Help with a Globe Front Sight

[Dragoon 45]

Recently purchased a Browning Highwall, which has had the front sight replaced. I cannot find any markings on the sight to tell who made it. The front sight uses the MVA style inserts (contour and diameter match), except these inserts are too thin (they mic out at .012), you can actually get two inserts into the slot (an insert .024 will go into the slot). It was mentioned to me that Parts Unknown front sights used a thicker insert than the MVA's, but I can't find anything to confirm that. Additionally I can't find anywhere that has insert cards for the Parts Unknown (or Red River Sights as I am now told they are known) for sale. Anyone have any info on this? I have always used the Lyman 17 style sights before.

Thank You.

[.22-10-45]

Hello, Dragoon 45. Can't help on sight cards..but if you can't find anything that fits..try www. distantthunderbpcr.com I had them make up inserts for an original Remington Mid-range .40-70..these have a little peg that points downward from bottom of R.H. side of insert..fits in corresponding hole in sight base. Had to try & fit a few times..but finally got a complete set made up. These guys can do just about anything!

[Mooseman]

Brownells has these...http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/sights/sight-parts/sight-inserts/globe-sight-inserts-prod12372.aspx

Call their Tech dept and see if they know the thickness...
Rich

[Dragoon 45]

Thank you for the info.

[Dragoon 45]

These are the wrong style inserts. They fit the Lyman style sights not the original Sharps/MVA style I have. Thank You for the effort though.

[NSB]

Might be a Parker Hale. Lee Schrader sells them. Check with him.

[montana_charlie]

Might be a Parker Hale. Lee Schrader sells them. Check with him.
Parker Hale inserts are similar to Lyman inserts. Who is Lee Schrader?

[NSB]

Parker Hale inserts are similar to Lyman inserts. Who is Lee Schrader?

Auto correct is who he is. Try Lee Shaver instead.

[Don McDowell]

Check with Buffalo Arms on inserts. Also you can get inserts from MVA and just double them up, or cut all the insides from an insert you're not likely to use and just use the outside for a spacer.

[Dragoon 45]

I have talked to both of them, before I put this question up. Even doubling up on inserts still leaves some slack in the slot cut into the globe, MVA sent me a single insert to see if it fit (good people at MVA). I don't have a feeler guage to tell exactly what width the slot is in this sight, but even with doubled up inserts which are .024" there is still quite alot of slack left. I don't have three inserts to check to see if three would fit snugly. The sight doesn't match anything Kelley, MVA, or other manufacturers make from the pictures I have found. I suspect it is a Parts Unknown sight, but can't tell for sure. I'm going to call MVA again with the dimensions I have and see what they say.


Check with Buffalo Arms on inserts. Also you can get inserts from MVA and just double them up, or cut all the insides from an insert you're not likely to use and just use the outside for a spacer.

[Don McDowell]

Wonder if it might be one of the sights that Jeff's outfitters sells?

[Dragoon 45]

I am not familiar with them. I have always used Lyman 17A style sights before. I have six or seven Lyman type sights on various rifles and plenty of inserts for them, but this is the first one that uses the old Sharps pattern sight inserts.


Wonder if it might be one of the sights that Jeff's outfitters sells?

[Jon K]

Do I understand this correctly...that you want the insert to fit tightly into the slot?
That's not going to happen with that style sight...the spring on the top is supposed to keep the insert snug.
If you want it to be tightly held in the globe...get a Lyman, Shaver, Baldwin, or other which locks the insert in place.
Got pics of the sight? If it's not an MVA, it might be a Taylors.

Jon

[Dragoon 45]

I tried to post some pictures on my original post and for whatever reason it wouldn't let me. The pictures were .jpg and not oversized, so I am not sure why.

As far as I can tell the spring on top does not put any tension of the inserts as the insert will move when you tilt the barrel when the spring is in place. There is not a channel milled into the top of the sight for the spring to fit into as the MVA sights have. Maybe the spring is too weak?

I have never had one of these type front sights before so am not sure just exactly what size the inserts are supposed to be or how they are held in place to prevent them moving when firing the rifle.


Do I understand this correctly...that you want the insert to fit tightly into the slot?
That's not going to happen with that style sight...the spring on the top is supposed to keep the insert snug.
If you want it to be tightly held in the globe...get a Lyman, Shaver, Baldwin, or other which locks the insert in place.
Got pics of the sight? If it's not an MVA, it might be a Taylors.

Jon

[Starvnhuntr]

why not just buy a new front sight?

[Don McDowell]

I am not familiar with them. I have always used Lyman 17A style sights before. I have six or seven Lyman type sights on various rifles and plenty of inserts for them, but this is the first one that uses the old Sharps pattern sight inserts.


http://www.jeffsoutfitters.com/SIT1060_Globe_front_sight_with_Removable_Aperture_ Insert.aspx?panel=3&productid=93&categoryid=66

[Chill Wills]

Both makers of front sights, the Rifleman/Axtell made and the sights made at the old Cody Ballard I have are of the very thick type you are talking about. I do not know who or where the sights portion of the Rifleman tooling went, no contact info but you can contact SPG at the Wyoming Armory for more information on the Cody made sights. I have both here and will post ......or better yet pm-email you a picture of them if you needed it to ID what you have.
-Michael Rix

[texasmac]

Dragoon 45,

To post photos here you have to use (post the photos on) another site like Photobucket (http://photobucket.com), then post the link to the photos here.

