C Sharps Highwall

[supe47]

I recently purchased a C Sharps Highwall in 45-70 with a 30" #1 heavy barrel. The only molds I have for it at this time are a Ranch Dog 350 gr, NOE 350gr. both gas checked and a Hoch 430gr BPCR. I punch paper and won't use this rifle for hunting. Max range so far 300yds. I'm new to the rifle and want to get to know it before I start playing with black powder. Rather than throwing 50 lbs of lead down range before I find a load of smokeless powder that I like, would someone commend an accurate load that's pleasant to shoot? So far I've only shot rounds with Unique which groups about 3-4" at 200 yds. I believe me and my fence post can do just a wee bit better. I have a bunch of assorted powders to choose from but need guidance. Just bought an 8 lb'er of Varget and want to give it a try but have read of a lot of unburned powder left in the barrel. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Supe

[hickstick_10]

32.5 to 33 grains of reloader 7 under the 500 grain government roundnose has worked good for me so far. Accuracey is as good as I can hold it and theres no tumbling.

Bullets are straight wheel weights sized 0.458 lubed with toilet bowl wax, a couple spoon fulls of ATF and some graphite added for colour. It doesnt stomp me near as bad as the 535 grain postell under 38 grains of the same powder and I can shoot it prone and from the bench without a sissy pad. But I think the governments nose size of 0.448 has alot to do with the accuracy, my postel mould is a little "wonky" as far as nose diameter is concerned.

This is out of a 13 pound shiloh LRE with the 32 inch heavy barrel so your results may differ from mine.

[Gunlaker]

I would try that Hoch bullet and about 25gr of SR-4759.

Chris.

[supe47]

Hickstick- Have 3031 but no Reloader 7, I'll get some. My Highwall weighs in at 12 lbs. My gun dealer says if it doesn't shoot it'll make a good fence post. Still getting used to the Soule sights. Haven't used that much elevation since my M-79 days in Viet-Nam.
Gunlaker- I do have SR-4759 and will give it a try. Thanks gents, Supe

[Cimarron Red]

I'm with Chris on 4759. I have a C. Sharps high wall, also, but I shoot black powder in it exclusively. But in several 1886 Winchester/Browning Miroku rifles, I shoot 25 or 26 grains of SR-4759 (depending on the powder lot) under 300, 405 and 500 grain RNFP RCBS gas check bullets cast from WW with some tin added. Yes, the same charge for all three bullets, and they shoot wonderfully.

[supe47]

Is SR-4759 position sensitive? Is a filler necessary? I'm headed to the range tomorrow, I'll load some tonight.

[fouronesix]

Don't overlook 5744. It's similar to 4759. Also, the gas checked bullet is your friend for smokeless loads.
My most accurate smokeless load in the the 45-70 Sharps is: 23 gr 5744 with dacron filler under approx 11 BHN 440 gr gas checked bullet. Loads in this range more or less duplicate BP ballistics. You'll need about plus 20-30 MOAs sight adjustment greater than 100 yard zero for a 300 yard zero- depending on BC of bullet.

[Gunlaker]

I'd skip the filler. I shoot BP in mine only now. That rifle was my first with a Badger barrel and I broke it in using smokeless following their instructions. A 405gr hard cast, gas checked bullet with 25gr of SR-4759 and no filler gave 100m groups of right around one MOA. I was pretty amazed. Getting it to shoot well with black powder was a significantly longer adventure :-)

Chris.

[supe47]

Gunlaker- Ergo my starting off with smokeless until I learn how my fence post likes to be shot. I play with 2-308's, a 30-06, a Marlin in 45-70 and now this with cast boolits and they all like different foreplay. And my 223 Savage doesn't like to be touched much at all. I want to learn the little intricacies of the highwall before I attempt going BP. Eventually it will belch smoke but not until I can shoot this beautiful chunk of steel and wood with the proficiency this rifle deserves. Plus I only have a half a pound of 3f BP that's about 30 yrs old (firecracker experimentation in my wild and crazy days). When I'm comfortable with shooting style and have learned how to use that thingie with the long screw that sits just in front of my eye.....and have bumped my lead stash over 1000 lbs., I'll go Holy black and then My "significantly longer adventure" shall begin. Until then I'm just looking for a load in smokeless that's fairly accurate so when my groups start to spread, I know it's me. It doesn't make sense trying to shoot 1Moa with 6Moa loads. Trying the SR-4759 tomorrow.

[montana_charlie]

I'm new to the rifle and want to get to know it before I start playing with black powder.
Her personality will change when you switch to BP, so most of what you learn during your 'get acquainted' sessions will be of limited value.

The research, powder purchases, and cogitations that you have already described show how unnecessarily complicated your quest is.

With BP, you just fill the case to the base of the bullet and try that. Keep adding a grain (or two) of powder until you find the right load. You'll know when you try to use too much, because the cartridge won't chamber.
With reasonable care, it's almost impossible to hurt yourself, or the gun.

CM

[Cimarron Red]

Montana Charlie has it right. The rifle prefers black, so feed her what she wants. Jump right in instead of circling warily around black powder as though it were a rattlesnake! Swiss 1 1/2 F or 2F under a 500 + grain bullet will be the ticket.

[supe47]

'nuff said. I'll give it a try. Thanks much, Supe.

[XTR]

I tried a lot of powders recently trying to find a smokeless load for a 45-70. I found that 3031 wasn't happy in the low loadings that you'll want to run cast bullets at the 1200/1300FPS range. It works great loaded to very nearly 100% fill (50gr) behind 405 jacketed bullets, but at lower loadings I got poor results.

The Lyman 49th and several posts I've seen recommend XMP-5744 for BP type velocities, That's probably worth a try, and I've gotten pretty good results in my '74 Sharps with paper patched bullets over IMR4198.

[johnson1942]

im in agreement with hickstick 10 only from my limited experience in that reloader 7 worked so very well in every way that i never moved from it. it is bulky clean enough and very accurate. you may try this for accuratecy. a 1.37 long bullet for extreem long range and a 1.5 to 1.6 bullet if you want really tight groups at 200 yards. you could even go to 1.65 long if you dont shoot beyond 250 yards. i used to shoot a 1.5 bullet in a 45/70 1 in 22 twist. kept it in a nickle size group one day. wouldnt shoot out past 250 yards, but wow under that it was great. had 60 grains of 2f black behind it. i now shoot a 620 grain in my muzzleloader which . a .45 cal with a 1 in 18 twist. any thing under 400 grain may gyro out about 100 yards out. have fun johnson1942

[Gunlaker]

I just dug through some old targets. This was the only smokeless load I've ever put through the rifle. It's done somewhat better with black powder but not a lot. Distance was 100m.

55884

Chris.

[supe47]

I can see me and my fence post need more cheek time. It's with me every time I go to the range. Sadly, some of my other 'speriments have taken a back seat. The 308 was the number 2 rifle last time out and with the last test I shrunk my groups another .2". If nothing else I've learned patience shooting cast in rifles. It sure tickles me pink to see the eyes widen when I tell the boys at the range..."that's with my cast boolits". Much thanks gents. Supe