"Ruger Only" .45 ACP Loads?

[Treetop]

Well I just bought my second Old Model Ruger .45 Convertible a couple of weeks ago. The first one I sold 30 years or so ago. The .45 ACP cylinder that came with this recent six shooter must have spent most or all of it's life, nestled in it's little red flannel bag because there is no discernible cylinder ring.

The other day, I shot several cylinders full of my old .45 ACP competition loads (H&G #68 over 5.2 gr. of W/W 231) and they shot way high at 25 yds. just like I anticipated.

After two low back surgeries and a total of 3 fused vertebrae, my action pistol days are sadly, now behind me. So, I'm left with 5-6K pieces of .45 ACP brass and only 150-200 pieces of .45 Colt brass.

My plan is to load a 454424 in .45 ACP brass and starting safely low, try different loads until my POA and POI are close. I loaded a couple of dummy rounds, one with the Keith bullet roll crimped into the crimp groove and one with the boolit seated all the way to the shoulder and crimped. I was hoping the dummy with the boolit crimped into the crimp groove would chamber in the .45 ACP cylinder but it wouldn't seat in any of the 6 chambers. The dummy round with the boolit seated to the shoulder and crimped, chambered fine in all six chambers.

So that leaves me with less usable powder space in the already stubby ACP case. Am I wrong in thinking that I can achieve POA/POI with this combination safely using Unique or slower powders in this small powder space? Maybe Blue Dot or HS-6..?

Have any of you tried this before? If I can work up a reasonable load, I will load these as my standard practice/fun loads and save .45 Colt cases for deer/hog loads. Any help or suggestions appreciated.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to achieve 1,000 fps with this combination, just trying to get my POA/POI close. Thanks, Tt.

[jmsj]

Treetop,
Sorry to hear about your back problems.
Awhile back I fitted a 45 ACP cylinder to my Ruger Bisley Vaquero. This gun has fixed sights and my 45 target loads were not close to POA of the fixed sights. I tried some of my heavier loads and they did hit right on at POA at 25 yds. The load was the Lee 452-255-RF (sized .452"and lubed w/FWFL), Wolf LP and 5.8 grains of Unique. I don't have my notes with me but if I remember correctly these ran about 875fps. This was with the fixed sights of the Vaquero, with your adjustable sights this should make dialing in a little easier at least at 25 yards.
The throats on this cylinder did need to be opened up and polished a little. Good luck, jmsj

[tek4260]

Like jmsj stated, the throats are the only hold up. Send the cylinder to CAS, www.cylindersmith.com and he can open them up where you can load the boolits long and crimp in the groove.

You should be able to easily get 1K fps from your revolver with that boolit, which will probably get your sights right.

[Guesser]

I have a NMBH convertible that I'm working up heavy bullet loads in 45 ACP. I'm using 454423, it drops at 248 grains in my alloy. Will be interesting when we all get our loads perfected. I have a 454424 that drops at 266 grains; hhhhmmmmm!!!!!!!

[Treetop]

Treetop,
Sorry to hear about your back problems.
Awhile back I fitted a 45 ACP cylinder to my Ruger Bisley Vaquero. This gun has fixed sights and my 45 target loads were not close to POA of the fixed sights. I tried some of my heavier loads and they did hit right on at POA at 25 yds. The load was the Lee 452-255-RF (sized .452"and lubed w/FWFL), Wolf LP and 5.8 grains of Unique. I don't have my notes with me but if I remember correctly these ran about 875fps. This was with the fixed sights of the Vaquero, with your adjustable sights this should make dialing in a little easier at least at 25 yards.
The throats on this cylinder did need to be opened up and polished a little. Good luck, jmsj

jmsj, that's exactly the information I'm looking for. Thank you.

Even with a bad back now, I'm still a blessed individual. When I look back on all the things that I've subjected my back to, over the years, I'm amazed that it lasted as long as it did!

Football all through school, a hitch in the Marines, where they took full advantage of the big, strong, dumb, tall guy from Texas. "Hey Gunny, whose going to carry the extra M-60 cans?" "Aw, just give 'em to Treetop, he'll carry anything you give him..."

