Another New gun for me!

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK guys, I finally got my Kel-Tec Sub 2000 coming in. It took a while to find a good source and actually get the thing in stock.

This is a very popular gun! and they are not easy to find. You will very seldom if ever see one on a dealers rack. They sell instantly.

This gun is a Semi Auto blow back carbine which folds in half to become 17" long. It is made in 9mm and .40 S&W (I got the .40) and in my case uses Glock magazines. It is also available in several other magazine configurations but the Glock ones are the most produced. KT is shipping 300 of these guns a week and they are gone instantly.

This gun is similar in nature to the Hi-point carbine except it folds in half. It is made largely of glass filled polymer and weighs about 4 lbs loaded.

You ask what it is good for? Well as a bug out gun it would be one of the best choices you could make, as it will share mags with your Glock Pistol. It is light and will easily fit into a small 3 day back pack. The .40 S&W round is leathal to 150 yds, and at urban fighting distances it is so handy that it would be more useful than a full sized AR or other battle rifle. Plus a wife or child could be trained to use it in minutes. It is a very simple gun.

This will be one of the last guns I buy for a while and I plan on using it in local 3 gun matches and keeping it in my car. I can't wait to do a Front Sight Rifle Class with it.

I'm pretty impressed with these guns and hopefully others here will see uses for it as well.

Here's a picture of a stock gun. I will be making a series of mods to it including a Magpul Foreend, a Red Dot Sight, and small flashlite, and a single/two point Sling.

If you go here http://www.thektog.org/forum/f85/sub-porn-pictures-pictures-only-no-discussion-231168/ you can see that these guns are very popular and highly accessorized.

I'll keep you posted.

Randy

[Jailer]

That's another one that I'd like to add to my collection. I just wish they would make one in 45 ACP.

I did email them and they said they have no plans to make one in 45 ACP. Too bad, they would never be able to make enough if they did. The lack of viable options in a 45 ACP carbine is rather disappointing.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Jailer: I want a .45 also. The added benefit of them making a that gun would be that they could also make it in 10MM. IE G20 and 21 mags.

I am going tobe lobbying the product guys from Kel-Tec at the SHOT Show pretty hard to produce this gun. The only nw parts they have to make are the Basic Frame on the gun, a barrel, and a slightly different bolt face for the .45 ACP cartridge. The 10 mm version would use the same bolt and barrel as the .40S&W with a longer chamber and a stronger recoil spring. The rest of the gun is typical to what they are making right now.

Seems like a no brainer except for the point that they are selling as many of the current models as they can make.

I had to hunt alot to finally get one of these guns and not pay rediculous prices for it. Average price on Gunbroker is $550. I paid $329 shipped.

Randy

[Jailer]

That's a great price. I haven't seen one go for less than $450.

[W.R.Buchanan]

They do tend to get inflated at Gunbroker. $550-600 is not unusual at all, in fact some sap paid $775 for one last week. The must have it thing got to him for sure. (no patience)

If you are interested, I got mine from B&H Gunrack in Florida. They are Kel-Tec's main distributor and they are 8 miles from the factory. They have stock on .40 Glock models right now but they won't last very long. If you want one you can call them and send a $50 deposit, as soon as they have one for you they call back. Mine took 2 weeks. 321-452-1105 Talk to John.

Mine is on it's way here. I have a 10 day waiting period before I can pick it up, but should be shooting it before Christmas.

When I get all my little mods done to it , it will be quite the little bug out gun. Or "Can Gun" if necessary.

Randy

[TheGrimReaper]

I've got one the Glock 17 model. Great gun a Hoot to shoot!!!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Well mine finally showed up at my FFL's place Friday nite at 7:45PM. Took 8 days to come from FL to CA.

I still haven't got to see it. Maybe tomorrow.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Well I got to see it, and hold it, and everything.

I could not believe how small these guns are. It is 16x7 folded and 30" open. weighs 4lbs. You don't realize how small they are until you actually handle one, and let me tell you they feel real nice in your hands.

I get to pick it up the day after Christmas, and will go shooting immediately.

I will keep all informed. This gun will go to Front Sight in the spring, and by then I should have put hundreds of rounds thru it.

can't wait!

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Well I finally got to pick it up today. And yes, it is that cool.

