Which barrel

[Beekeeper]

Am going to have to rebarrel a M98 Mauser that I have.
Was thinking 7X57 but a friend suggested 7MM/08.
Checked the ballistics of both and there is not much diference at least to me anyway!
Would like someones opinion either way.


beekeeper

[303Guy]

If it were me there would be no doubt - 7x57! It fits like a glove and for me has a certain romantic appeal. It does produce it's performance at a lower pressure so case life might be better. It has a longer neck too.

[waksupi]

Going with a 98, assuming it was originally chambered in 8X57, I would go with the 7X57 to avoid the feed issues your run into converting over to the .308 based case of the 7-08.

[Beekeeper]

I can go either way as the original was aM98 Mauser in 8X57 purchased by the Israele's and converted to 308.So the Mag well has the conversion piece already in it


beekeeper

[nhrifle]

I've always wanted to see one in 260 Remington. Great bullets, easy brass to make, incredibly accurate cartridge, and light recoil.

[303Guy]

I still like the 7x57. I suppose the advantage of the 7-08 is that it is more modern and not a military cartridge so the specs would be for accuracy rather than reliability and it would be designed for the lighter bullets. But that is speaking of jaxketeds. Cast may well be a different animal where heavier boolits might be indicated to take advantage of the rifle and chambering. I'd think the heavy cast sevens would have a excellent BC's for longer ranges and a higher sectional density for penetration on game.

Then again who says the 7x57 has any advantage with cast at all? It'll be the same action so long boolits would be no problem at all and brass for the 7-08 would be lying around the countryside, it being a necked down 308. Is it possible that the larger throat and longer neck of the 7x57 would allow for a higher cast boolit velocity? It will require a semi-custom mold to take full advantage of it, I should think.

[Buckshot]

.............Jim, the 7x57 in a strong modern 98 action isn't the same 7x57 as was loaded for the M93 Spanish, M94 Brazilian or M95 Chileans at 42 - 45K lbs. The 7-08 wins it's spurs ballistically at modern 55K+ pressures. You can achieve the same with the 7x57 at lower pressures, or exceed the 'shorty' if you go with modern load data for the 7x57 in that M98 action. Simply cannot deny that the older case has more room in it. If it was me, I'd go with the longer 7x57 so long as the alterations done to feed the shorter cartridge weren't too difficult to remove.

.............Buckshot

[shredder]

Going with a 98, assuming it was originally chambered in 8X57, I would go with the 7X57 to avoid the feed issues your run into converting over to the .308 based case of the 7-08.

This.

Regardless of conversions, the action and feed rails were precisely dimensioned for the original cartridge alone and will feed and run better with it's original brass in the mag.

[nekshot]

If castboolit shooting is the game I,ll take the longer neck over shorter every time. I have both 7-08 and 7x57 and I throw my hat into the 57"s corner because of neck length. 168 gr boolits are really long in this caliber.

[TNsailorman]

Got to go with the 7x57mm. With its extra case capacity you can use slower burning powders and with the 98's stronger action, that mean 50,000 psi. Plus the longer neck and you have some real potential. Long and slow cast bullets ought to be the ticket also. If you were going to make up a 18 to 20" carbine for close woods work, I would recommend you go 7mmx08. well, you did ask, james

[MtGun44]

7-08 is really short on powder space if you want to use heavy bullets or boolits and feed through the
magazine. I can safely get 160 Nosler Partiitions to 2700 fps with 7x57, using W760 powder. Not enough
space to make this work in 7-08. 7-08 is a real step backwards, IMO, sad that it has basically killed the
better 7x57.

Bill

[303Guy]

I will always be in the 7x57 corner. Just thinking on the comment about slower powder in the '57, the same would apply to cast would it not? The 30-06 seems to do very well with cast. Is that because the large case keeps peak pressure low even with faster powders? I prefer heavier boolits as well as bullets. Buckshot summed it up pretty well.

I can understand the 7-08 which fits in modern short actions but on an M98 action? K98 for the Israelis actually. Same thing.

[Bullshop]

[QUOTE=MtGun44;1951344]7-08 is really short on powder space if you want to use heavy bullets or boolits and feed through the
magazine. I can safely get 160 Nosler Partiitions to 2700 fps with 7x57, using W760 powder. Not enough
space to make this work in 7-08. 7-08 is a real step backwards, IMO, sad that it has basically killed the
better 7x57.

Bill
I find that comment interesting because I feel the same way about the 243 Win and 6mm Rem battle. Same outcome same cases just different caliber. This to the point that I dont know of a factory available 6mm but 243 are common as dirt.
Maybe a 30x57?

[Larry Gibson]

+1 on the 7x57. Might as well take advantage of the magazine length and avoid potential feeding problems mentioned with the 7-08. Loaded to the same psi the 7x57 out performs the 7-08 also. Additionally, for cast bullets, the longer neck of the 7x57 is a plus.

Larry Gibson

[MtGun44]

Bullshop - we are in exact agreement. The 6mm was a better cartridge ballistically, BUT
many were not able to fully stabilize 100 gr bullets because Rem built it with varmint wt
bullets in mind. Gun writers publicised this and the sales plummeted. I had a friend with
a 6mm Rem and it was a sweet rifle. Took it prairie dogging in SD and he shot some
out to about 450-500 yds, with some wind, really impressive. Of course, at the end
of the day our shoulders (I was using 120 gr in my 7x57, also took one at 500
yds + ) were really sore! 40 and 55 gr bullets are a lot easier if you shoot all day
prone!