Then the Marines found out I could play Rugby football, so I played for the MCAS Kaneohe Bay team in Hawaii. I could go on, but you get the picture, I haven't been kind to my back over the years and now, this time, it's failed me for good.

Anyhow, thanks again for the load information! Tt.

[Treetop]

Like jmsj stated, the throats are the only hold up. Send the cylinder to CAS, www.cylindersmith.com and he can open them up where you can load the boolits long and crimp in the groove.

You should be able to easily get 1K fps from your revolver with that boolit, which will probably get your sights right.

Thanks for that website, tek. My throats are all different sizes, the largest is 0.4515" so I should definitely send it in. I haven't Cerrosafed" my .45 Colt cylinder yet, but I suspect that it's going to be tight also...

[Treetop]

I have a NMBH convertible that I'm working up heavy bullet loads in 45 ACP. I'm using 454423, it drops at 248 grains in my alloy. Will be interesting when we all get our loads perfected. I have a 454424 that drops at 266 grains; hhhhmmmmm!!!!!!!

Guesser, I have a Mihec 454423 clone that drops 242 gr. using 1/2 COWWS (clip on WWs) and 1/2 SOWWS (stick on WWs). I think it would be legitimate heavy bullet load also.

[Tracy]

Check out this article by John Taffin:
http://www.sixguns.com/range/45ACPSixguns.htm

Keep in mind that 2400 is by all accounts, slightly faster now than it was in 1973.

I have loaded the 454424 over 2400 in .45 ACP for use in both 1911s and a Ruger Blackhawk. I always seated the boolit to the shoulder so it would feed in my 1911 (22 lb recoil spring).

[bigboredad]

Check out hanloads.com. there you will find a article about loading the .45acp in the blackhawk. I have loaded the rcbs 45-270saa in the .45acp. Cylinder with great results and its a lot of fun.

[35remington]

Let me very strongly caution you about some of Mr. Taffin's loads. For example, with an authentic looking 452423 (square lube grooves, equal driving bands, weighs 246 grains) I get 970 fps with 6.8 grains Unique, and around 1000 fps using 13.0 grains 2400, this in a 5 inch 625-3. And when crimped in the groove rather than seated deeper in the case. I use Auto Rim cases but for all practical purposes they are identical to the 45 ACP case in capacity.

In my guns I pass on using charges as heavy as Mr. Taffin's and for darn good reason. You should too until you establish just where you're at, starting from well below. Bullet seating depth and exact variant matter a lot in the stubby case. Don't attempt to establish upper end loads without a chronograph. If you don't have one, no upper end loads for you. It's just that simple.

I know that you aren't trying to establish 1000 fps loads, but unknowingly following Mr. Taffin's suggestions can get you there (and beyond) without knowing it, even had you reduced the charge. My loads are well below his yet I get substantially higher velocity....and you might, too.

[bigboredad]

Something else that if you open your. Cylinder throats you will be able to seat your bullets out quite a bit farther. So as 35remington advised start low and work up. You should be able to Accomplish what you are after pretty easily

[scattershot]

I have had very good luck with a 250 grain boolit and 6.5 Unique, in the .45ACP case. These shoot to POA in a SAA clone, and are pretty comfortable to shoot, as well.

[Treetop]

After checking the throats on both cylinders, I'm going to have to send them both to the Cylindersmith before pursuing this Ruger only .45ACP project any further. I really want to be able to crimp my boolits in the crimp grooves in my 454423 and 454424 boolits. I will send the cylinders to the Cylindersmith, right after the first of the year.

Thanks for all of your advice and load data. I can barely wait to use it, but Santa comes first around here, with 5 grand kids! Tt.

[Freischütz]

I'd take a look at the heavy 45 Auto Rim loads in the Speer Nr 8 manual.

[Treetop]

I'd take a look at the heavy 45 Auto Rim loads in the Speer Nr 8 manual.

I don't have the Speer #8 manual but I have the #9 and #10. They list some healthy loads for their 250 swaged bullet, but mostly using powders that I can't get anymore.

