A little info on 308

[fishnbob]

My son in law wants to sell his Remington 700 Varmint in 308 and I told him that I would take it off his hands. I originally sighted it in for him and shot a 3/8" group @ 100 yds in a 20 mph crosswind. This thing will shoot! What type powder and bullets do y'all have good luck with? This will be my first 308. Seems like I never needed anything larger than 270 'til now.

[fouronesix]

For Jbullet loads, hard to beat one of the Palma-type match 155 gr bullets and Varget powder.

[Love Life]

175 gr SMK and BLC-2, or Varget, or RL-15, or Benchmark.

My favorite load load is with 175 gr SMK and BLC-2. Shoots sub moa from 100-700 yards. Wind really kicks my but after that.

[chutesnreloads]

Only worked with jacketed in .308 but found my .308 to be easiest of all cartridges to get a good load for.So easy was hard to narrow down but my absolute best loads were with 150 Sierra GK's and Varget and H-4895.

[largom]

I would buy several boxes of the ammo that shot the 3/8 in. group and then start loading to equal that.

Larry

[gandydancer]

I am old school and when you find some thing that works, Stick with it. in my Savage FTR match rifle I use a 168 gr Berger match Boolits with IMR 4064 powder. for a 3/4" group bench rest at 100 yds. The rifle will do much better then that. just not in my hands. and my savage predator shoots almost as good as the F T R with the same load. I like 4064 powder it shoots well in all my rifles. I have a lyman 168 gr DC mold and a NOE 198 3 c mold and I will soon try a cast Boolit in both rifles. GD

PS do you know what old school really means? To dang OLD & STUBBORN to change.

[Lefty SRH]

My Savage .308s have liked 46.0gr 4064 and a 150gr bullet. You have a real shooter there, cherish it!

[375RUGER]

What are you going to use it for?
whatever will shoot those 3/8" groups. Sacrifice 1 shell- pull the bullet, weigh the charge and figure out what the powder is. just remember it may have to be tweaked a little even if it is a canister powder it might be a little bit different.

My best group ever with 308 was with 155 Amax and Varget. Lately I've been thinking about going back and pursuing that load a little more.
H335 shoots in the 3s with that bullet.
I shoot 168 Amax with Varget in that rifle now, they shoot in the 3s.

[200swc]

168 with H4895 or BL-C(2) propelling it. Although, I've never gone beyond 300 - net yet atleast.

[fishnbob]

175 gr SMK and BLC-2, or Varget, or RL-15, or Benchmark.

My favorite load load is with 175 gr SMK and BLC-2. Shoots sub moa from 100-700 yards. Wind really kicks my but after that.

You ever had any problem with BLC-2 being temperature sensitive? I have in the 22-250 class with 55 gr. JPSP's . Sub MOA out to 700 yds is impressive to say the least. Really awesome.

Thanks for your comments guys, as usual some good info! Most of the powders I already have. Somebody had a post on buying bullets in small quantities to try grouping before having to buy them by the 100's. Anybody know where it was?

[PbHurler]

Here's a link;

http://bulletproofsamples.com/

These look like select Barnes, Berger & Noslers; I don't know if Sierras or Hornady are packaged as such yet?

These sample packs are also available through Sinclair International, You'd just need to search for your desired manufacturer & weights.

Hope this helps somewhat

[fishnbob]

Thanks PbHurler, that's exactly what I was looking for. It just dawned on me that I read it in one of my gun mags, maybe Shooting Times did an article on it. I have a bad case of CRS.

Thanks again, Bob

[Mumblypeg]

I have a 700 Police with a 26in. barrel. Either the Sierra 168gr, or the 150 Game King with 45grains of IMR4064. It shoots very,very,very small groups. I would say it's the best shooting rifle that I have.

[Doc Highwall]

What are you going to use this rifle for hunting or target shooting?
Are you looking for a jacketed or cast bullet load?

[Larry Gibson]

What are you going to use this rifle for hunting or target shooting?
Are you looking for a jacketed or cast bullet load?


+1. Lots of options so a little more info could help narrow down the answers to better fit your needs some what.

Larry Gibson

[Love Life]

You ever had any problem with BLC-2 being temperature sensitive? I have in the 22-250 class with 55 gr. JPSP's . Sub MOA out to 700 yds is impressive to say the least. Really awesome.