Add to this sad fact that the short action rifle are very popular, and 6mm and 7x57 won't
fit into the mag and you have the death knell for 6mm sooner and deader than the wonderful
7x57.

I shoot all the way through an elk with 160 Nosler Partition at 2700, about 3 feet into the
stomach of a kudu from the front and through every deer I have shot with it. The owner of Highveldt Taxidermy
showed me a couple scrapbooks of all huge numbers of African game he had taken - when
I asked what cartidge - 7x57 and what load - 160 Nosler Partition. He even used it for lion
and such (yikes!) :shock: and had complete success. He took Cape Buff with a SA bullet called a
Rhino that I am not familiar with. (double yikes!) :shock::shock:

He had a nice custom Mauser, mine is a Ruger 77.
Bill

[x101airborne]

If you would like, I have an AB barrel short chambered in 7x57 I would sell and I have the reamer and headspace gauges if you want to try it yourself. A PM would secure it.

[littlejack]

If you are looking to get all the speed out of the cartridge with jacketed, how about the 7x57 AI.
I have an 8mm-06 AI and just love it. I shoot a Hornaday 195 grain jacketed at 2800 fps.
Just my .02 out loud.
Jack

[303Guy]

A short chambered 7x57 would solve all problems. No difference for cast as they bore ride and ballistically better bullets to modernise the cartridge (assuming that not everyone plans on shooting large African game) for flatter shooting. That without loss of heavy bullet performance with modern loading. Go for that offer!

[HighHook]

The 7x57 is such a versatile cartridge. One of my favorites. A custom m98 7x57.... Cant go wrong there.

[Beekeeper]

I ordered a 7x57 MM Adams and bennet barrel yesterday.
Now I only have to figure out how to hand finish ream the chamber when I get it since there are no gunsmiths in SoCal who work on Mausers anymore.


beekeeper

[Larry Gibson]

If you don't want to attempt the job then rent a reamer and come over to Lake Havasu City and we'll do it (I know how, have the tools, and have done a lot of Mauser rebarreling). I'm moving into a new place so it might take several weeks to get my shop set back up though.

Larry Gibson

[Beekeeper]

Thanks for the offer Larry!
I am gonna try to do it myself, the hard way probably, but the school of hard knocks is a wonderful teacher.
Only problem I see so far is the doing by hand when everyone says it can't be done that way.
CH4D has the reamers and gages for rent so am gonna give the old destroyermans try.


beekeeper

[Larry Gibson]

Hell, it's easy to do by hand and can be done very well without alignment problems. When you get the barrel and install it on the action give me a call and I'll tell you what else you need and how. PM me and we'll talk you through it via phone?

Larry Gibson

[nhrifle]

Beekeeper, like Larry said it's easy. I rebarrelled a 1903a3 Springfield that Bubba had had his way with a couple years ago. It was a short chambered NOS barrel and I had to take I think about .050" out of the chamber. I bought a finish reamer from Midwayusa.com. Make sure you use some sort of actual metalworking cutting oil as a lube for the reamer, not just whatever motor oil or cooking oil you happen to have lying around. I used Tap Magic that I got from Enco and believe me, it makes a huge difference in the quality of the finished product.

Here's how I went. Install and torque the barrel. Clean it. Swab it. Clean it again. Clamp the barrel to a work surface at a comfortable height so you have both hands free to work.

The drive end of my reamer is a 3/8" square so I used a 12" - 3/8 drive socket extension as a driver to reach into the chamber through the receiver and clamped a tap handle to the male end of the extension so I could turn the assembly. May as well clean the chamber and reamer again to make sure. Apply some cutting oil to all the cutting flutes and carfully insert the reamer into the chamber gently until you feel pressure. Don't force it and make sure not to turn it backwards as it will destroy the cutting edges. Also, don't just stop turning the reamer before removing it from the chamber to check headspace. Keep turning it while you release pressure.

To begin cutting, apply the lightest of force you can and as slowly and smoothly as you can, turn the reamer in the cutting direction. Take a few turns and remove the reamer while still turning. There will be little to no cutting chips on the reamer. This is how it should be. The reamer will cut barely at all at the start and continue cutting like that for awhile. Then when you begin to think you are doing something wrong you will feel it grab and begin to cut the full length of the chamber. That's when you start being real careful.

Clean the chips and oil from the chamber and reamer and check headpace. Make sure your gauges are clean too. The bolt shouldn't close on the go gauge yet.

Re-oil the reamer and start cutting again, repeating the cycle of a few turns, clean and check, then cut some more. Go slow. If you feel yourself getting impatient, walk away and come back later. In all, it really shouldn't take you that long to cut the chamber, but it will feel like it is taking a long time. Take your time, go slowly, pay attention to the feel of the cutting action, and don't rush or force anything and you will do just fine.

One more thing. Careful with those cutting flutes. They will slice you as easy as any knife. We don't need to go into why I know this...

If you have any questions or need advice, feel free to PM me. Good luck! Post some pics when you are done.

[swheeler]

BK; guess this means I'll be getting an Israeli 7.62 barrel in the near future, Good! Do yourself a favor and finish ream the barrel mounted vertically, I'm sure Larry knows.