I still have some old Alcan AL-5, 7, and 8. All of those are listed. I may as well use it up on these, after I have my cylinder throated. Tt.

[Dale53]

Treetop;
I have a Bisley SS .45 Colt/.45 ACP Convertible. I also have a couple of Smith 625's in .45 ACP.

You will not be able to roll crimp .45 ACP cases in the Ruger as the cases headspace on the case mouth. There will be nothing to maintain headspace. That is not a problem with the Smith revolvers as they can use full moon clips (not possible with the Ruger). I shoot a 250 gr Keith (NOE clone of the Lyman 454424) in my Smith's in either the .45 ACP (use full moon clips to maintain headspace) or .45 Auto Rim and can roll crimp either. However, in the Ruger I taper crimp .45 ACP cases. That works fine with up to 230 gr bullets but I frankly haven't tried the 250's in the Ruger. They may work or the heavier bullets may jump the crimp. You'll just have to try and see.

Crimping in the 250 gr Keith's crimp groove I get 900+ fps chronographed with 7.0 grs of Unique. It makes a FINE field load.

Dale53

[Ruger45Bisley]

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=41

I've got a .45 ACP cylinder for my BBH and load for .45 Super too, but I've not tried any of these myself.

[skeettx]

Treetop
Where in Texas, I have some AL-7 and AL-8 and we might be close enough to swap stuff
Mike

[tacklebury]

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=41

I've got a .45 ACP cylinder for my BBH and load for .45 Super too, but I've not tried any of these myself.

I tested all those loads by Jerry. They are VERY snappy, but not unsafe. Only heavier loads I've fired were 300 gr. JHP (xtp magnums) over 23 gr. H110 in .45 Colt.

[45sixgun]

With my NM Convertible I shoot 255 gr. bullets with 9.2 grains of Unique in Long Colt and 200 gr. bullets with 6 grains of Unique in ACP. I've even shot the bigger bullets in the ACP cases and really jammed them down to get them short enough. Both rounds are accurate and hit to same POA. Both bullets are RNFP. Congrats on the gun. Hope it brings you as much pleasure as mine has brought me.

[Treetop]

Treetop
Where in Texas, I have some AL-7 and AL-8 and we might be close enough to swap stuff
Mike

skeet, I'm in SE Texas! :-? I drove to Amarillo once, didn't think I'd EVER get there! :mrgreen: Tt.

[Treetop]

My computer died on Christmas day, so I haven't visited this thread in a while, all I can say is, "Thanks" for all the helpful posts. These were exactly the types of responses that I needed!

Now, to get my two .45 cylinders off to the Cylindersmith, while it's still legal to do so! Tt.

[skeettx]

YUP
about 800 miles
That is a long way to go to swap powder :)
Good luck
Mike

[BCRider]

Am I missing something here? A lot of the responses so far list heavier bullet options. Yet the original post says that the gun is already shooting high.

Now there's two ways to lower the POI. One is to use a lighter bullet so it comes out sooner with the same pressure and the other is to step up the pressure to spit them out faster. But it seems like all the options here are looking at upping the bullet weight and then trying to hot rod the round to get the bullet to hit lower. Seems like you're all stacking the deck against achieving the goal. Or did I miss something?

It's possible since you are all tossing around mold numbers without mentioning the bullet weight. And the mold numbers mean nothing to me.

In any event it would seem to me like the best way to go is to drop down to a 200 gn boolit and then power it up to achieve a matched POA vs POI. But like I say, perhaps I missed something reading down the posts in the first page of replies.

[MT Chambers]

I had a convertible as well as other .45 revolvers and I would just load the heavier bullets/loads in the revolver case and you can crimp them all you want, you'll be fighting that with the ACP loads/cyl.

[Treetop]

I finally sent my two undersized .45 cylinders to "Cylindersmith, ten days ago and received them in the mail today! He did an excellent job and the turn around time was great. Thanks to several posters who recommended him!

Now, let the Ruger only, .45 ACP experimenting begin...!