Range diving. 186lbs

[Highway41]

Got off work a little earlier than usual last night and decided since it was so close to dark I'd run out to the range and see what kind of scrap I could pick up. Took a little 1 gallon bucket and picked up all the easy stuff, filled the bucket but it took about two hours. Got tired, not to mention cold (temps in the upper teens) and decided to call it a night.
Stopped by a convenience store to grab a drink and the clerks were talking about their cats. Cats?! What does that have to do with lead you ask... Well I headed straight to wally world, strolled to the pet department and purchased 2 cat litter scoops then grabbed a 5gal bucket and headed straight back to the range.
Two more hours work yielded a grand total of 186lbs (first small bucket included).


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[Highway41]

And I don't even have a furnace yet.

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[BACKTOSHOOTING]

Good thinking and nice haul !

[btroj]

Keep up the good work. I figure 30 to 50 pounds is a good trip to the range. I shoot some, pick some, then repeat. Key is to always bring more home than you took out.

[RG1911]

Okay, I'm confused. (An increasingly normal condition at my age.)

How do you scrounge lead at a range? The range I use has dirt berms and spent boolits and bullets are not visible.

Thanks,
Richard

[Down South]

A minow trap works well too. Scoop the dirt and lead in with a garden trowel or scooper or whatever you call it till half of the trap is about full, close it up and shake. Most of the dirt falls out through the mesh.

[Highway41]

RG1911 - where I'm at has been in drought conditions for a long time now. There are dirt berms where I scrounge but the shooters pulverise (?) the berm and then the wind exposes the lead. Picked up almost a gallon containers worth by hand ( could have easily gotten more).

Down South - great idea. I used to have a shaker box a long time ago for this purpose and am going to assemble another after work today. They increase the yield to work ratio to where it is really enjoyable.

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[possom813]

And I don't even have a furnace yet.

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Where at in Texas? I've got a smelter, furnace and molds for fishing weights and boolits that you can play with if you're close.

[Highway41]

Possum - pm sent.

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[btroj]

Pick up what You can see. Pistol berms are easier than rifle berms. Dry weather is best as the soil turns almost to dust which makes finding bullets easier. I find hat lightlyushing aside the top layer of dirt exposes a huge number of bullets. I also find a 44 mag shovel helps. Fire a fee rounds into the berm and many more bullets are brought to the surface.

[RG1911]

Gotta admit I never thought of a scoop and mesh as shooting supplies, but what the heck. I'll give it a try. Many thanks.

Richard

[btroj]

I don't use a scoop as my berm is clay. The wads of clay get picked up too and are a pain. We also seem to have a huge amount of clay pigeon debris on the berms as people like them for targets.

What I wouldn't give for a nice, sandy berm without all the other garbage on it. Use a seize and go to town.

[evan price]

+1 to that. Ohio clay soil clumps and won't sift. Got lucky this summer....we had a drought and the berms turned to baked clayy and pulverized. Used a stainless steel cat litter scoop to get over 800 pounds while the getting was good!

[Jal5]

I am thinking about drilling holes in a square edged shovel, something like a old coal shovel. With the holes, the dry dirt can fall out maybe? anyone ever done something like this?

[Highway41]

Jal5 - back in the day I originally started with a metal kitchen spaghetti strainer. Don't see why your plan won't work. But you can probably get a strainer at the dollar store (if you have one close).

Last night I cut and slapped together a couple of 2x4s into a frame about 2' square. Then nailed some 1/4" screen on one side "tada" a shaker box is born. I left two of the 2x's about 18" longer for handles. I'll add legs later.

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[Lizard333]

I have to hand pick everything. I live on an old volcanic mountain range and the burm we shoot into is an old cinder pot. Boolits and cinders are about the same size.

[btroj]

It is amazing how quickly the eyes and fingers learn to identify a bullet, pick it up, and verify it is lead based upon weight.

[DukeInFlorida]

http://youtu.be/i4Vo45UEMVA

[RoGrrr]

CHAPTER 1
What I'd heard and found to be true is that after the berm has dried out for several days following a hard rain, there's lots of lead lying there saying "pick me UP !"
So I did.

Like many of us, I picked up range turds by hand. But I realized there had to be a better way than what I was doing.
I don't have a picture of my hand to post.
I like Duke's machine but it's complex and I haven't gotten around to building anything that good yet. Also, I want something portable I can take with me to the range and scavenge before the shooting public shows up.

[RoGrrr]

CHAPTER 2
so I brought the garden soil sifter my Father made for my Mother when she was planting flowers. I never could bring myself to throw it away so I held on to it thru several moves and many years. It's made of 1/4" mesh but when you fill it with 10 Lbs of lead and dirt, well, you know the drill. It seemed to work reasonably well but was rickety so I designed something more substantial. Also I rake the lead down the slope so I can gather more of it in one shovel full, saving time before I become a target of the weekenders.

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[RoGrrr]

CHAPTER 3
Here is the short "ventilated shovel" I made out of 1\4" machine screen and some light angle iron. It's about 8 inches by 15 inches. It seemed to work well, or at least better than the rickety old wooden sifter.

