Lead Hardness Tester [Archive]

Mk42gunner

12-12-2012, 04:45 PM

I bought a Lee. Good strong summer sunlight is a big help on using it. Also rigging up some sort of sturdy base to hold the magnifier, several people have used children's microscopes for a base.

After using the Lee for a while, I was at an estate auction and managed to snag a Saeco lead hardness teaster. It worked, but I didn't like it; I found it difficult to get a consistant reading. I passed it along to another member here.

To me a hardness tester is something to use once on a batch of alloy; then it gets put back on the shelf until the next big batch comes along.

Robert

John Allen

12-12-2012, 04:55 PM

Robert, thanks for your opinion. I am mainly using it for ingots.

Walter Laich

12-12-2012, 06:35 PM

just so happens used mine today. To check hardness of 10 bullets took 10 minutes and half of that was finding it in the mess I call my garage.

I was spendy (not cheap) but I like it and it works with these 66 year old eyes.

mold maker

12-12-2012, 08:20 PM

Cabintree hands down. It's the most versatile and easiest to use. I have both a LEE and Saeco gathering dust.

Circuit Rider

12-12-2012, 08:25 PM

Cabine Tree, you'll not regret it John. CR

John Allen

12-12-2012, 08:27 PM

I am going to order one this week and decided on the cabine tree. I appreciate all the help. Right now I have (40) 5 gal buckets of coww to melt down over winter. You got to love free wheel weights!

John Boy

12-12-2012, 08:30 PM

John Allen

12-12-2012, 08:35 PM

On a side note are you separating the wheel weights before melting in a large put or are you guys just running the temp to melt the lead and skimming off the zinc and steel?

Mk42gunner

12-15-2012, 01:30 AM

I am going to order one this week and decided on the cabine tree. I appreciate all the help. Right now I have (40) 5 gal buckets of coww to melt down over winter. You got to love free wheel weights!

Braggart. :kidding:

On a side note are you separating the wheel weights before melting in a large put or are you guys just running the temp to melt the lead and skimming off the zinc and steel?

I've done it both ways. It really is disheartening to check a five gallon bucket of WW with side cutters and still find a zinc floater when you skim all the clips off. Its kind of a big "Oh (insert sailor language here)" moment.

Sorting does give you a chance to get the gravel and valve stems out of the bucket before heating. Rubber valve stems and old patchs stink when burning.

The best advice I can give is to do your best while sorting, and still get the clips out as soon as you can so you can see the surface of the lead; just in case a zinc one slips by.

Good luck

Robert

dromia

12-15-2012, 06:11 AM

I've owned and used the Cabine Tree, the LBT, the SAECo and the Lee and my preferences are in that order.

The Cabine Tree is the only one I own now.

shooter2

12-16-2012, 12:22 PM

The only one I've owned is the LBT so I cannot compare testers. That said, I am very happy with the LBT.

cbrick

12-16-2012, 01:07 PM

On a side note are you separating the wheel weights before melting in a large put or are you guys just running the temp to melt the lead and skimming off the zinc and steel?

You should always separate WW's before smelting. Keep the clip-on and stick-on weights separate, they are a different alloy and there will be a different quantity of each in each bucket of weights. If you always blend them together you will have no way of maintaining a consistent alloy. Besides, it seems such a waist of such nice soft alloy.

I agree that snipping every weight in a bucket with wire cutters is a huge PITA but worth it to me just for the piece of mind once it's done. Never smelt over 700 degrees for additional piece of mind.

