LUBE COOKIES (but no milk)

[dagger dog]

Shooting my new Buffalo Classic 45-70 with 60 volumetric grains FFg, Lee nose pour 405 gr RNHB SOWW, a modified Emmerts pan lube which has a little more Crisco to make it sticker, no card or wad, bullets sized to .457" Lee push through, the cases partial sized then expanded to .457" and the boolits slipped into the case to the crimp groove, then slightly taper crimped not enough to deform the boolit.

This is my 1st try at BPCR shooting, and with all the help from this forum I have managed this:

Got to the range shooting 5 strings of 5 shots, off sticks and dry patched between the 5 shot strings, was paying close attention to how much pressure it takes to push the patched rod out the muzzle, you could feel the greasy feeling of soft fouling as you pushed the rod through the bore, not much effort UNTIL the last 2-3 inches, then the effort increased and you could feel the dragging which I figure is dry fouling. The patches came out greasy looking but still I had that excessive pressure just the last couple inches of barrel.

While I was trying to aquire my sight picture, with sun glare,target occlusion with my new bargain basement Creedmore style sights and recent cataract surgery I did manage a quarter coin size group but at short range, so it think that load shows promise.

So here are the questions; will a lube cookie help with the lack of lube the last 3 inches, do I need another style boolit,what would a card or wad do,is my loadng practice sound.

All help appreciated !

[Southern Son]

I have used a cookie in my loads pretty much from the start. About .125 thick, I cut the cookie from a ribbon using a modified .44mag shell, that way the cookie slips into the case and falls down to sit on top of a sheet of beexwax I put on top of the powder. I then put a LDPE wad on top of the cookie. When I seat the boolit on top of the LDPE wad, it squashes the cookie just enough to fill in the gap that was left around the cookie. To stop the cookie contaminating the powder, I used Matthews idea and I cut a piece of bees was sheet with the loaded 45/70 case (with the powder already compressed) and I push the bees wax down on top of the powder so that it forms a barrier between the powder and the cookie. The cookie sits on top of the bees wax sheet. The theory is that the bees wax will protect the powder from the cookie, until the burning powder burns it.

[nwellons]

I load for about 5 or 6 BP cartridges. The boolit in most of them has adequate lube as is but my .42 Berdan does not. I use cookies with it and all is well.

['74 sharps]

The cookie, located behind the bullet, is for the next shot. Wet wiping between shots would negate any improvement from a cookie; however, whatever your technique, consistency of the technique is the key to attaining small groups. I don't know how dry wiping would leave the bore between shots, as I only wet wipe.

[oldracer]

I read the original post several times and did not see any mention of using a "blow tube" between shots? When I started, Doug Knoell strongly suggested to me to either buy or make (which I did) a blow tube and make sure it has some clear tube. The clear tube is so you can see if there is any moisture going into the barrel. I take a drink every 10 shots or so and usually blow 5 or even 6 breaths although less might be okay if there is plenty of humidity where you live? I also wipe every 5 shots with a couple of wet, Ballistol patches and then a dry one double sided.

Last thing is to look at the end of the muzzle as Doug told me to do, if there is a "lube pattern" spread evenly then the lube is sufficient, otherwise you'll need more, probably a lube cookie between the bullet and a card wad. I shoot 500gn bullets and they have 4 grooves so I always get the nice pattern.

['74 sharps]

I read the original post several times and did not see any mention of using a "blow tube" between shots? When I started, Doug Knoell strongly suggested to me to either buy or make (which I did) a blow tube and make sure it has some clear tube. The clear tube is so you can see if there is any moisture going into the barrel. I take a drink every 10 shots or so and usually blow 5 or even 6 breaths although less might be okay if there is plenty of humidity where you live? I also wipe every 5 shots with a couple of wet, Ballistol patches and then a dry one double sided.

Last thing is to look at the end of the muzzle as Doug told me to do, if there is a "lube pattern" spread evenly then the lube is sufficient, otherwise you'll need more, probably a lube cookie between the bullet and a card wad. I shoot 500gn bullets and they have 4 grooves so I always get the nice pattern.

I made my own blow tubes, and never had any luck getting consistent results. All fell into place when I started wiping between shots with a damp patch. I use Ballistol and water for the moisture on the patch. Mine are damp, not dripping wet. On looking down the barrel after wiping between shots, it looks the same every time; however, some folks like the tube. Just never worked for me.

[oldracer]

I made my tube from a case and added a short extension piece that fit into the land area. I read in a couple of issues of Black Powder Cartridge Magazine that the air/moisture had to go past the chamber or it would not be as effective? I wipe my muzzle loaders between each shot and some never do during a match???? Depends on what works and that is why it took me 6 months to get my first loads worked out for my Rolling Block!