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[Highway41]

I finally got around to building a sifter. Picked up some 1/4" wire screen. Cut up a 2x4 to make a frame about 2' square. Nailed the mesh securely to one side of the frame, and tada.
Course there's always the old stand by, a kitty litter pooper scooper.
I usually have the big sifter in the truck but I always leave one of the kitty scoops behind the seat.

[Wal']

I am thinking about drilling holes in a square edged shovel, something like a old coal shovel. With the holes, the dry dirt can fall out maybe? anyone ever done something like this?

Exactly what I use, but I used a angle grinder & cut 1/4 inch slots in the shovel, only thing different I would do is not use a such large shovel [coal shovel] as shaking the sand out by hand with a large shovel gets a little tiring after a while. [smilie=b: ;-)

[RoGrrr]

CHAPTER 4
Since I had a working "proof of concept" machine screen, I needed something even better so I could justify and feed the BULLET MASTER I recently bought. I decided to build this sifter box which is about 8x8x15 and be able to shake it easier to sift out more of the dirt I gather with the lead. It didn't take long for me to realize I needed handles (this is actually CHAPTER 4A but I didn't take any pics of it without them) on it so I could put some wrist twisting/rolling action (much like cooks do when they flip eggs or pancakes) into the shaking motion to get more of the dirt out.
I manage to get anywhere from 1 to 2 5-gallon buckets each about 3/4 full in about half hour, throw them into the trunk of my car and "exit stage left" before the range opens.

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Since I have this stage complete, I'm now building a smelting pot with a bottom pour valve thanks to ideas from shadowcaster and kenjuudo so I can make about 70 Lbs of lead into ingots without having to lift and dump that 3 quart iron pot into my cornbread ingot moulds. I'm taking my time in the machine shop and will be posting some pics to show my progress. It might be spring before I get everything I have planned built. I plan to put my ingot moulds on rails so I won't drop/spill them and burning the crep out of myself.

BTW, The angle iron I used is 1" (25mm) and only about 1/16" (1.7mm) thick. The rim of the sifter box is 3/8" (9mm) square tubing. The whole thing weighs about **5 Lbs (2.25kg)** and is quite stiff and strong enough that I can stand on it without crushing it. I could powder coat it but,,,, Nahh



** - I just weighed it and it's about 9 Lbs

[RoGrrr]

Exactly what I use, but I used a angle grinder & cut 1/4 inch slots in the shovel, only thing different I would do is not use a such large shovel [coal shovel] as shaking the sand out by hand with a large shovel gets a little tiring after a while. [smilie=b: ;-)

WAL
If I might offer a suggestion here:
Rather than using a coal shovel and cutting slots in it, which is labor intensive, why not get a pitch fork and weld some machine screen on it along with some light weight angle iron as I show in my CHAPTER 3 here. If you can't weld, pay someone to do it for you. Far easier than grinding slots....

[Wal']

RoGrrr............Hadn't thought of using a pitch fork.........good thinking.........lightweight.

[RoGrrr]

RoGrrr............Hadn't thought of using a pitch fork.........good thinking.........lightweight.

Nothing better than the sharing of ideas to inspire more ideas.
But as our horsehole haff-breeed president says - YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT !

But, being in OZ, you might not have heard that like of crep from him. We get way too much of him....

[Wal']

No, we have as much the same problems here, a female red headed ranga for an excuse for a leader.

Hopefully you guy's up there will prevail with your 2nd Amendment, if not the rest of us are going under as well

"Ranga: A person with red hair. Australian slang term of unknown origin; possibly shortened from “orangutan"

[Highway41]

RoGrrr - great basket sifter, wondering about using aluminum angle pieces instead of steel for the frame. The weight savings would make the work a little easier.??
Also how about adding some type of shovel like piece to one of the long sides to eliminate the need to carry a shovel?

[RoGrrr]

RoGrrr - great basket sifter, wondering about using aluminum angle pieces instead of steel for the frame. The weight savings would make the work a little easier.??
Also how about adding some type of shovel like piece to one of the long sides to eliminate the need to carry a shovel?

Tx
The thing about using aluminum is that I don't know of any alum machine screen or available square tubing. I get all my stuff at the scrap yard. As you can see, I mig welded everything together so you'd have to tig weld the alum. I guess you could screw it all together but it would be flimsy and wouldn't hold up under the lead loading and then twisting/shaking out all the crep/dirt.
The angle I used is inherently light (about 1/16" thick). It's not structural in any way except for the mechanical stiffness afforded by the bend (it was part of a snow mobile shipping crate). So weight savings would be negligible with alum. I'd say you're far better off going with steel and weld it all together. As you see, I welded every couple inches just so it would be strong enough.
It took me about 3 hours to do it right so there are no sharp edges or points. I have a shear that I cut the screen with and I have to make sure I cut EXACTLY in the middle of the v-notch when cutting lengthwise so as not to get sharp points. That, or break them off with a file or grinder. I also make sure none of the corners have points, either.
To me, a shovel-like handle is impractical. I'd thought about that, based on something I saw somewhere else but didn't like the idea. I carry rake with stiff but flexible tines. It's not a concrete rake but a real heavy duty leaf rake made out of bamboo. I'll add a pic tmw when it's light enough to see it. I rake the lead down a run that's only as wide as my rake into a pile and with my gloved hands, brush it into the basket. No need for a shovel. I miss some but there's enough that I'm satisfied with my haul. And this private range has been in existence for over 50 years and never has been mined so there's plenty of lead each time it rains.

