357446 vs De-Horned 358156

[asp]

From what I can tell, 358156 looks identical to 357446 aside from the GC feature in the 358156. 358156 is known to be a great boolit while I have heard of people having a headache getting the 357446 to shoot accurately. Do de-horned 358156 typically shoot well? If all things remain the same (alloy, size, lube, powder, charge weight, etc) why would the 357446 group poorly and the de-shanked 358156 work well?

For those that haven't seen it: http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ByCaliber/Bare%20Bottomed%20358156HP.pdf

[MT Gianni]

The 357446 I owned was undersized.

[beagle]

My de-horned 358156HP shoots very well....the 357446 shoots its normal nasty, flier giving self.....even hollow pointed./beagle

[asp]

My de-horned 358156HP shoots very well....the 357446 shoots its normal nasty, flier giving self.....even hollow pointed./beagle

I'm not surprised. The 'why' is what's got me.

I just won this auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/281034624127?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

And I'll probably toss my 4 cavity 357446 back up on ebay where I got it. I'll at least give them a try first albeit without much hope.

[rintinglen]

Measure the bands on your boolits. My 357=446 seems to taper, with the front band being noticeably more narrow than the rear. My 358-156 has all bands of equal width.

[MT Gianni]

The question for me is Why Skeeter Skelton thought so much of this boolit. It must have been a different spec on the cherry that cut his.

[asp]

Who knows... From what I have read, even lapping the cavities larger doesn't help this boolit. Seems odd.

[rintinglen]

Skeeter swore by the 358-156 HP. I don't recall him singing the praises of the 357-446, though in Lyman's 1st Cast Bullet Handbook, it was said to be their most popular 357 bullet.

[beagle]

I've had several 357446s. Finally, I took one and experimented with it. First, I opened and widened the front driving band. No luck there. Then we opened all the driving bands to .362" and downsized, trying .356" through .359". Again, no luck. Then, we hollowpointed it and it still wouldn't shoot consistently. Then, I found it a new home.

The 357446 seems to shoot marginally well at .357 Mag velocities but you still get flyers. Drop any lower and from my experience, you get fliers even at 50 yards. I mean big, off the paper fliers and sometimes two out of a cylinder. Same at a 100 yards in plinking. I've tried it in many guns. A Model 28 Smith, a bull barrel Contender, several Blackhawks, a Model 15 Smith and a M1894 .357 Mag carbine with the same results.

The only pistol I have come close to getting good results with this design is in a 4" Colt Python that likes .356"bullets and I'd still get the occasional flier with it.

Must be something in the aerodynamics of that design and it looks so darn good too.

So, I moved on. Life's too short to spend it shooting an unreliable design./beagle

[Rangefinder]

I have a 446 1-cav, but haven't had the time to start playing with it yet. However, from what I understand on this one, it's really a hotrod boolit that only likes to go really fast. One way to find out, but I'll get to that after I get a few other things wrapped up that have been lagging.

[GP100man]

There`s so many different versions of the 446 it ain`t funny

here`s 2 of the 1s I have , the 1 with the wide front band does good in the GPs ,but the other likes the gas to the floor , anything less & it gets squrrielly.

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/102_0489.jpg

I have an older 446 with the wide band that Buckshot HPed & it`ll tolerate going slow to some extent but still the best above 1k.

[asp]

Mine looks like it has the one with the wider driving band. (below middle) At what distance does the lack of accuracy become apparent? I can make one ragged hole offhand at 7 yards with my S&W 586 and 358156 (no gc installed) over 3.3 gr Bullseye in a 38 spl case. Something tells me that I need to test the 357446 at 25 yards or so.

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy79/aspoirier/IMAG0841.jpg

[MT Gianni]

I don't consider anything inaccurate unless it doesn't group well @ 50 yards.

[asp]

For a revolver at 50 yards, what's considered an accurate group? Fist sized if using a rest?

[rintinglen]

3 moa at 50 yards is outstanding accuracy from a revolver. Even 6 moa is acceptable. That corresponds to 3 inch group, which despite the tiny groups shot with key boards on the internet, is pretty darned good for an iron sighted revolver.

[beagle]

It's fairly easy to test the accuracy of a bullet/load at 50 or a 100 yards is better. I've always done a lot of plinking....much of it at 100 yards. It's my favorite sport. A good clean berm is a must so that you can see the bullet strike easily.

If you plink at beverage cans at 100 yards using a sandbag, the bullet should strike in the vicinity of the can or in the can unless you call it out. Fliers are very easily detected at 100 yards. The distance magnifies the accuracy/inaccuracy of a load.

I've seen 357446 fliers deviate as much as two feet at 100 yards while my 358477 or 358429 loads normally manage to at least disturb the can.

Now, I'm not gonna blow smoke and tell you I can hit pop cans all day at 100 yards but this method will tell you two things quickly.

The first is how well you shoot and can call your shots.

The second is how accurate your load is.

If you can't shoot and have in accurate ammo, you're in a world of hurt and will prove nothing./beagle

[asp]

Thanks for the posts guys. I'll cast and load some and see what happens.

[MT Gianni]

Along with a fist sized group study the boolits impact on paper. Are the holes straight or do they show evidence of yaw or tumbling?

[asp]

I have to double check, but I'm pretty sure that both of the ranges I'm a member at don't allow pistol beyond 50 yards so I think that's what distance my testing will be occurring at. Most members at the range I shoot at this time of year can barely hit a silhouette target at 50 yards with their tacticool AR and are making patterns not groups at the 7 yard pistol range. They're more concerned about killing zombies and throwing hot lead downrange than shooting well and practicing the fundamentals. It stinks that there are so many rules and regs restricting those of us that actually know what they are doing. MA isn't exactly the most gun-friendly state.