Rick

cajun shooter

12-17-2012, 10:28 AM

The Cabin Tree made by our own Gussy is hands down the best made. If you purchase the top model, then you receive the tool that allows you to measure bullet runout. If you are a handgun shooter only then no need for the extra tool. If you load what should be rifle ammo that is as good as or better than the best factory offered then you need to know your runout.
This tool is built like a tank and is very simple in it's use.
John Boy, is a very good friend of mine and one of the leaders in many tests that are performed to help others. I will have to disagree with his choice of the Lee however.
I know full well that he has mastered it's use but it is not a across the board tool that may be picked up by the masses and receive accurate readings. It has many steps that have to be preformed the same each time or your reading is incorrect.
The Cabin Tree only requires a complete 360 degree turn and a reading to be taken. They are so easy, anyone is an expert in the first try. Later David

ROGER4314

12-17-2012, 10:54 AM

I have the Lee unit and like the other guys said, it's tough on old eyes. One suggestion made sense and I'll sure try it. Adapt a base to hold the microscope steady. I'll try one of those "third hand" soldering rigs to see how it works.

Aside from those problems, I wondered how accurate the Lee tester was. I ordered one pound samples of almost every bullet alloy that RotoMetals offers. I tested each one with the Lee unit and compared that BHN hardness with specs listed by RotoMetals for each alloy. Only one alloy differed from the Roto specs and that was a couple of BHN units off.

One of our members prepared and posted a revised BHN chart for the Lee unit. Lee documentation stops at .079" impression which is 8 BHN. That's just too hard for pure lead or the softer alloys. The revised chart allows me to test pure lead samples, now. I tested the Roto pure lead samples and the chart was dead on in accuracy!

I just checked that chart and found no reference to who prepared it. It's good work and maybe one of our members could help by giving proper credit.....Thanks!

Flash

cbrick

12-17-2012, 11:34 AM

I wondered how accurate the Lee tester was. Flash

I don't think it's a matter of how accurate or consistent the LEE tester is (or any tester for that matter), I think it's more a matter of how accurate and consistent various people are using it.

Rick

ROGER4314

12-17-2012, 11:35 AM

The Cabin Tree units are out of stock. It's a great design but they can't make delivery. The Lee unit will have to make do for me.

......... how accurate and consistent various people are using it.

My words were out of context. The paragraph goes on to say that I checked it against known samples and it was very close. Of course, you need to follow the directions and use it consistently. For $50, it works great! I install the penetrator in my Rock Chucker, apply force until the spring plunger is flush with the tool body then hold it for 30 seconds.

Flash

engineer401

12-17-2012, 10:09 PM

The Cabin Tree units are out of stock. It's a great design but they can't make delivery. The Lee unit will have to make do for me.

Flash

Buffalo Arms has the CabineTree testers in stock. http://www.buffaloarms.com/lead_hardness_testers_pr-3903.aspx

1bluehorse

12-19-2012, 11:20 PM

I was looking for a "tester" a few years back. Figured it was something I really needed..bought the Lee, cause it was cheap, used it a few times, don't use it anymore (or rarely). It did what I needed it to do, (measure the alloy I was using), I've checked several samples of lead that I cast with and there just isn't a whole lot of difference in any of it so I rarely check it anymore...makes nice bullets, they don't lead my guns, shoots as good as I can, so what if it's 12 or 15bhn?? as long as the bullets work I really don't care how hard they are..YOMV...However if I've read correctly the Cabine Tree is more than just a BHN tester....case and bullet runout????

BAGTIC

12-21-2012, 01:39 AM

I have been happy with my LBT. Never felt the need to try another.

hermans

12-21-2012, 09:04 AM

The Cabine Tree one is one of the best, if not the best. I use my one in regulation, with good results.
You get what you pay for.

wymanwinn

12-21-2012, 09:18 AM

i have a Cabin Tree....and if I can be successful with it ANYONE can....great consistent tool....

wyman

Sasquatch-1

12-26-2012, 03:42 PM

Just received a Cabine Tree for Christmas. It came about two days before Christmas and right after I had thought I was going to have to wait till about mid January. I have tested several pieces of lead and found that it does pay to sort the range scrap. All the ingots I got from cast bullets I mined came out to the hadness range listed for Lyman #2 alloy. The mixed jackets came out to about 20 to 1.

If the manufacturer of these is a member here and monitoring this thread, Thanks for a happy Christmas.

craig61a

12-26-2012, 04:20 PM

I'll have to look into the Cabin Tree...

GP100man

12-26-2012, 09:49 PM

Don`t laff it works !!