[Jal5]

Pitchfork with machine screen- I may just make up one of those this winter with the extra pitch fork I have laying around in the workshop.

Joe

[RoGrrr]

RoGrrr - great basket sifter, wondering about using aluminum angle pieces instead of steel for the frame. The weight savings would make the work a little easier.??
Also how about adding some type of shovel like piece to one of the long sides to eliminate the need to carry a shovel?

Tx
I hadn't thought about this last nite since I was a bit tired.
You mention alum for weight but look at total percentages. My box weighs about 5 Lbs. Aluminum would weigh about 2 Lbs.
When you combine the lead and dirt (maybe 25 Lbs) you put in your box, the TOTAL difference between 27 Lbs for alum and 30 Lbs for steel is in fact negligible and unnoticeable.
The difference in strength is the major factor and I really think you would experience bending and breakage . When it breaks, you're going to have to fix it or pay someone to fix it.
I strongly recommend using steel and copying my design.

Oh, yeah. Wear a dust mask when you sift and it's also better if there is a breeze to blow the dust away. When I fini sifting, I ALWAYS rinse the dust out of my nasal cavity and I DO get a lot of black dust/dirt.
This is dirty work but SOMEBODY's gotta do it. And that somebody should very well be ME !

[Highway41]

Gonna have to ponder on a design that doesn't involve welding. I don't weld and all the local welders that aren't tied up in the oilfield are charging major premiums for small jobs.

Love the design though and I really can see how it let's you do a better shake/flip.
Thanks for sharing it.

[RoGrrr]

Gonna have to ponder on a design that doesn't involve welding. I don't weld and all the local welders that aren't tied up in the oilfield are charging major premiums for small jobs.

Love the design though and I really can see how it let's you do a better shake/flip.
Thanks for sharing it.


Tx
Thinking it over, I'd sell this one for $50 plus shipping. I'd like to build a slightly different design and with winter coming on, I won't be needing one for a while, anyway. I enjoy machining and welding, as you'll see when I publish my smelter. I'm also working on a PID-controlled heated base for my Star.

[Highway41]

PM headed your way.

[Down South]

Tx
Thinking it over, I'd sell this one for $50 plus shipping. I'd like to build a slightly different design and with winter coming on, I won't be needing one for a while, anyway. I enjoy machining and welding, as you'll see when I publish my smelter. I'm also working on a PID-controlled heated base for my Star.
This is what I use and you don't have to worry about building anything. It's a minnow trap that you can find sometimes at your local Wally World.
$8 at Gander Mountain.
http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Frabill-Black-Minnow-Trap-Torpedo&i=441889&r=view&aID=504T6&cvsfa=2586&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=343431383839&s_kwcid=goobase_goobase_filler&cID=GSHOP_441889

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[Jal5]

How does that screening on the trap hold up to the weight and rough handling you are going to use in sifting out the dirt? IIRC the ones I have seen weren't too heavy duty? Joe

[RoGrrr]

[QUOTE=Down South;1967244]This is what I use and you don't have to worry about building anything. It's a minnow trap that you can find sometimes at your local Wally World.
$8 at Gander Mountain.
http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Frabill-Black-Minnow-Trap-Torpedo&i=441889&r=view&aID=504T6&cvsfa=2586&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=343431383839&s_kwcid=goobase_goobase_filler&cID=GSHOP_441889
PIC deleted to save bandwidth

Joe
To specifically answer your question, I've seen and gave thought to the minnow traps and while they do work, they aren't sturdy enough to handle the weight I pick up with mine. I consistently do a hundred Lbs in half hour with mine - Industrial strength, you know.

Also, when I get home from the range with my ore, I put a shovel full in the basket and quickly wash the residual dirt down thru the bottom with a water hose nozzle, and am able to easily pick out weeds, sticks, stones, empty shell cases, shotgun wads and clay target remnants. Makes the smelting operation far easier and cleaner than my first few chapters.

It's the difference between "it works, but it's slow" and "high speed production". I like to "get in, strike fast, GET OUT" without wasting time. Not only do I have a mechanical advantage, I'm playing a tactical game, (do you want others in your stash). I try to be "out of view/gone" so others don't see what I'm doing and get the idea to mine their own. In fact, the range boss was so impressed with how much I collected in the short time I'm operating that now when I show up early, he now tells me "the gate's open and there's a half hour before the range opens and the people start showing up".... He lets me drive my car to the berm so I can easily load the "ore" into my trunk without having to haul 150 Lb buckets thru the clubhouse and out to the parking lot.

