IMR 4227...What Is Its Best Use?

[Southern Shooter]

About 3 years ago, I picked up 4 lbs of IMR 4227 with intentions of using in some .44 Magnums with 240 grain cast SWC. I never did so. Well, now I am trying to find the best use for this powder instead of letting it just sit.

I reload for .38 Special (2" and 4" barrels), .357 Magnum (2 3/4", 4", 6" barrels), .44 Magnum (4" and 6 1/2" barrels), .45 Colt and .454 Casull (2 1/2" barrel). Would any of these calibers and barrel lengths be a good choice for IMR 4227? If so, which ones, what powder charge, what weight of cast bullet, etc.?

Thanks

[Larry Gibson]

IMR 4227 will work quite well in the 357 and 44 magnums with the longer barrels. However, it is not the best performer for true magnum level loads in those cartridges. Would be good too in the 45 Colt if the barrel was longer though it still might be ok with 300+ gr weight bullets.

In the 357 I use 15.5 gr under the 358156 at 155 gr for 1264 fps out of a 6" barreled revolver. In the 44 I use 23 gr under the 429421 at 255 gr for 1210 fps out of a 6" barreled revolver.

Larry Gibson

[Southern Shooter]

Thanks, Larry. On the .45 Colt and .454 Casull bullet weight, I have two molds that I cast for those calibers. One weighs 264 grains and the other weighs 362 grains.

[44man]

It is very accurate in the .44 UNTIL THE BARREL GETS HOT. Then it will burn faster and faster and raise pressures. I use a 10" barrel and it drove me nuts.
It was great in the .357 max.
It is a powder you need to test in each caliber under all conditions.

[Southern Shooter]

I have heard others mention about IMR 4227 pressures rising as the gun heated up. Would that make such a powder good for colder climates? Or, colder times of the years?

[44man]

It might. It worked fine for me if I shot slow. Not to be when shooting IHMSA though.
Strange thing was in the .357 max, heat did not bother it.

[Southern Shooter]

Do you think the .357 Magnum would perform well and not be effected by the heat, either? I have both the revolvers mentioned above and a Marlin 1894c.

[Shiloh]

I use it for cast in the Springfield. 23 gr with a 314299 gives around 1760 fps. and is as accurate as I can shoot.

Shiloh

[shooter93]

It also works very well in the 22 Hornet should you decide to get one or trade the powder to someone who does.

[smokeywolf]

4227 is my go-to powder for 218 Bee. As I understand it, it excels in 357 Mag. I'll have to look into Shiloh's use for my 03 Springfield.

smokeywolf

[Thumbcocker]

.44 mag and .30 carbine in my experience.

[sw282]

lt works great in 221 Fireball

[JeffinNZ]

100% load density in .32-20 with a 115gr GC boolit and a crimp.

[subsonic]

[smilie=s: Makes good fertilizer!

[Kraschenbirn]

4227 is my 'go to' for heavy boolits in the .41 Mag and I've also used it successfully with 'heavies' (170-180 grainers) in .357s for a 10" Contender. Years ago, I shot a lot of the old IMR4227 in .22 Hornets...also in a Contender...but found 1680 more accurate in my Ruger #3 so haven't tried any of the current production.

Bill

[GP100man]

My exp mirrors 44mans , my groups opened but never knew why until now !!!

The first 6-18 shots (depending on ambient temp) would be good then it was PATTERING wish I had a chrony back then .

I reserve it now for the Lee 310gr boolit in 44 as it seems the recoil is`nt as "snappy" with 4227

[res45]

I still have about 1/2 lb. left over from my 22 Hornet days and occasionally shoot it with some 158 gr. GC cast loads in my Ruger BH. It's proved to be an excellent powder using 13.5 grs.

[RobS]

Good in the 357, 44 mag, 45 Colt and it would be OK in the short barreled 454 but in the 45 cal class it would work better with a 300 grain boolit. The 365 grain boolit would be better suited with H110 in a Ruger 45 Colt and in the Casull with a shorter barrel probably better with #9 or Enforcer. Don't get me wrong the 265 in the 45's would be ok with 4227 just don't expect high velocities with the powder. I used 4227 for mid loads or slightly more with heavier boolits for caliber and it fills the nitch pretty well.