Wayne

[fouronesix]

Dragoon,
I'm still not sure of the basic type of insert you are talking about. A pic would solve a lot of confusion. The Axtell/Riflesmith type is similar to the old Winchester type and is held in the globe by a forked retainer, the Lyman type is held by threaded sections of the globe, others by a flat spring on top, etc. I just measured the thickness of an Axtell/Riflesmith insert and it is .042" thick.

[montana_charlie]

If you are certain thet your globe sight takes Sharps-type inserts, then there is something else you need to know ... even if you DO use inserts that are thinner than the slot in the sight.

The Sharps-type inserts are held in position by resting the 'bottoms' of the thickened top ring on the 'shelves' of the slot in the globe. The insert 'bottoms' are held in close contact with the 'shelves' by the flat spring on top of the globe.

When you remove inserts from the 'card' they are originally attached to, there us usually a small 'tit' left on top of the insert.
Many like to file that tit off. But, if you file away too much steel, the spring will not make contact with the top of the insert.

No spring contact allows the insert to 'dance' around within the globe during recoil after a shot. That pretty much guarantees the insert will be in a different location when the next shot is fired. No matter how good you and your load are ... until you buy new inserts your groups will never be smaller than the 'play' in your front sight.
CM

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I had the same problem with inserts I ordered from MVA for an old Stevens single shot .22 that I have. The inserts were so thin the retainer clip would fall off the sight. I would use three or four inserts to keep them in place. To solve the the problem I wrapped black tape around the front sight. I only had one original insert and it was a post which I don't shoot well. I think they make the new inserts out of the same stock they used to use for the old double edged razer blades.

[windwalker]

Recently purchased a Browning Highwall, which has had the front sight replaced. I cannot find any markings on the sight to tell who made it. The front sight uses the MVA style inserts (contour and diameter match), except these inserts are too thin (they mic out at .012), you can actually get two inserts into the slot (an insert .024 will go into the slot). It was mentioned to me that Parts Unknown front sights used a thicker insert than the MVA's, but I can't find anything to confirm that. Additionally I can't find anywhere that has insert cards for the Parts Unknown (or Red River Sights as I am now told they are known) for sale. Anyone have any info on this? I have always used the Lyman 17 style sights before.

Thank You.

Does your front globe sight look like this one in the pic if it does then it is a uberti.
Bernie
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll93/aus08_2008/callout_1885_high_wall_accessoryA_lg.jpg

[Dragoon 45]

No, the spirit level housing is part of the sight base and has two end caps that are screwed on the housing, there is no clip on the sight base. It uses the round inserts with the top half of the circle being at least double the width of the bottom. There is a spring clip on top which does not extend past the edge of the sight hood, attached to the housing by a machine screw, that rotates to insert the sight inserts. There is no channel milled into the top for that spring clip to fit into when it holds the inserts in place, instead there is a dimple on the spring clip that fits into a small hole drilled into the hood.

MVA told me all their sights had the spring clip attached by a rivet (they have never used screws to attach the spring clip) and had a channel milled into the top to prevent the spring clip from moving unless you wanted it to. None of the pictures I have found of any of the Italian made sights fit either. Another shooter told me he thought it was an early Parts Unknown front globe with integral spirit level.

I don't want to buy a new front sight if can find the inserts to fit the one that is already on the rifle, $20-30 insert card is a whole lot better than $130+ for a new front sight.


Does your front globe sight look like this one in the pic if it does then it is a uberti.
Bernie
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll93/aus08_2008/callout_1885_high_wall_accessoryA_lg.jpg

[Dragoon 45]

You hit the nail right on the head. Those inserts dance around just by tipping the barrel. I just could not see this be conducive to accuracy like that.

It would be much cheaper to find the correct sight inserts than replacing the front sight.


If you are certain thet your globe sight takes Sharps-type inserts, then there is something else you need to know ... even if you DO use inserts that are thinner than the slot in the sight.

The Sharps-type inserts are held in position by resting the 'bottoms' of the thickened top ring on the 'shelves' of the slot in the globe. The insert 'bottoms' are held in close contact with the 'shelves' by the flat spring on top of the globe.

When you remove inserts from the 'card' they are originally attached to, there us usually a small 'tit' left on top of the insert.
Many like to file that tit off. But, if you file away too much steel, the spring will not make contact with the top of the insert.

No spring contact allows the insert to 'dance' around within the globe during recoil after a shot. That pretty much guarantees the insert will be in a different location when the next shot is fired. No matter how good you and your load are ... until you buy new inserts your groups will never be smaller than the 'play' in your front sight.
CM

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Windwalker, except for the fact that my Stevens front sight is not adj for windage, the sight you shared looks exactly like it. I see also that the inserts are as thick as the old sight on my Stevens. Are yoy saying that Uberti markets these front sights?

[fouronesix]

Dragoon,
If you think the front may be an old Parts Unknown currently Red River then just call BACO and see if they have one of the inserts to compare to yours. They sell the Red River sights but are "out of stock and backordered" on much of the Red River stuff. Here's a link to the BACO page showing the current Red River globe.
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=163921&MANF=1068

[windwalker]

Windwalker, except for the fact that my Stevens front sight is not adj for windage, the sight you shared looks exactly like it. I see also that the inserts are as thick as the old sight on my Stevens. Are yoy saying that Uberti markets these front sights?

here is there web page the sight is at the bottom of the page.
bernie
http://www.uberti.com/parts-and-accessories/sights.php

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Thanks Windwalker.