[41 mag fan]

Initiation time...to be indoctrined and intiated into the cast boolits hall of fame send me 3 buckets of 186lb range lead you find....:kidding::bigsmyl2:

seriously though, that cat litter scoop sounds like a good idea...I might go buy one and go to the range, while my knee heels up, after Christmas and see what i can find!

[41 mag fan]

Exactly what I use, but I used a angle grinder & cut 1/4 inch slots in the shovel, only thing different I would do is not use a such large shovel [coal shovel] as shaking the sand out by hand with a large shovel gets a little tiring after a while. [smilie=b: ;-)

Try shoveling coal and rock nonstop for 8 hrs, back onto the belts where they spilled. It'll make you realize you got muscles in places you didn't know you had them.

[Down South]

Try shoveling coal and rock nonstop for 8 hrs, back onto the belts where they spilled. It'll make you realize you got muscles in places you didn't know you had them.
That will also put muscles where you never had them.

[Jal5]

100#s per half hour is really moving the material! Mine is probably not half that amount so maybe the minnow trap would be a good idea for me. I cannot dig into the berm at all, so I am just either picking up spent boolits or at best sweeping the berm and shoveling what accumulates at the bottom. Joe

[RoGrrr]

100#s per half hour is really moving the material! Mine is probably not half that amount so maybe the minnow trap would be a good idea for me. I cannot dig into the berm at all, so I am just either picking up spent boolits or at best sweeping the berm and shoveling what accumulates at the bottom. Joe

Joe
I use a stiff leaf rake to get the bullets down into a pile. I start at the top of the berm and rake straight down, the width of about 2 rake heads. There's no digging whatsoever. When I get to the bottom, I pull the ore into the basket, shake,rattle and roll; then I dump it into my bucket and rake another stripe. It's best when the ground is really dry but I tried it a couple times while the dirt was still a bit damp and even tho I got more dirt, the collection was reasonably clean.
You're right about 100 Lbs is "moving". Yes, I do it as fast as I can - go in, strike FAST, GET OUT ! Since there's nobody around to distract me, I shee8 and GIT ! That's why I snicker at the minnow trap. I know that even tho it will work, it takes plenty of time. I also think that the basket should be stiff, not collapsible. But if you're retired and can get to the range when it's closed and have no time constraint, have at it. I wanna get all I can as fast as I can.
BTW, I use cloth gloves and I do wear them out as I'm pulling the ore into the basket. But at under a buck a pair, it's worth it to me. Also, I wear longer jeans that cover my boots. As I said earlier, it is dirty work but somebody's gotta do it. And I'm savin' the EPA fella from having to inspect the berm for contaminants. They're all gone by the time he gets there. <G> And the more I do, the more "gone" I am, since I'm getting faster with practice.

[Wal']

Try shoveling coal and rock nonstop for 8 hrs, back onto the belts where they spilled. It'll make you realize you got muscles in places you didn't know you had them.


Yeaaahh............been their done that, but that was thirty years back.............all day swinging a shovel & crow bar in the trench's or hanging off a jack hammer............sadly the body just can't keep up with the mind these days. [smilie=l:

[bslim]

If you are up in the northern States, be the first one to the range just after the snow melts. Most all of the winter shooting bullets are laying on top of the ground. I usually score at least a 3 gal pail every year.

[Jal5]

That makes sense to me. Same thing for brass pickups- be the first one there after ice out in the spring and all the new guns fired since Christmas, new shooters, one time use brass lying there for the taking. Joe

[ROGER4314]

I've salvaged lead at other ranges but at the two private clubs that I belong to, it's not allowed. I love to recycle scrap and it would be something I'd jump all over but I won't risk my membership.

Flash

[RoGrrr]

Roger
Have they given you any reason for not allowing mining ? Seems kinda anal and overly possessive, if you ask me.
If they claim that it degrades the slope of the berm, most are engineered to 45* which is what the highway depts all use as their target. 45* is extremely stable and shows little if any shifting. The raking disturbs negligible amounts and once you get what little sifted that you inevitably will, you can always take it back up and dump it, allowing it to run down and evenly coat the slope again. But having done it a number of times, I see no change in the topography of the slope so they can't hide behind that lame excuse. Also at FrontSight (LasVegas/Pahrump), they have sand berms and with the many THOUSANDS of rounds shot into them and then mined, they show no change, either. Here in Ohio, we have DIRT which is packed down so nothing happens.



I've salvaged lead at other ranges but at the two private clubs that I belong to, it's not allowed. I love to recycle scrap and it would be something I'd jump all over but I won't risk my membership.

Flash

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Something like this sure would work well...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le-Nmg0q9jE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[ROGER4314]

I suspect that they have all kids of reasons for not allowing the lead scrounging but being a realistic kind of guy, I suspect it's to preserve the lead for the club leadership to have........snicker.

One of the clubs is very old and I understand that when they rebuilt the rifle range berms, they were getting gigantic wads of lead/jackets out of the impact craters.

That club has pit service for our matches where the pit crew takes cover behind a second berm. It's pretty impressive when the 30 caliber slugs come barreling in with over 1000 foot pounds of retained energy. They hit the berm with a heavy "SMACK".

