so try mixing in some JPW and see if that helps. I tumble lube with a mix of LLA and JPW.

[runfiverun]

your boolit didn't run out of lube.
it doesn't work like that.

[M Hicks]

your boolit didn't run out of lube.
it doesn't work like that.

I agree with that. Have you tried to slug your barrel and see what the groove diameter is? At 1300 fps I wouldn't think you would need a gas check. You said you didn't have a lube sizer but you are sizing them. I assume it is with one of the Lee push through kits. Are you tumble lubing after you size them?

[cbrick]

Mike, welcome to CastBoolits,

I'm no fan of the mule snot lubing either and even less so in rifles. I suggest a conventional lube groove boolit and if it is a gas check design use the check. At 1300 fps there should't be a leading issue but I guess too many corners can be cut and end up with leading.

You said the alloy was straight WW and "very hard". Very hard can be a relative term and mean anything. Very hard as compared to what? If your alloy is in fact "very hard" it could be the source of your leading. Too hard is the cause of more leading and inaccuracy problems than is too soft. Straight air cooled WW should be about 11-12 BHN and work well so I'm confused by your very hard statement. I shoot air cooled WW in my 308 to 2,000 fps with zero leading.

Rick

[popper]

Drop down a few grains with the unique or use GC & slower powder. You are running out of pressure, not lube.

[Jim]

55905

[mike_kaleigh]

i was water quenching them, and what do you mean i ran out of pressure, i assume you mean if pressure drops off before the boolit exits the barrel and it is coasting down the barrel it will cause leading???? how does that work. and the barrel measured 308, but i will slug it again to make sure.

[runfiverun]

yes that's what he means.
there's a point where the gas volume can't keep up with the boolits speed.
i call it the relaxation point.
the boolit is allowed to relax from the pressure it's like exceeding the alloy's plastic state only in reverse.
it's usually indicated by a smear of lube,or quite often a grey wash of antimony is allowed to form.

[mike_kaleigh]

if i am looking for a powder that is slower but still ignites easily for a reduced charge would reloader 7 work?

[runfiverun]

if you are going to stay without the gas checks you are going to be handicapped by velocity and a few other things going on.
i personally would not water drop and try for more like 1200 fps.
or put the gas checks on and go for more like 1900 fps.
rl-7 would work in the 1900 fps range so would about anything from 2400 through 4064.

[M Hicks]

Jim,

Are those numbers the charge of Bullseye you used for those 308 loads? That has to be a nice and mild load. The 2.4 looks pretty dang accurate. What type of velocity did you get?

[Boolseye]

Mike,
Welcome! I shoot that boolit in .308 Win and 7.62x54R with no problems. I suggest you install gas checks.
16 grains of 2400, I can shoot 4" groups offhand all day at 50 yds. .311 should be fat enough, but you may want to slug your barrel to check. I think Lee makes a .312 push-through, and they def. make a .314 (i use it for the Russian gun). Lube them, with 45-45-10 or pure mule snot, size and/or install gas checks, lube again. I will be surprised if you continue to have problems.
-jp