[longbow]

I use a lot of 4227 in .308, .303 British and .44 mag... but all in rifles.

I find it is quite versatile and gives me good accuracy.

I normally load up to 24 grs. under a 240 - 250 gr. .44 boolit and 18 to 22 grs. under a 170 gr. boolit in .308 or 170 to 225 gr. boolit in .303.

It works for me.

Longbow

[303Guy]

Are other 4227's the same? Like H4227?

Jeff, are you using IMR4227 or our local AR2205?

[ihmsakiwi]

About 3 years ago, I picked up 4 lbs of IMR 4227 with intentions of using in some .44 Magnums with 240 grain cast SWC. I never did so. Well, now I am trying to find the best use for this powder instead of letting it just sit.

I reload for .38 Special (2" and 4" barrels), .357 Magnum (2 3/4", 4", 6" barrels), .44 Magnum (4" and 6 1/2" barrels), .45 Colt and .454 Casull (2 1/2" barrel). Would any of these calibers and barrel lengths be a good choice for IMR 4227? If so, which ones, what powder charge, what weight of cast bullet, etc.?

Thanks

My go to powder in 357 Mag, 44 Mag, 32 Mag, 22 Hornet 357 SuperMag (all with cast) and good for 40 shot matches in IHMSA. I have not experienced, or at least noticed any drop off in accuaracy as the pistols heat up. I have however now noted this as an excuse for misses which I hadn't as yet used!
I am just in the early stages of also trialling ADI2205 (H4227) in my 15" .223 pistol with 55gr boolits. So far looking promising. Peter

[44man]

My go to powder in 357 Mag, 44 Mag, 32 Mag, 22 Hornet 357 SuperMag (all with cast) and good for 40 shot matches in IHMSA. I have not experienced, or at least noticed any drop off in accuaracy as the pistols heat up. I have however now noted this as an excuse for misses which I hadn't as yet used!
I am just in the early stages of also trialling ADI2205 (H4227) in my 15" .223 pistol with 55gr boolits. So far looking promising. Peter
Not an excuse with the .44. What you will see is shots will hit lower and lower so you need to add clicks. When I got to the last ram I was 16 clicks over normal and still hit 50 meters short.
I went to 296 and won Ohio state with 79 out of 80 with my SBH, missed the last ram from being burned out! After running 20 turkeys and 19 rams, my mind did head games on me.
I shot many 40's with 296 while those that used either 4227 cussed.
Other calibers did not do that and I shot a 39 with a Ruger .357 max using 4227 WITHOUT SIGHT SETTINGS on my new gun.
Something about the .44 even though I shot very small groups at 200 meters sighting the gun in but it did not get hot.
Even reducing the load in the .44 gave me flat primers. Most guys used 25 gr with a 240 gr and I went down to 21.5 with flat primers.
I actually looked at my gun several times to see what broke! :veryconfu
I was shooting at a cardboard chicken at 200 meters with a pistol, took the last 2 shots with my .44 using 296 and this is what I got.

[willy3]

I've been using it for .30 Carbine for 40 years and it works great.. Don't think it would do well in a 2" pistol, though..

[beefyz]

I haven't put together a bad load using IMR 4227. use it in the m1 carbine, 32-20, & .357 rifle loads. hopefully will soon use it in 30-30 cast loads. was on the line once with hodgdon rep, & if i'm remembering correctly, h4227 are close enough to be interchangeable BUT PLEASE VERIFY THIS THRU HODGDON or maybe somebody else will chime in.

[swheeler]

I think it is good powder for heavy bullet/boolit 357 mag loads, 170 to 195 gr for me.

[MT Chambers]

For me: .218 Bee, .44 mag., .454 casull, also reduced (breach seated) loads in the 32/40 and 25/20 single shot.