Flash

[RoGrrr]

As I mentioned, something about "possessive". I've been met with some raised eyebrows each time I operate. They know but I try to get in/out when there are as few as possible around to see what I do. And I tell them to their faces that I don't want anyone from the 'outside' to see what I'm doing, which is why I drive out onto the range before it opens so I can get out unobserved rather than dragging my (heavy) product thru the clubhouse. And they do agree with my philosophy. However, they also know that what I bring out is nothing of what's there.


I suspect that they have all kids of reasons for not allowing the lead scrounging but being a realistic kind of guy, I suspect it's to preserve the lead for the club leadership to have........snicker.
<SNIP>
Flash

[RoGrrr]

Farmer
I agree with you but what is shown is kind of big. Besides, it looks to be flimsy and if I'm going to haul my machine to the range it has to be more portable and able to withstand abuse. What he built is strictly for soil. I respect the weight of what we're doing and honestly, I need something "INDUSTRIAL STRENGTH" or better yet, "MILITARY STRENGTH" and this power sifter approaches my guidelines. IND strength is good but in many cases is physically too heavy, while MIL strength not only is strong/indestructible but it is also relatively light weight/portable.
I'm strongly considering this design. I disremember where I saw it so I can't give attribution to its builder. I think he had a good idea and I want to replicate it with some minor modifications. He uses an electric motor while I plan to use a weed eater motor with a second stage of gear down pulleys. Maybe even bicycle chains, as belt drag would consume power and might not hold up under stage 1 speeds. I'd like to make the frame from metal rather than wood, possibly aluminum tubing and weld it together. It appears his tumbling tube is about 10 inches in diameter and 4 feet long. I surmise his large pulley is entirely home made. I do have to salute him on his idea and design.
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Something like this sure would work well...

[url]ww.youxxxxx

[evan price]

Our Ohio soil has far too much clay in it to efficiently sort with a trommel. Between the gravel, lumps and chunks of mud it's hard to sort the bullets. My first experiment with a perforated rotating mortar mixer was a failure because by the time I had large enough screen to let bullets out I was getting rocks and clods too.
My second attempt was based on a 55-gallon polymer drum with the sides cut out resting on axles from lawn mower wheels. I used a spray bar made from 1/2" copper pipe, supported the drum in a washtub, and set it to rotating to wash the ore to remove the mud. This worked but wet screening is not fun at all.
Best solution was to just wait for drought and then spend a couple weeks with the cat-litter scoops and get all I could get.

[btroj]

I am more like Evan. Wait for the berms to be just right and go in with fingers. I shoot some, pick some. Shoot more, pick more. I got 220 pounds in Sept and around 600 pounds for the summer. The hot, dry weather made for easy picking.
We have such heavy clay that any sort of sifting is about impossible. Not to mention the rocks, clays, wads, golf balls, and other debris.

I find that my fingers work fine for my purposes. I take my time. I figure that I et around 40 to 50 pounds per hour. I often get my daughter to help in the summer when she is home from college. She prefers gathering lead to shooting. Weird.

The key is to make this into what you want. I gather for my own use. I don't want industrial scale. I keep it low key and low impact. I also don't tie up the rane when others want to shoot. I figure that if I don't make it an issue then the gun club won't either.

[Jal5]

I am kind of like btroj- do it quietly a little at a time for my own use. But I do want to use something with a handle maybe the kitty scoop on a broomstick> need to protect my back a little more these days.

[bslim]

When I do my spring clean-up, I take a rubber pad and a small 1 gal. bucket and get down on my hands and knees. It's surprising just how many are partially covered and are more visible at close range.

[High Lord Gomer]

Thanks to this thread I made a sifter of my own. I took it to the range early Sunday morning and found that it doesn't work well when the berms are clay and it rained the day before. My son and I spent about an hour fighting with it. We would shovel a few inches worth in and then use the flat shovels to rake it across the bottom, first one way and then the other. Not much dirt fell out and we ended up with 288 lbs of clay, bullets, rocks, pinestraw, and shotgun wads.

When I got home I put 3 or 4 inches at a time of that mixture into it and hosed it down with the pressure washer. I ended up with 153 lbs of bullets and rocks.

I recently started welding and I have a habit of overbuilding things. I tried not to with this but it still came out to 27 lbs. I made it 10x10x27 since the wheelbarrow is 26" wide. It held up well to the raking and banging with the shovels.

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[merlin101]

I cannot dig into the berm at all, so I am just either picking up spent boolits or at best sweeping the berm and shoveling what accumulates at the bottom. Joe

I'm not allowed to "dig" in the berm either, but I've found that a lot of lead washes down to the bottom of the berm along with a lot of dirt too. So everyone kinda looks the other way when I "rebuild" the berm minus the lead![smilie=1: No problems yet cause I make sure I toss the dirt back up the hill

[RoGrrr]

HighLordGomer
When you say OVERbuild, you're not wrong. Your frame tubing appears to be about an inch square. Also I see that your angle iron frame appears to be 3/32 or maybe 1/8 structural angle iron. I'd thought about that but wanted to save my back AND be able to manhandle for sifting so I used the real thin angle iron. After all, we're only handling maybe 15 Lbs of ore and dirt, TOPS.