Thanks for your comments guys, as usual some good info! Most of the powders I already have. Somebody had a post on buying bullets in small quantities to try grouping before having to buy them by the 100's. Anybody know where it was?

I have seen no temperature issues yet. When I first started loading this powder in the 308 it was in the 80's (Temp). Now that it is regularly below freezing in the mornings I have noticed no significant change on target, nor pressure signs or hang fires. We haven't been in the high 90's too much here so I don't know if any pressure issues will develope at that time. I thought BLC-2 was used in our 7.62X51 machine gun ammunition, and it sees extreme temperature swings.

I am going to buy a pound of Alliant Power Pro 2000-MR and see how that does. From what I have read that powder gives a 100 FPS boost compared to Varget, RL-15, and BLC-2. That will be helpful for when I push out to 1,000 yards. The rifle I am currently shooting is a FN SPR A5M. The rifle is exquisitely accurate. The 6-24X50 Tasco has worked well. I will be replacing that in the future though.

Sorry to wander of track. What will be the use of your rifle? Hunting or target? That will make difference in your bullet choices, but from my experience coyotes and deer have never admonished me for killing them with a SMK.

[fishnbob]

What are you going to use this rifle for hunting or target shooting?
Are you looking for a jacketed or cast bullet load?

[QUOTE=Larry Gibson;1948297]+1. Lots of options so a little more info could help narrow down the answers to better fit your needs some what.

Sorry 'bout that fellas. I would start out with target shooting just to see how tight it would shoot, then progress to hunting loads and then try to develop cast boolits on paper to find accuracy in a cast load. If I am confident in what I am shooting in the way of ammo, most likely I'll use it to hunt with unless I see some problem with the taking of a game animal humanely.
Thanks for your help, Bob.

[Love Life]

Can't go wrong with a box of FGMM just to see how tight it will group. How far can you shoot (range length)? If you can put up targets at 100, 300, and 400 to work up ladders that will get you exactly where you want to be using significantly less bullets and powder than the usual loading 5 for each progressive charge weight.

Zero on the 100 yard target
Shoot your 1st ladder on the 300 yard target loading up the powder weight spectrum in .3 to .5 gr increments. Use a bench and a rest. What you are looking for is little groups or "nodes" within the load spectrum with the least amount of verticle dispersion.
For the 400 yard ladder you will be testing loads from within the "nodes" of the 300 yard ladder test, but with finer powder increments (.1-.3 gr).

At the end of all of this you might have fired 25-30 rounds and will have learned tons of information about your rifle, loads, and what works best. From there you can adjust C.O.A.L., bullet tension, neck turn, primer tests, turn in circles 3 times while patting your head and rubbing your belly at the same time, etc.

The 308 is just plain fun, and from what I have seen, your rifle model will usually hang pretty close with our 15 lb montsrocities out to most respectable ranges.

[Larry Gibson]

[QUOTE=Larry Gibson;1948297]+1. Lots of options so a little more info could help narrow down the answers to better fit your needs some what.

Sorry 'bout that fellas. I would start out with target shooting just to see how tight it would shoot, then progress to hunting loads and then try to develop cast boolits on paper to find accuracy in a cast load. If I am confident in what I am shooting in the way of ammo, most likely I'll use it to hunt with unless I see some problem with the taking of a game animal humanely.
Thanks for your help, Bob.

I use WW Palma cases or LC Match for my match load. Of course all cases are "match prepped" in the usual manner. I used to shoot a lot of the Sierra 168 MKs but have switched entirely to the 175 MK for use in my match/target .308Ws. I load them over 45 gr Varget in the WW cases and over 44.5 gr in the LC cases. Accuracy from my M70 Target is .3-.7 moa for 10 shots to 300 yards and they hold the X ring (1 moa) at 1000 yards if I can. At 2700 fps (26" barrel) they hold sonic to 1400 yards.

For longer range hunting I use the Hornady 165 SPBT in WW cases over 44 gr IMR4895. It runs 2670 fps out of the 24" barrel of my hunting .308W and 2650 fps out of my 22" suppressed .308W. That load should sub moa all day long out of both and has all the lethality to use on game to my own max range for such that is needed.

For cast look at the 311466, the LBT 150 SP or the RCBS 168 SIL. For powder I'd look at 4895, RL19, or AA4350.