[swheeler]

I use a lot of 4227 in .308, .303 British and .44 mag... but all in rifles.

I find it is quite versatile and gives me good accuracy.

I normally load up to 24 grs. under a 240 - 250 gr. .44 boolit and 18 to 22 grs. under a 170 gr. boolit in .308 or 170 to 225 gr. boolit in .303.

It works for me.

Longbow

God bless you! For me it is excellent in heavy cast loads in 357 mag

[303Guy]

I t seems to me that there is a possibility of Funny things happening with 4227 in large cases, be it with higher pressure loads or 'reduced' loads. I found it necessary to use a semi-bulk filler to stabilize pressure (call that getting consistent primer flattening, muzzle blast, and velocity). I've heard a few reports of excess pressure symptoms from light loads and I know that insufficient pressure leaves lots of partially burned granules. I'm going to suggest for safety sake not to use it in rifle cases without a bulk filler and maybe not even then. Dacron (polyester fibre) is not a bulk filler. It is a powder positioner only - a good one at that. It is better to err on the side of caution.

[swheeler]

I t seems to me that there is a possibility of Funny things happening with 4227 in large cases, be it with higher pressure loads or 'reduced' loads. I found it necessary to use a semi-bulk filler to stabilize pressure (call that getting consistent primer flattening, muzzle blast, and velocity). I've heard a few reports of excess pressure symptoms from light loads and I know that insufficient pressure leaves lots of partially burned granules. I'm going to suggest for safety sake not to use it in rifle cases without a bulk filler and maybe not even then. Dacron (polyester fibre) is not a bulk filler. It is a powder positioner only - a good one at that. It is better to err on the side of caution.

303; I don't know if I agree with that, hell most of em have all their fingers and both eyes, who needs all that? life goes on

[303Guy]

True! But I'd like 'em all to stay that way - with both eyes and all their fingers and most imortantly, with all their guns! :drinks:

I stopped using 4227 after you good folks warned me, for which I thank you. That's when I started really looking into it. Mind you, if I recall, I was getting a little worried about my observations with 4227 and actually posed a question on the safety of 4227 under cirtain conditions. Like I said -it is better to err on the side of caution! I'm only suggesting that things could go funny, not that they will. Just be carefull with the stuff.

Just because I've used it safely and others have used it safely does not mean the next persons conditions will also be safe. Conditions are never quite the same and it's worst case scenario we need to be thinking of.

[swheeler]

True! But I'd like 'em all to stay that way - with both eyes and all their fingers and most imortantly, with all their guns! :drinks:

I stopped using 4227 after you good folks warned me, for which I thank you. That's when I started really looking into it. Mind you, if I recall, I was getting a little worried about my observations with 4227 and actually posed a question on the safety of 4227 under cirtain conditions. Like I said -it is better to err on the side of caution! I'm only suggesting that things could go funny, not that they will. Just be carefull with the stuff.

Just because I've used it safely and others have used it safely does not mean the next persons conditions will also be safe. Conditions are never quite the same and it's worst case scenario we need to be thinking of.

303:I agree with what you said completely. I do believe this this powder is the odd man out, so far as I've found, but then what do I know, I don't spend that much time on the internet.:):):):):):):):) so I'm not an xpurt

[swheeler]

Where the heck is Smokin joe when you need a real xpurt?:

[sthwestvictoria]

I stopped using 4227 after you good folks warned me, for which I thank you. That's when I started really looking into it. Mind you, if I recall, I was getting a little worried about my observations with 4227 and actually posed a question on the safety of 4227 under cirtain conditions. Like I said -it is better to err on the side of caution! I'm only suggesting that things could go funny, not that they will. Just be carefull with the stuff.


This is a concern - I actually purchased a canister of AR2205 (H4227) today with the idea of using it for 30-30 cast loads. What led me to consider this is actually semi-published data from ADI.
55780

This data was emailed to me by ADI from their reloading inquiry service (great service by the way). In terms of reduced loads - what do you consider a reduced load? 15grains? (their starting load). I have put 15grains in a case and it probably only fills 2/5 of the case, less than I was expecting.