My first (wooden) sifter was about 15 inches square and about 8 inches deep. I found that to be a bit cumbersome so I built the next version which was too small. It is the one with no sides but I wanted proof-of-concept and when I used it, I knew I was onto something.

That's when I settled on my 8x8x15 basket with the 3\8" tubing running completely around the top and then added the handles (as I mentioned, I use it as a step to get up into the bed of my pickup truck) and I have yet to bend it. Even at that, it's a bit big and heavy, even tho it only weighs about 8 Lbs. My next one will prolly be only about 5 inches deep. My length is good for when I get some unruly/damp dirt and decide to slosh the contents "side to side". I might even make one of the long sides a bit higher than the other. When you start "rolling" it as you're sifting, you'll understand. I doubt you can do that rolling with your overly heavy sifter, which is why you bring home so much dirt. I sift much of the dirt out as I'm collecting so I don't put much into my transport buckets.

Also, I use a leaf rake on the berm to roll the bulk of the loose boolits down into a pile (mine is bamboo so it's stiffer than the typical metal leaf rakes and drags more boolits down), which also reduces the amout of dirt I put into the basket. I don't normally use a shovel at the range. That's what my gloves are for. My (gloved) hands do better than any tool. I will put about 4 inches of ore/dirt into the basket and shake/roll.

You'll also learn that at least a week or so for the ground to dry out after a heavy rain is optimal. You want lots of DRY dust on the face of the berm so you don't carry it home. As you discovered, washing the ore is necessary and I do that with my garden hose. I haven't gotten around to using my presure washer. Yet.... But I've thought about it.

Also, I take a few moments to remove the shotgun wads, sticks and any sizeable gravel that I see in the basket before I sift and/or dump into my bucket. There is some evidence of clay targets on my gravel driveway but that will eventually go away. The plastic wads won't.

I could ask you for royalties since you used my design but we're in this to further our hobby so I'm entirely happy that you found my design helpful. My next design will be similar but one of the long sides will use a rail that has a slight ouward arch/bulge to it. The reason for that is with the undulations you find on the berm, while laying the basket on its side, there is normally a gap between it and the dirt. My new bulged design should reduce that gap, allowing me to collect a bit more ore. Might not be all that significant but any little bit helps.

[fcvan]

I used to mine the berm at work. I yes tarted with a 1lb metal coffee can for a scoop, a 3lb metal coffee can for a container, and a plastic vegetable colander for a sifter. It usually took me about 5 minutes to to fill a 3lb can and be on my way. Later, a rangemaster buddy brought in a piece of expanded metal and 5 gallon buckets. We were able to fill a 5 gallon bucket in about 5 minutes and then spend another 5 minutes reshaping the berm. I used to get called by the armory sergeant to 'get out here, the berms look like hell and there's lead stacking up deep.' Those were the days.

[High Lord Gomer]

HighLordGomer
When you say OVERbuild, you're not wrong. Your frame tubing appears to be about an inch square. Also I see that your angle iron frame appears to be 3/32 or maybe 1/8 structural angle iron.
Very good eyes! The screen is 1/4", the angle is 3/32"x1" and the tubing I used for the handles and the positioning tabs along the bottom (to keep it in place on the wheelbarrow) is 1/4"x1".

My decisions on the size were based on the width of the wheelbarrow and the diameter of the 5 gallon buckets into which I planned on dumping it. What I found was that my flat bladed shovels fit nicely inside it so that I don't shake it at all, I rake the contents from one side to the other using the shovel and then shovel it out, also. I'm hoping that with dry dirt it will prove to be much more productive.


Also, I use a leaf rake on the berm to roll the bulk of the loose boolits down into a pile (mine is bamboo so it's stiffer than the typical metal leaf rakes and drags more boolits down)
Thank you! I will try that next time.


I could ask you for royalties since you used my design but we're in this to further our hobby so I'm entirely happy that you found my design helpful.
Very helpful! Should I fax or email the cash?

What part of Central Ohio? I will likely be in Columbus the first full week of February and like to hit a weeknight match when I travel. Last time I was in the area I hit a USPSA match in Miamisburg but I'm hoping for something closer to Columbus.

[RoGrrr]

High Lord Gomer

I understand your theory and while I had been thinking of something like that, I wanted it to be completely portable. I built mine "bite size" so I could easily shake, rattle and roll it by hand. Being 5'8" and tipping the scales at under 150 Lbs, I need something I can handle. Yours would be manageable if I were the size of a New York Jets linebacker. And, yes, I saw the "stops" to align and stabilize yours on the barrow. Made me shudder, especially if you happen to get it off balance and your wheel barrow tops over.
Your method is ok but I would bet if you build one my size and weight and use it like I do (shaking it), your results will be far more satisfying and probably faster, too. Moving the basket will remove the dirt and do it more quickly than moving the ore in the basket. It's overly labor intensive to rake the dirt and boolits inside the basket with a shovel or hoe. DukeInMaine has an idea like yours with power to sift - post #18. However, it looks like you hauled almost 300 Lbs home. While I carry 300 Lbs home, most of mine is lead. I don't like to haul dirt, especially in the trunk of my BMW. Again, I want equipment portability.