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/Leescopeholder-1.jpg

I used it alot at first , but as many toys we have the new wore off & it rarely gets used anymore now that I have my hangun & rifle alloys seperated & it does help stop the trial & error of loading since it gives ya a "number" to work with .

cbrick

12-26-2012, 10:04 PM

Not laughing but if you look real close you'll see the expiration date has long ago come and gone. :mrgreen:

Rick

btroj

12-27-2012, 08:00 AM

I got a Cabin Tree for Christmas. Easy to use. Seems very repeatable.

It opened my eyes a bit. My bullets tend to run harder than I had expected.

hermans

12-27-2012, 08:27 AM

btroj, some wise old man once said "To measure is to know"

btroj

12-27-2012, 09:15 PM

It is nice to know but the bullets won't shoot any better.

cbrick

12-27-2012, 09:42 PM

Perhaps not but it will make it easier to duplicate the load.

Rick

btroj

12-27-2012, 11:21 PM

I will be interested to see how much my range scrap hardens with age.
I do think this will be a useful tool for managing alloy and hardness for hunting bullets. I like bullets soft as possible for hunting.

I don't view a hardness tester as being mandatory by any means but it will let me have a better handle on things. I may see differences in accuracy based on hardness but that would require more testing than I may care to do.

GP100man

12-28-2012, 12:50 AM

As all agree, the hardness tester is a useful tool ,as it helps remove 1 of the many inconsistentcys we face !!

flstf_2000

12-28-2012, 03:19 AM

Jim, I like your lead hardness tester but it might be a little while before I save the extra money to purchase one. Keep up the good work.

Sasquatch-1

12-28-2012, 10:22 AM

I will be interested to see how much my range scrap hardens with age.
I do think this will be a useful tool for managing alloy and hardness for hunting bullets. I like bullets soft as possible for hunting.
.

I tested some ingots I had laying around for a month or two. When I cast them I wrote "mixed" on them From assorted range scrap. Some of these ingots tested at 22 BHN and harder. Some of the others tested at 14 to 15. I am wondering if I should cast some slugs and retest these. If I am getting this kind of hardness from range scrap I think I am good to go.

I am thinking of casting some slugs and carefully running them through my core forming die so I have a real nice cylinder to test.

btroj

12-28-2012, 11:39 AM

I don't test ingots, they cool at vastly differing rates as I pour them. Cooling time makes a difference.
Running slugs thru a core forming die would also make some changes as the lead would work soften.
I use lots of range scrap. I haven't tested lots of bullets cast from it. Yet. I have found that it works well for the majority of my casting needs.

Old Caster

12-29-2012, 12:05 AM

I have used a Lee, Saeco, and a LBT. Don't care for the first two at all but think the LBT works well however it is a lot of money and a little tinny for the price. The threads on the unit were kind of sloppy since new and I may have to eventually JB weld a nut on it to make it more solid. I have never used a Cabine Tree but after reading many posts on the subject I would go with it before all the rest unless the LBT is a lot less money. -- Bill --

btroj

12-29-2012, 02:08 PM

Just did a few quick hardness tests with the new Cabin Tree. I was quite amazed at how consistent the results were
4 samples each of monotype blocks, range scrap ingots, and leap pipe ingots. Each sample was tested, a few a couple times in different places.
Pipe was seated down without removing joints so a bit of tin is present.

Range scrap all came out between 11.5 and 13 BHn
Pipe all came out at 7.5 to 9
Monotype blocks were at 22 for one, other 3 at 24

I was happy to find results come out consistent, tells me I must be doing something right.

7of7

01-03-2013, 11:20 PM

I have over 1800 lbs of various alloy lead ingots. Every one has been tested for hardness with the Lee. Just hold the tube steady with light shining under the bottom.
Read ... http://www.lasc.us/Shay-BHN-Tester-Experiment.htm#Lee

Seems to me in looking at the data, that the Cabin Tree and the Lee are the best ones of all of them because they give the best accuracy short of sending it to a lab...