I am going thru the modification phase and looking at ways to install a red dot on the gun as well as a better front sight and a sling. That's all this gun will get as I want it to remain light. Right now the gun weighs 4lb 6oz. with an empty mag in the grip.

Today I installed the Tacticool buffer tube cover and bolt handle cover. They added a few oz to the point we are now.

Here's some pics.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

There is a good picture of an OD Green model Sub 2000 in this months American Rifleman.

Everyone probably has already seen it but didn't pay attention because they have never seen or heard about the gun. I only became aware 3 months ago and now I have one and I have to tell you, it is just that cool!

randy

[Jailer]

If only they made one in 45 ACP that took Glock mags.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Jailer: in my quest to obtain this gun I developed relationships with a couple of the factory guys. I will be seeing them at the SHOT Show in a few weeks and will be lobbying them pretty hard for a .45 version.

This would also open up a 10MM version as the Glock 20 & 21 have the same size mags. They already know they need to build it.

After the first I probably wouldn't be able to get one shipped to CA anyway as the libs are going nuts here right now and they will probably try to pass more GC laws here.

I have to tell you, the gun is way cool. I haven't got to shoot it yet as I only got it a few days ago and it has been raining most of the time out here.

I have done a few things to it so far which were very minor. I installed a tacticool buffer tube cover and bolt handle cover, and I completely deburred the plastic on the gun.

I am going to replace the front sight with something made of metal, and I am looking at ways to mount a red dot sight and still be able to fold the gun. And then it needs a sling too.

Other than those few things the gun is good to go.

We have our first 3 gun match at the Santa Barbara gun club in two weeks, and I will either be using this one or the SU16. leaning towrads the S2K.

Randy

[MGySgt]

Randy,

For a sling I would look at the single point hookup like the AR's use - looks like you could pull the stock tube off and put one there.

Just a thought.

Drew

[snowwolfe]

Interesting weapon:)
How do they shoot? Any issues with feeding or extraction? Accuracy?
Thanks

[Artful]

Seem reliable and to be pretty accurate - I have several friends with them

Randy, look at Red Lion forend that rotates in 90 degree increments.
http://www.redlionprecision.com/
http://members.quixnet.net/mcress/Keltec/sub2000-1.jpg
http://members.quixnet.net/mcress/Keltec/sub2000-2.jpg
http://members.quixnet.net/mcress/Keltec/sub2000-4.jpg
http://members.quixnet.net/mcress/Keltec/sub2000-3.jpg
http://members.quixnet.net/mcress/Keltec/sub2000-5.jpg
here's a nice video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ87nsuyNpY

[W.R.Buchanan]

Art: is that gun your's? nice pics! I wish I could have a suppressor.

I know about the Red Lion Fore end, and their frontsight is the best out there by far, But both are kind of pricey, well made and certainly worth the $ if you don't own a machine shop and can make something for yourself. which for me is part of the fun.

That gun with the Forend and Aimpoint is worth 2-3 times what I've got in this one.

I'm thinking more along the lines of a new smaller foreend made of Phenolic with a angled rail mounted on the side with a Bushnell TRS25, and a small section of rail on the underside to mount a StreamLight TLR 3 . I want to be able to fold the gun without having to reposition anything. Just snap and fold or unfold and snap.

For a sling I like the Magpul MS3 style that can work as a single point or a two point attachment.

Gunny: I thought that too, however that nut is actually a collet closer and is screwed onto the back of the receiver to clamp the buffertube in place. I will have to make a split clamp that clamps onto that nut to mount the sling, and then some kind of loop on the foreend for the other attachment point.

Snowwolf: All I have heard indicates excellent relibility. There is really nothing to the gun. It is similar to WW2 Sten Gun in that it is a blowback operated pistol caliber carbine with a barrel, a bolt in a steel tube, a trigger/hammer, and a magazine. All of the critical parts are made from steel, the plastic (actually glass filled polymers) holds the whole mess together, and it costs a lot less to make than a gun machined form metal. This gun "Retailed" for $300. The predecessor of this gun, the Kel-Tec Sub 9, was made from metal and cost $800. This gun replaced it and is selling like gangbusters.

Mine is in .40S&W and gives me easy and accurate 100 yard capibility, and goes with my G35 which I would be wearing.