As far as raking, many of the metal leaf rakes are so flimsy that they might not be good enough for our purpose. If you do use metal, you might want to bend the tines so they are shaped like mine, to grab the boolits. The streamlined tines will just slide over them without moving them; you're not going to be standing right over them like you would when raking leaves. You will be below them on the berm. My rake is bamboo and is a bit larger than the average leaf rake and the second pic shows a closeup of the tines with a penny for scale. Being bamboo, the tines are fairly thick but serve my purpose well for raking the heavier bounty down the slope.
And, yes, dry dirt is what you want. I go several days after a hard rain so the sun has dried out the berm. I also wear a dust mask if there's no breeze.

And all my time put into the design, research and my PERSONAL consultation is going to cost you big time. Fax the cash to BR-549 at your earliest convenience.

I'm about 50 miles east of Columbus

my rake
http://imgur.com/kpNJN

closeup
http://i.imgur.com/BQCwx.jpg




Very good eyes! The screen is 1/4", the angle is 3/32"x1" and the tubing is 1/4"x1".

size width of the wheelbarrow and 5 gallon buckets flat bladed shovels fit nicely inside it so that I don't shake it at all, . I'm hoping that with dry dirt it will prove to be much more productive.

Very helpful! Should I fax or email the cash?

[High Lord Gomer]

I've got some plastic rakes but will look for something a little more sturdy like yours.

Junior, it says your number has been disconnected or is no longer in service. Should I just fax the money to the phone company for you?

Know of any weeknight matches we might be able to make the week of Feb 4th?

[RoGrrr]

I sent an email to the fone company to either apply the money to my cell fone bill or have some primers delivered to the address as shown on my bill.

I checked around and I can't find any matches in the Columbus (CMH - that's pilot talk for Columbus Ohio) area. There is a gun show ($8 admission) on the west side of CMH Feb 2 and 3 (9am-4pm) if you're interested. And if you look around you can find a dollar off coupon. But Wait, BUT WAIT ! I made it easy for you, (and any others who might want to join in) - I posted that VALUABLE coupon at : http://rogrrr.imgur.com/all/ Not only is this dollar coupon good at CMH but at any other C&E gun show in the country, from south carolina up thru penna. So any of youse who downloads my free coupon, you, too can fax your $$$$ to me (or my cell fone company)

BTW, for anyone interested

NO THERE IS NO PIN SHOOT THIS SUNDAY ! IT'S JANUARY 13 ! I SCREWED UP. DON'T EXPECT TO SHOOT PINS THIS WEEKEND.
AND IN FEB IT'S FEB 10 !



I've got some plastic rakes but will look for something a little more sturdy like yours.
Junior, it says your number has been disconnected or is no longer in service. Should I just fax the money to the phone company for you?
Know of any weeknight matches we might be able to make the week of Feb 4th?

[High Lord Gomer]

Thanks! I printed out 8 of them and I'm getting in FREE!

(Actually, it said your images weren't publicly available)

[RoGrrr]

Thanks! I printed out 8 of them and I'm getting in FREE!

(Actually, it said your images weren't publicly available)


HLG
I saw that note when I tried to look without signing in. Since I don't know how to turn it off, I opened a new account at imgur.
You all can sign in as BOOLITCASTER
password - 123456789
Then you can view all my images.

The only reason I use imgur is that it was recommended in the FAQ. I don't like the other sites since they seem to be unfriendly (to me, anyway). Maybe I'll figger out what I'm doing wrong.
Seems to me that I was able to post pics directly onto this forum board but I disremember how I did it then.


I don't know if they will let you into the show free but they used to let womens in free. I put a bunch of the coupons in the glove compartment in my cars so I never have to worry about remembering to take them with me. I've done that before. I also have a spare in my wallet so I can give it to a friend as incentive for him to take in the show, too.

Also, when they put those tie wraps in my guns, I tell them not to pull them tight and don't cut it off. Just as soon as the little latch starts to catch, I tell them to STOP. They ask why I don't want it tight. It's easier for me to stick a pin in on the underside and push the ratchet latch out of the way and remove it without having to cut it off. Full length tie wraps come in handy. I collect several of them each show and put them in the trunk when I leave. I keep a safety pin in the car specifically for removing them.

[Smokepole50]

I am thinking a cross between a shaker box and a wheel barrel would be about perfect. Just roll it up to the base of the berm, added the lead filled dirt and shake the wheel barrel handles. No heavy box to pick up while shaking and with a little planning you could make a bench across the top to hold you buckets full of lead and dirt. I think I just might built one this weekend. Now I need to find a tire to use.

[RoGrrr]

I am thinking a cross between a shaker box and a wheel barrel would be about perfect. Just roll it up to the base of the berm, added the lead filled dirt and shake the wheel barrel handles. No heavy box to pick up while shaking and with a little planning you could make a bench across the top to hold you buckets full of lead and dirt. I think I just might built one this weekend. Now I need to find a tire to use.

