Air Cool vs. Water Quench

[Boyscout]

I just tested my first batch of Lee C430-310 RFN, WW +2% tin, air cooled and water quenched. Using a Lee hardness tested my results were 13.4 BHN and 20.9 BHN. Is this a normal spread for air cooled vs water quench? I was suprised to reach 13.4 BHN without any super hard or additional tin.

My "process" for quenching is to drop my bullets on a towel, ladle or bottom pour my mould, let the sprue cool and then do a quick visual on the last drop and then place them in the water or push aside. It seems to give me a good rythm. Would quenching them sooner result in a harder bullet? I am planning on using this bullet for my .44 Rem Mag Handi-rifle next fall and want to start experimenting now. Is a hard bullet achieved by water quench tougher than one that is arrived at by additional antimony? Seems more economical than to use Roto-metal 70/30 for this application. I want some expansion and don't want the bullet to break up.

[Frozone]

well, it's likely more a result of measurement errors in the LEE hardness tester. :-)

It's a little on the high side but only by 3 or 4.
It depends on the WW alloy but aircooled is more often in the 10 - 13.
For my WW+2%, I get results closer to 11 and 17.
if you really want control of the hardness try oven treating. Well over 30bhn with just WW +2% is possible, but brittle.
As a general rule the hotter the boolit is when it gets quenched the harder it will be.

[Boyscout]

12 and 15 was about what I was expecting as my WW straight runs about 11 BHN. Maybe my eyes are getting old; I have a really hard time reading the thing. I read it twice to double check my readings and got the same answers. I suppose if I read it wrong the same way each time I will be consistant. I only want my bullets hard enough to not lead and still work well on whitetail.

[williamwaco]

13 is about normal for air cooled clip on wheel weights.

don't know about water cooled, I don't like hard bullets.

If you want expansion, you are not going to get it from 21BNH cast bullets.

I don't use the microscope unless I have a vice or something to hold the bullet in alignment with the scope. Too hard to read.

I use my digital caliper with some 2x clip ons over my glasses.

The readings are the same but much easier with the caliper.

.

[canyon-ghost]

Let me play devil's advocate here, with conventional wisdom. I drop them straight out of the mold into a bucket of cold water.

You want a demonstration of the hardness difference? Just drop some on a towel and take out a hammer. Retrieve one out of the bucket or water drop. With both cooled to the point you can handle them, stand them on the base on concrete and smack them with the hammer. Try to hit them both exactly the same. You'll see the difference immediately! The water quenched bullet will deform very little, just some on the nose.

There's a lot of understanding to be gained with manual experimentation.

Good Luck,
Ron

[Starvnhuntr]

position your boolits base to base and put them in a vise with the points toward the jaws. start sqeezing and you will see the difference in hardness imediately.

[454PB]

When I water drop, it's straight from the mould to the water. Wheel weights vary in hardness, but most of mine are about 12-13 BHN. Water dropped and aged 2 weeks, they test around 20-21 BHN.

[Boyscout]

I'll save the water drop for .45 ACP, 40 S&W., rifle target bullets. Is Alloy 2 too hard for hunting? The Lyman Castload manual seems to recommend pretty hard bullets for .357 Mag and 44 Rem Mag. I did shoot some 240gn gas checked 240 SWC, Liquid Alox, cake cut bullets at 17 BHN with really good accuracy.

[Evltwn]

I put a deep fryer insert into a 5 gallon bucket, fill it half way, and take an old tee shirt with a hole in it, drape it over the bucket and push it down until it is just in contact with the water. I drop the boolits directly out of the mould onto the shirt...that breaks their fall into the bottom of the bucket and into the insert. Just be careful of water splash!!!

[357maximum]

Your alloy in that caliber and that boolit will kill any deer that walks this continent regardless of whether it is waterdropped or not. Shoot both wd'd and ac'd for accuracy, compare the targets and shoot what one the gun wants to shoot with your given load. This is a definitive K.I.S.S situation.

[captaint]

If I were going to hunt with them, I would pour them from 50WW and 50Pb and put gas checks on them. Nice wide meplat. That's what I did for my 38-55. Can't say I've shot a deer with it yet, however. Guess we'll see. enjoy Mike