Larry Gibson

[Doc Highwall]

I agree with Larry. I would also ask how good is your shooting? If you do not have a lot of target shooting experience regular hunting bullets today are as good as target/match bullets of 10-15 years ago.

Using a hunting bullet close to the target bullet weight, say 175gr MatchKings vs. 180 Gamekings can save you some money and you will have a hunting load with a hunting bullet made for expansion.

[fishnbob]

Thanks for the info, y'all are the Wikipedia of the gun world. I have garnered enough to start on. The journey from there is all the fun. My home range is limited to 100 yds and the club range is 300 yds. As soon as deer season is over, we have a low ground pasture that is 1000 yds at least.

Bob

[W.R.Buchanan]

BOB: my standard load for my RGS77 Scout rifle is 45 gr of IMR 4895 with 147gr recycled M80 Ball bullets. @2600fps.

My best group so far was 7/8" but that was with only a 5x scope. I just obtained a 3-9x Leupold and expect the group size to decrease somewhat due to being able to hold closer on the target.

The main thing about the .308 is that it is pretty easy to get good results with a wide variety of components. So you shouldn't have any big difficulties finding a good combination.

I use NOE 311299 for my cast boolit loads with 21gr of 5744. Going to try 19 gr of 2400 soon.

One day I am going to buy a box of Sierra Palmas just to see if they shoot better than my 7/8 MOA cheepy bullets do. There is room for improvement, but not a whole lot.

At $110 per 1000 the recycled bullets are hard to beat and especially if you plan on shooting alot of them.

Great cartridge to work with.

Randy

[shotstring]

I fell in love with the 308 sometime in the mid 80's. Large assortment of guns available, most not very expensive, barrels last forever, ammunition readily found and cheap, wide assortment of bullets available to reload, manageable recoil to shoot lots and very accurate. What's not to like.

I have two remington 700s, bought both used and both shoot under 3/4 inch at 100 yards with nothing more than a trigger adjustment using factory ammunition. Reloading shrinks that group noticeably. The joy of accurate rifle shooting does not have to be expensive, and largely due to the popularity and availability of the 308 cartridge.

[Love Life]

I have to piggy back on what everybody else is saying. The 308 is very easy to load for. Even during load development the 308 shoots very well. For that cartridge I do load development at either 300 or 400 yards because 90% of the time at 100 yards the difference between groups from different powder charges is not very large.

You are going to enjoy this one very much. If you can get a ballistic table for your bullet weight/speed that would be great. Once you start dialing in adjustments instead of using holdover you will never want to do anything else.

[Four Fingers of Death]

For Jbullet loads, hard to beat one of the Palma-type match 155 gr bullets and Varget powder.

Thats what I was going to recommend, it is labelled AR2208 here, but re-labelled as Varget for sale in America. Recommended loads are on their site.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Speaking of reloading the 308, a friend who is a gunsmith and a competitive long range F Class shooter was up at the range recently, working up loads. He bought his target back and it had five groups on it, one on each of the orange squares we have on our 100 yard targets.

There wasn't much between them and I pointed at one I thought was the smallest and said ' I suppose you will be using that one?' He replied, no, that one there is not much bigger and is a nice round shape. I will now try varying seating depths with that load, I find the round groups are always the best in the long run.'

Interesting, but I have not had a chance to try that theory out yet.

[rpervin]

I shoot a rifle I built from an old Turk Mauser action hitched to a two groove Springfield barrel, cut off to 20 inches and re-chambered in .308. I found that it likes a load that emulates the old 30-06 rounds from pre-WWII. 180 grain Sierra Gamekings on top of 42.5 grains of 4895. My chrono is on the blink, but I think it shoots about 2600 fps. It is a sweet load and shoots tight groups, even though I use a Williams peep and 57 year old eyes. It is funny how a little bit of extra powder will open up the groups from this rifle, the same as a little less powder. That old barrel likes and a heavy slug running pretty fast!

[Larry Gibson]

Four Fingers

Your friends comment; "I find the round groups are always the best in the long run." is correct. With groups of sufficient rounds or multiple groups a well rounded group (equal dispersion) is almost always better in the long run, especially at longer range, than a smaller group showing stringing. You'll score higher most often with the group staying well centered over the bull than with a group that is smaller but has probable flyers as indicated by the stringing. We're not talking much difference between group sizes here and the "round" groups should be holding 10 ring at least if not X ring anyway.