Do you think their loads are safe? Pressures seem reasonable, equivalent to Trail boss at listed maximum loads (other ADI information sheets give 29000cup at 9.0grains TB with 160grain cast)

[odis]

This last year I bought a mold from Tom at Accurate the 31-170E, I use 17grs of IMR4227 under it for my wifes 788 in 30-30. For now I can't see shooting anything else out of it and she agrees.

[JLDickmon]

100% load density in .32-20 with a 115gr GC boolit and a crimp.

I'll second that.

[Larry Gibson]

sthwstvictoria

Those listed velocities and psi are averages. Also in testing the ballisticians load each round in the test barrel in a consistent and specific manner which positions the powder pretty much the same for each test shot. Most all shooters do not do either at the bench or, particularly, in the field. Thus the psi and velocities can vary greatly with such loads depending on "powder positioning". I have measured very large extreme spreads of velocity and psi in cartridges when using reduced/starting loads of 4227 (I have both makes of 4227 and it is the same with both....2400, 5744, H110/296 and 4957 also) with lighter weight cast bullets (like a 150 gr in the 30-30) with out a dacron filler. Those powders do not begin to burn efficiently until a certain psi is reached. Many times by then the velocity is too high when that efficient psi range is reached and accuracy suffers. BTW; I have measured as much as 200 fps ES or variation between the powder being against the primer or against the bullet. Obviously the psi varies a much larger amount also. "Pressure spikes" are common with such loads. Whether or not those "pressure spikes" are dangerous depends on the load and the conditions of the barrel and throat. Have the wrong conditions with the wrong load and an SEE is very possible.

As noted also in earlier posts it is very easy with such reduced loads to double charge a case. Consistent loading procedures are needed to prevent such. I have developed a simple yet effective rule for such loads. The rule is; the only cases in a loading block/tray are charged cases. I do not use a loading block to hold the cases during any other stage of the loading; small plastic bins are used or small boxes. Thus onece a case is in the loading block I know it has powder in it. After charging each case I also visually check the powder level before putting the case in the loading block. I developed the above after double charging cases too many times that were already in the loading block. Fortunately I caught all such double charged cases before seating a bullet. However, I learned a lesson.....

Larry Gibson

[44man]

Good observation Larry.
As I said it worked fine until my gun got hot and it worked fine in other calibers. I got it to shoot so good in the .44 when working loads I thought I would win every time but it was not to be. Guns get HOT shooting IHMSA. Many guys had battery fans blowing through barrels during target setting, some sprayed water with alcohol through barrels.
Two minutes for 5 shots was enough to see the POI going down with each shot. That means the velocity is climbing. I had good load density to start but started to reduce the load from 24 gr to 21.5, no change, did the same thing.
The powder seems to be more caliber and case specific then any other.

[FergusonTO35]

I used to shoot a lot of the Hodgdon version under a 158 grain J-word in my Marlin 1894 .357 carbine. Good accuracy and velocity around 1700 fps. These days I put 19 grains under a gas checked 115 grain boolit in my Marlin 336 .30 WCF for an accurate and fun load with same POI as my 150 grain hunting loads. I wouldn't hesitate to try the IMR version in either one but I wonder if H110 might be better in these applications.

[sthwestvictoria]

I have measured very large extreme spreads of velocity and psi in cartridges when using reduced/starting loads of 4227 (I have both makes of 4227 and it is the same with both....2400, 5744, H110/296 and 4957 also) with lighter weight cast bullets (like a 150 gr in the 30-30) with out a dacron filler. Larry Gibson

Drat. Well I may just have to hold onto the canister of AR2205 and not use it in the 30-30. I suppose this in a sign from the gods that I need a .357 lever. I have some AP70N (Hodgdons Universal) ordered and will use that instead. Same information about care with double loading is useful however.

[Southern Shooter]

Since I have 2 revolvers in .357 Magnum with 6"+ barrels and a Marlin 1894c, and from the input here, I think that I will designate that 4 lbs of Australian made IMR 4227 primarily as my .357 Magnum powder.