Lots of fun to be had with this gun, hoping to see others jumping on this bandwagon. This gun will excel for 3 gun shoots. Probably be outlawed in CA in a few weeks, but mine is grandfathered in. :mrgreen:

Randy

[Artful]

Not my gun, not my pic's - but I was hoping it would help ya.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yes Art: after spending an hour looking at all the pics on KTOG.com I saw the same gun. All of the ideas help to decide what it is that you want to end up with. Part of the fun is figuring out what to do, then another part is doing it, then another part is using it when done.

I'm on my way to the shop this morning to start work on my phenolic front handguard. This will allow me to mount a Red Dot on an offset mount, and a light under the front of the forend.

I had originally planned on mounting a Magpul MOE carbine length handguard but after getting the handguard and the gun together it was just going to be a big problem that didn't accomplish what I wanted. It is actually easier to make one from scratch.

Lots to do here to get this gun where I want it. Follow along, it will be cool in the end.

Hell,, it's already cool dead stock! This is the handiest gun I have ever held in my hands.

Randy

[Artful]

FYI, one of the people I know that has one just uses one of the quick detach one lever mounts and when he wants to fold it just takes the sight off.
AZbang says it holds zero pretty well - at least enough that he can't tell any difference.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I spent an hour or so yesterday designing the hand guard. I've got the preliminary part of the design worked out. As I progress thru the build of the part the design will evolve past what I've got on paper now to a final product. This one will take some time, as the basic part will be 2x2" when clamped onto the gun. This will be parred down after the scope mount is established and become more of a trapezoid like the stock handguard. The first part of the build will all be done on the milling machine, but all of the cosmetic work will probably end up being free hand on the knife grinder.

I found a virgin 2'x2' piece of 1" think phenolic in my shop that has been aging for 20+ years. It was still wrapped in it shipping box! I have to saw off a 2" wide strip on it today to start making the two sides of the handguard.

My current intention is to mount the Red Dot offset ala Win 94 or M1D Garand. When you shoulder the gun you have to reposition your head, both down and to the right, to be in line with the sights, so this might be the right place to have the optic.

However it is also possible to mount the optic on the right side of the gun and cant the gun into your cheek. Since I have to try both ways, both sides of the handguard will be setup to mount a piece of Picatinny rail.

The stock sights (for now) will also be usable.

I plan on using an angled adapter to interface between the rail and the optic. I have two right now, one is 45* and the other is 90* one or the other will work.

The idea is that the optic will stay put when the barrel folds, and it will lay right next to the receiver of the gun when the barrel is locked in the folded position.

That's my current story, subject to change as necessary.

I'll post pics of this project as it progresses, as it might be of interest to others.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Got a 2" strip ripped off my 2'x2' piece of Phenolic and now have a piece of material to start with.

I drew up this to work off and it will get me to the freehand portion of the build.

Randy

[Artful]

Randy, I'm not clear on your drawing where the rail is going to be, can you help me out?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Art: What you are seeing in the drawing is the inside of the right side of the handguard. The left side will obviously be a mirror image.

On the outside, the left and right sides will be tapered in bottom to top and the rail sections will be attached with screws to the flat sides of the foreend. They can be removed and the holes plugged with buttonhead screws. There will be a provision on both sides to mount another short 3-4" section which will have the angle mount attached to it.

The intention is to mount the Red Dot on the side, most likely the left side, of the handguard. This will facilitate sighting similar to how an M1D or Win 94 scope mounting worked. IE offset to the left.

These guns don't shoulder that well. It is hard to get a natural cheek weld and get your eye lined up with the sights. Surprisingly the offset mount will make this much easier.

The other option is to mount the sight on the right side which would require me to cant the gun into my cheek like they do with the 3 gun rifles that have a scope and red dot sight mounted. You've seen this many times.

Either way the sight will be far enough from the centerline of the gun so that it will fold without moving the sight. It will also make it so I can have the sight nearly all the way to the back of the forend.

There will be a small section of rail (2-3") for the flashlite to mount under the front end, probably only attached to the left side, as the centerline is not available for hole drilling due to the splitline.

It will become more obvious as the thing takes shape, but this is the basic result I am trying to pulloff.

Randy

[o6Patient]

That's another one that I'd like to add to my collection. I just wish they would make one in 45 ACP.

I did email them and they said they have no plans to make one in 45 ACP. Too bad, they would never be able to make enough if they did. The lack of viable options in a 45 ACP carbine is rather disappointing.

+1 me want one too - that would be the balls.