I had thought of something like that but considering you have to haul the wheel barrow to the range, off load it, fill your sifter, shake, etc. it's actually too labor-intensive.
I shake/sift at the berm (I used this strategy to sell my procedure to the manager. I don't remove any of their berm, which they liked) so I don't have to haul any more dirt home than necessary. Post 57 in this thread - High Lord Gomer built something like you describe and as he said - doesn't work well when the berms are clay. My berms are clay and it does take plenty of shaking to sift the dirt out. I learned from experience is that it takes a LOT of HARD/HEAVY shaking to sift the dirt out, especially if your berm is not sand. And the bigger your basket is, the heaviier it willl be and you will not be able to shake it as much as necessary to sift the dirt out.
I started out with a fairly large sifter (15x15x6), went to a small one and then my medium size box. What I settled on is small enough (8x8x15) that I can man-handle/vigorously shake it while getting enough ore. 8 inches deep is pretty close to optimum, considering how much I have to shake sideways and flip the crep to get the dirt out (like eggs or pancakes to get what's on top down to where it falls out the bottom). Yeah, the 22s sift out thru the screen but I don't care about those slugs less than 40 grains. Larger box and I would have to be a professional footballer to work it. Smaller and I didn't get enough ore, which wastes tooo much time. Remember this - Get in, GET IT, get out. I consistently get over 100 pounds in a half hour.
The wheel barrow is ok after you collect so much that it's inconvenient carrying the 5 gallon buckets back to the car. I either use the range 2-wheeler or drive my car out to the berm (if nobody has come to shoot yet) so I don't have to carry it.
My basket size and amount of fill seems to work well FOR ME. Yes, I'd like to have a power power trommel sifter and might eventually build one if my circumstances change but for the time being, I'm satisfied with what I built. Well, I do have a design in mind for a modified box which I will build soon tho it will be the same size as I have now. I plan to curve one long side out an inch or so and curve the other long side inward the same amount. I'm thinking this bcuz many of the curves/bumps in the berm allow some of the ore to slide under the side of the basket rather than into it. I know this is a minor thing but I still want to improve my efficinency. Remember this - LEAD IS GETTING SCARCER due to govt regulations. Screw the govt !

[Tx reloader72]

RoGrr if you have any questions about the machine in post #52 just send me a pm. I have cleaned over 5000# of range lead with it. The pipe is 8 in, the pulley is a bike rim, the screen is stucco lath, spent more on bolts than anything else lol.

[High Lord Gomer]

Mine turned out to be WAY too heavy to shake. Instead I use a flat shovel to rake the boolits from one side to the other while the dirt hopefully falls out. Then I lift the whole thing to dump it into a bucket.

[jlchucker]

Got off work a little earlier than usual last night and decided since it was so close to dark I'd run out to the range and see what kind of scrap I could pick up. Took a little 1 gallon bucket and picked up all the easy stuff, filled the bucket but it took about two hours. Got tired, not to mention cold (temps in the upper teens) and decided to call it a night.
Stopped by a convenience store to grab a drink and the clerks were talking about their cats. Cats?! What does that have to do with lead you ask... Well I headed straight to wally world, strolled to the pet department and purchased 2 cat litter scoops then grabbed a 5gal bucket and headed straight back to the range.
Two more hours work yielded a grand total of 186lbs (first small bucket included).


Sent by high speed racing turtle via Tapatalk2.

Great Idea. I never thought about using a litter box scooper. The ones you find in Wallyworld and most supermarket pet sections though are made out of plastic and eventually break. A few weeks ago, when that happened to me, I looked for a replacement at a Petsmart store I happened to see on my way to Wallyworld. When I stopped in, I noticed that they carried a steel one in the cat section, right next to the usual plastic ones. I bought it, albeit for 11 bucks instead of the usual 3 or 4 for the plastic ones. It's heavy duty and should scoop cat poop forever. Now that I've read your post, I'm going back there and get another one of those steel scoopers expressly for range mining.

[RoGrrr]

Mine turned out to be WAY too heavy to shake. Instead I use a flat shovel to rake the boolits from one side to the other while the dirt hopefully falls out. Then I lift the whole thing to dump it into a bucket.


portability/shake-ability is something I had considered, especially after my first episode with the shaker. Made me decide to downsize mine

[RoGrrr]

Great Idea. I never thought about using a litter box scooper. The ones you find in Wallyworld and most supermarket pet sections though are made out of plastic and eventually break. A few weeks ago, when that happened to me, I looked for a replacement at a Petsmart store I happened to see on my way to Wallyworld. When I stopped in, I noticed that they carried a steel one in the cat section, right next to the usual plastic ones. I bought it, albeit for 11 bucks instead of the usual 3 or 4 for the plastic ones. It's heavy duty and should scoop cat poop forever. Now that I've read your post, I'm going back there and get another one of those steel scoopers expressly for range mining.

I use my steel pooper scooper to lift the jackets out of my furnace when I smelt. Works very well for that. Not big enough for range work, tho.
I then use a stainless spoon (25 cents at the goodwill store) to scoop out the dross after I remove the jackets.