When I use it for .44 Magnums, it will be for when just firing off a shoot here and there or when I am in very cold climate.

For the these two calibers and the IMR 4227, would these two bullets work well?
55805
TL358-158-SWC
55807
TL430-240-SWC

[FergusonTO35]

Drat. Well I may just have to hold onto the canister of AR2205 and not use it in the 30-30. I suppose this in a sign from the gods that I need a .357 lever.

You'd be correct there. ;-)

[fredj338]

It's a great upper end powder for lead bullets in any of the magnum rev rounds.

[L Ross]

Extremely popular powder with us breech seatin' schuetzen shooters. 14.0 gr. of IMR-4227 breech seated in a 32-40 case under a 200 gr bullet, wonderfully accurate. Conventionally loaded I also use 14 gr in 30-30, 32 win. spl. 7x57. 16 gr in 30-06, 18 gr in 38-55 and 35 whelen, 20 gr in 45 Colt. The only thing about 4227 I don't like is running out of it.

Duke

[JeffinNZ]

Are other 4227's the same? Like H4227?

Jeff, are you using IMR4227 or our local AR2205?

If you check out the MSDS on the Hodgdon site they are all the same powder.

[SgtDog0311]

I recently worked up some loads for my Marlin 1894 CB in 45Colt with some Ranch Dog 290gr. Shot several loads but 19.2gr of 4227 was acceptable (avg velocity @ 1215). 1 & 1/8" at 50 yds. Most of five round groups I chronographed had extreme spreads around 60 or so. Did have a lot of popcorn in the barrel. Had some Marbles sight issues so decided to have another look another day.

[JeffinNZ]

Try a little bit of crimp on your loads SgtDog0311 and see it that helps the burn.

[sthwestvictoria]

Quote Originally Posted by sthwestvictoria View Post
Drat. Well I may just have to hold onto the canister of AR2205 and not use it in the 30-30. I suppose this in a sign from the gods that I need a .357 lever.


You'd be correct there. ;-)

When the .357 mold came along without me having anything in that calibre I thought it was actually a sign I needed a 35 whelen. Maybe it was for a .357 lever - why so many choices?

[SgtDog0311]

Thanks Jeff... I'll sure do it.

[H.Callahan]

When the .357 mold came along without me having anything in that calibre I thought it was actually a sign I needed a 35 whelen. Maybe it was for a .357 lever - why so many choices?
Close. It was a sign that you needed to buy both. When you acquire something that has uses in multiple cartridges, you are obligated to purchase at least one of each caliber that it could be used in.

I don't make the rules....

:-D

[NVScouter]

45lc rifle loads and its my #1 22 hornet powder. My 308 starter loads were decent and I plan on trying it in 30-06.
I heard it referred to as a 2400 alternative so if 2400 can be used you can find similar 4227 data. Us it meters beautifully. If it hadn't been for Bullshop I would have never picked up any....

[bowhunter]

44 sp. and 45LC it it outstanding! but it needs a mag primer to burn it all because of the slow speed of the powder.

[sthwestvictoria]

I have been reading Timothy Mullins book Letters from Elmer Keith. This is page 96:
59435

[NYBushBro]

I have been reading Timothy Mullins book Letters from Elmer Keith. This is page 96:
59435

Interesting... Elmer's 44 load of 22 grains 2400 matches Phil Sharpe's load of 22 grains 2400 in the trapdoor Springfield (... and the 43 Spanish.)

[TJF1]

I have been having good lock with 4227 in my
h&r 500sw with 380 gr. Boolit
terry

[TJF1]

I have been having good luck with 4227 in my
h&r 500sw with 380 gr. Boolit
terry

[NVScouter]

Forgot to add 357 Herrett 125-180g loads. I get less unburnt powder than my R7 loads. My 300WBY shooting 224g Lyman is looking promising with it too.

[Casper29]

I use it in my 357 and in my 7.62 x 54 works very well in both