Larry Gibson

[Four Fingers of Death]

Four Fingers

Your friends comment; "I find the round groups are always the best in the long run." is correct. With groups of sufficient rounds or multiple groups a well rounded group (equal dispersion) is almost always better in the long run, especially at longer range, than a smaller group showing stringing. You'll score higher most often with the group staying well centered over the bull than with a group that is smaller but has probable flyers as indicated by the stringing. We're not talking much difference between group sizes here and the "round" groups should be holding 10 ring at least if not X ring anyway.

Larry Gibson

Long range is what he shoots. He comes to our range to work out loads, get standard deviations, etc shooting off the bench. His rifles look like big ray guns, lol, not to my taste, but he shoots from 300-1200 yards at his own club and around the State.

[Griz44mag]

For my 26" Rem 700 VSF varmint rifle,
Hunting: 165gr Hornady SP, 45.6 Varget, CCI primers.
Target: 168gr Hornady match grade hollow point (#3050), 46.0gr Varget, CCI primers.
Either load will hold <.7MOA at 200 yards with nothing but a front sand bag, better with a proper rest setup.

[fishnbob]

Well, I finally got it home and after zeroing it in with a Vortex 4-12x40mm scope, using Remington 150 gr Core-Lokt bullets, I squeezed off a 3 shot group as dark was closing in. It measures 3/8" center to center. My 700 Varmintmaster in 22-250 might not top this. I did readjust the trigger from 5+ lbs down to 2 3/4 lbs. As soon as I figure out how to, I'll post some pictures of my targets. BTW, anybody know anything about a Vortex scope? One last observation, if I had my eyesight of my 30's, I might be able to stack 'em in the same hole. I could do it years ago, even with my old 700 in 270 deer rifle. Gettin' old is rough!

[fishnbob]

For my 26" Rem 700 VSF varmint rifle,
Hunting: 165gr Hornady SP, 45.6 Varget, CCI primers.
Target: 168gr Hornady match grade hollow point (#3050), 46.0gr Varget, CCI primers.
Either load will hold <.7MOA at 200 yards with nothing but a front sand bag, better with a proper rest setup.
Holy cow Griz, that is some kinda shooting! If I had a target like that I would cut it down to a 3"x5", overlay it and carry it around with pictures of my grandchildren in my wallet.

[Love Life]

Here is a target for you...

That is the best group I have ever shot that far, and that target now resides on my wall of fame.

Only a front rest was used. My front rest consists of a sandbag on top of my day pack. That is what I use when I am long range hunting song dogs.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Fineeeeeee shooting!

[nhrifle]

Good info and some excellent shooters here. I shamefully have to number myself among those who have never loaded .308 for cast boolits, but I have shot it quite a bit. I used an M1A in Highpower competition awhile back and currently have a Savage 10FP police model with a heavy contour 20" barrel. The best thing I have learned about the .308 is that it likes to be driven at just under the pressure limit. When trying new load combinations, I start a couple grains under max and go up 1/4 grain until I notice the bolt start to get hard to operate and then back off until I find the most accurate/consistent loading. Others may have different advice but this is what works for me in my rifle. The best load I found for the M1A was an LC match case trimmed, chamferred, primer pocket and flash hole prepared. I loaded a 168 gr. Hornady AMAX over 45.5 gr Varget and a Winchester LR primer. No crimp. On the 200 yard firing line, I could just about stack the hits one on top of the other. My Savage likes this load as well, but I think the chamber is a bit tighter than in the Springfield, as the bolt handle is a bit sticky, especially in warmer weather.

[Love Life]

To answer your question on the Vortex scopes. They are popping up quite a bit where I am and they seem to be a bunch of scope for the money. The viper PST front focals are very good scopes for the money from our experience. Another scope line to check out would be sightron. Great class and outstanding tracking.

[Griz44mag]

Love Life, that's some fine shooting.
I just thought I had some fine groups, now I feel soooooooooo crude.

[Love Life]

Luck. All luck on that one. The planets aligned and one of those rare moments in the history of Nevada the wind wasn't blowing.