[John Boy]

DD, a couple of suggestions:
* Grease cookies are a pain to make and put in the reloads. Lube up some dry felt wads and use them instead of the GC. The felt will act as protection to the bullet base and a scrapper in the bore in addition to providing lube from the chamber to the muzzle

* Increase your powder charge to 68 or 70 grs of powder - this will put the 405gr bullet in the sonic range of about 1250 fps and provide better groups

[tbierley]

What I do on Lee 405gnHB loads is use a cork wad that is .030 cut out with a 45ACP case. The charge is 70grs of RS.I also put a little lube in the hollow base of the bullit. An on my Lee 500gr that has 3 lube groove type I use just a cork wad an 70grns of RS.

['74 sharps]

What I do on Lee 405gnHB loads is use a cork wad that is .030 cut out with a 45ACP case. The charge is 70grs of RS.I also put a little lube in the hollow base of the bullit. An on my Lee 500gr that has 3 lube groove type I use just a cork wad an 70grns of RS.

RS is a black powder substitute. The expectation that it will perform like black powder may be an incorrect assumption.

[dagger dog]

A blow tube is in the works, and we do have plenty of humidity.

Haven't checked the muzzle for a lube pattern, gotta do that.

I do have some felt gasket material, and also some 0.030" card.

Never thought about filling the HB cavity.

Some more questions:
I have a drop tube and a way to compress the powder in the case, how do I measure the amount of compression, do I compess and then add the card or compress with the card in place ?
I realize each rifle is going to be different on how much compression.

Should I seat the boolit into the lands and adjust COL accordingly, to get room for more powder ?

You guys are great, it like having your personal shooting and loading coach!

[bigted]

just my load column and system...

i first use scrubbed and clean/dry winchester cases

then i flair the mouth so my boolits...either greesers or patched...dont scrape anything off the sides of the boolit

boolits both types are .459/.460 inch so they are snug in my unsized cases

i prime the cases with cci 200 large rifle primers using an old pope style prime/de-prime tool...[i love this tool both in use and style]

i then drop tube thru a 24 inch tube 68 grains of GOEX cartridge powder

then i install a thin....002 inch...wax paper overpowder seperator followed by the compression with my press... .300 inch.

after the compression i check to see if the wax paper is still there...then i install my .250 inch cookie punched out with a 444 marlin case from a glass pie plate which i have the cookie depth poured and solidified...follow this with a .060 inch walters vegi wad and push it down on the lube cookie by hand to ensure no air pocket is left.

then i thumb push my boolit into the case and ensure that again there is no air pocket holding the boolit up from the wad.

i then put my size die ...sans the primer stem... in the press about three threads and begin to take the flair outta the case neck...adjusting it [the die] down a thread at a time to find the sweet spot that takes the flair out but does not crunch the boolit.

after this step has been done to all cases i then adjust the die down in the same manner to "sqeeze" the boolit so it is a bit harder to turn in the case...this allows the cartridge to be held upside down without the boolit falling out.

before i found the "spot" for the boolit i intend on using i use a dummy case that is deprimed to find the seating depth that holds the boolit out to just barely kiss the rifling without having to "cam it into the chamber...followed with my ussual operation of then discovering how much powder will droptube into the case to allow my .300 inch compression and my load column to allow for everything to seat in place so that the end product is the said product. this is just my operation and i use it for everything i load including the 38-55,,,45-70's,,,45-120. just change the amounts and compression to find the sweet spot for your rifle.

good luck!

[oldracer]

To find the amount of powder compression, I was taught to do it this way: Fill a fire formed case with florist foam and then insert a bullet you plan to shoot. Insert the case/bullet and fully seat it. Eject the case and the bullet will probably stay in the lands? Pop the bullet out carefully. Put the bullet back in and mic the overall length of both together. Take off about .003 or so and use that as a start point. Make sure to get all the foam out! Next use a primed case and fill with your powder charge and put a fiber or other stiff wad on the powder. Use the compression die and slowly turn it in so as to get the correct overall length as measured earlier. Lock the die down. This will be compression for any powder load and adjust it up or down to move the bullet closer or further from the lands, which ever gives the best accuracy. In my case it is .002 off the lands and some have touching, some .003, etc. I'd say load 20 rounds of each and test to see what you get.

[dagger dog]

Update, built a drop tube 30", was good for an extra 5 grs went with a 0.015" card and filled the hollow cavity with lube,made sure to clean the base so the card doesn't stick, with the powder compressed 1/10" the top of the 1st lube groove was just barely visable, the bullet is resting on the lands.

Going to drag out the Chrony, any tips on distance and height of the skyscreens with BP ?