I was glad some of my buddies were there to witness it. Of course one of them kept taunting me from the spotting scope. "Don't drop one!"

BLC-2 has become my go to for the 308 in that rifle. The side benefit to that is that I have found an accurate load for all my rifles and calibers using BLC-2. A side benefit to the side benefit is it flows like water from the measure so I an load very fine ammo on the Dillon.

My experience falls in line with NHrifle's concerning loading for the 308. I get better accuracy a little under the max load using several powders. Except for IMR4895. I got my best accuracy with that powder right when I started to get cratered primers.

Of course I had a leg up on reloading for the 308. I read all I could and was able to set my self up for success from the start. That is the great thing about this and other forums. You can get knowledge and advice from the experts in the fields of shooting. Farthest I have pushed out is 900 yards.

Back on track to the OP. Enjoy that bad boy!!

[fishnbob]

To answer your question on the Vortex scopes. They are popping up quite a bit where I am and they seem to be a bunch of scope for the money. The viper PST front focals are very good scopes for the money from our experience. Another scope line to check out would be sightron. Great class and outstanding tracking.

Thanks Love Life, and that is some fine shooting. I have floaters in my right eye and they pretty much control my accuracy, frustrating to say the least. I keep on trying.

[ebner glocken]

The load I pretty much settled on was 43.5 varget seated @ 2.800" with sierra 168 MKs. Shoots well out of my M1A and various bolt actions. When I went up or down groups started opening up. Later I tried the same thing with the hornady A-max, shot as well and now I just buy whatever is cheaper at the time. Also good results with 4064 and H4895.

Ebner

[Four Fingers of Death]

Varget/AR2208 and 308, a match made in heaven!

[357shooter]

I'm just getting my feet wet with casting and handloading for rifle, with a 308. I've been casting and handloading for pistol for some time. This thread is really helpful and full of great info. There seem to be a few powders alway mentioned when shooting cast, 4895 being one of the most often mentioned. Varget seems to be favorite with jacketed bullets, does it work well with cast too.? I have three moulds to work with:

311-155-FN - working with 2400 and will shortly look for a slower and higher velocity powder
308-165-SIL - have cast a batch and will try the 2400
308-200-SIL - after working through the others I'll get to this one

I'm shooint a BLR (Browning Lever Rifle) with a 20 inch barrel and 12 inch twist, FYI. I primarily target shoot for fun, but strive for accuracy. I'll be shooting to 100 and 200 yards often, going to 300 at times.

I figure to work through the 2400, then work with 4895, or maybe Varget or 3031. Depending on the advice here. Last question, is the powder on the shelves at the gun store H4895 or IMR4895 these days?

Thanks guys

[joesig]

As has been said before, the 308 is easy to load for.

I was pleasantly surprised how easy it was to work up a load with TAC and Sierra 155s. Previously I had used H380 and Nosler 150 BTs. They were good for a ragged hole from my deer fun. For plinking, 4759 and some Speer 110 HPs.

You will be well suited with the 4895 too, it just doesn't measure as easily as a ball powder. That and RCBS 180s are used in my gas gun.

[Love Life]

I've been looking at giving Varget a try once I run out of BLC-2 in the year of 2025!! I got good accuracy from Benchmark, but not the velocity I needed for 1,000 yards. I also need to try the Alliant MR-2000. From what I have read it seems to be the bee's knees for 170 gr and up bullets in the 308, and it is a ball powder.

Unfortunately I have to shoot through all my benchmark and BLC-2 before I try anything new. They just work, and work well. Plus both powders work well for all the rifle calibers I shoot.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I got good accuracy from Benchmark, but not the velocity I needed for 1,000 yards. I also need to try the Alliant MR-2000.

Perhaps you should try just a tin (or plastic bottle nowadays! :) ) for your 1000 yard loads. If any of the long range shooters go to the range this afternoon, I will see what they use. In one of the classes they are restricted to 223 and 308 and the powders they can use are restricted to AR2206H and AR2208, which is Varget. I am curious about the long range stuff and used to shoot it a lot years ago when we were restricted to Aussie F4 military ammo, but I spend three days a week at the range now, another day might crowd the schedule somewhat.

[o6Patient]

(Hunting?)I've loaded 165 sierra game king boat tails in my Son's .308 700 with fine accuracy an it's a competent hunting bullet.