Beyond 5.56 AR's

[x101airborne]

Hey all. I just got my 5 ar recievers paid for and am looking at calibers.
I use mine for hog hunting and have retired the 556 cartrige for serious hog work.
What all cartriges do yall use or are interested in? I LOVE my 7.62x39 and wouldn't change it for anything, but I am looking for something different to play with. I have been looking at the 6.5 grendel and the 6.8 SPC.
Thoughts? Opinions?
Thanks
Trey

[blikseme300]

Try the 300blk. Easy to make up cases and works well on hogs.


Bliksem
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Moonie]

I have 2 uppers, one in 6.8 SPC, great caliber for hunting, easily more powerful than 7.62x39. I also have a 300BO upper, that one is just fun to shoot.

I highly recommend both, the 6.8 SPC is easier on bolts than the 6.5 Grendel but both have very similar performance characteristics, the only real difference shows up with some of the higher BC jacketed condom wrapped things that some people seem to prefer.

But you can use the same bolt for both the 7.62x39 as the 6.5. Just as you can use the 5.56/.223 bolt with the 300BO.

[x101airborne]

Did I just find HEAVEN?
http://www.beyond556.com/bboard/showthread.php?6564-35ARem

[x101airborne]

Awww..... I just realized that 95+% of big bore AR's are in 50 beowulf.
Man, I thought I was cool.....

[scb]

Wilson's 7.62 x 40

[M-Tecs]

458 socom

[DanWalker]

did i just find heaven?
http://www.beyond556.com/bboard/showthread.php?6564-35arem

very cool!!!

[Hamish]

You'd be on steady ground with the 300 AAC Blackout/Whisper, with moulds aplenty.

The 7TCU with the Lee 287130R will run in a standard mag.

The 6x45 (6mm TCU) is enjoyed by one member here.

The 6x40 and the 7x40 were developed to address the problem of not being able to use any projectiles other than light for caliber by shortening the TCU. Standard TCU dies can be used by cutting to length.

One CB members wife owns a 8x40(something)(Not sure if its 40 or 45, ran across it some time ago and can't find it now). Anyone remember who? At one time there was a conversation about it fairly duplicating the Kurz. Personally, I could get a little excited about an AR hog blaster spitting the 8mm Maximum boolit.

Grendel, Beowulf, etc., all readily available., no wait time, plenty of info available.

Blammer seems to be having a good time with the .25-223, you may have noticed.

The entire BR family of cartridges will work in the AR-15 platform, single stacked.

There is also the 50XS, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l554t4C5apM

Other than that, I don't know what to tell you, other than to express my sympathies for the predicament for having to choose. So very sorry, blah,blah,blah,,,,,,

[BD]

.450 Bushmaster all the way. Sammi cartridge. Straight wall case that is commercially available from Hornady and Remington and or can be made from any of the .284 family of cases, case life equal to .45 acp, (last forever, or until you decide they're too short to use). Boolits/bullets available from 200 grains to 400 grains in virtually any style you'd like. Uses any powder suitable for magnum handguns, WC820, WC297, WC1680, H110, N110, 296, Lil'gun. Slow twist suitable for cast boolits, BDC scopes available from Nikon and Leupold to match factory ammo and managable recoil. Factory magazines are available, and most any straight wall .223 mag will work with a change of follower. The polymer Sig mags work great right off the shelf.

I think a 300 grain .452 cast RNFP boolit at 2,000 fps will do anything that needs doing on this planet inside of 250 yards. In my rifle The 250 grain FTX at 2,200 fps will do it it as well, and stay moa out to 300 yards.

Unless of course you're after a challenge?
BD

[madsenshooter]

Hamish mentioned my 6x45. Nice guy that he is, he sent me a whopping big bunch of MX2-243 Eagan bullets that I'll just have to shoot up! I've been thinking of getting my coyote rifle up and going again, just finished a few test casts with a small group buy 6mm bullet Swede made up for a very few of us, his MX3-245-EX. I see he still has a few molds available. These might be a bit light for hogs, naked, in the high tin alloy I'm using the solid weighs only 68.6gr and the hollowpoint 1.3gr less. The project looks to be fun, should be able to get minute of coyote noggin accuracy at 2300-2400fps.

[x101airborne]

madsenshooter,
That looks like one heck of a yote slayer. Too cool.

One of these is definately going to be a 450 bushmaster. I have looked into it and dreamt on it, and I think this will be a wonderful companion to my 50 beowulfs.
But I cant get that short 35 rem out of my mind. I mean it just keeps creeping up on me! I will be thinking about being back in college hanging out at a buddies pond on the weekend with a bunch of girls and the radio going, one of them removes their top and all there is is 35 rem shell bases and 35 REM in bold letters. I guess I got it bad!

[x101airborne]

Ok, I got it.
357 herrett rimless!

[Hamish]

This?

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=121&t=499977

AR-15, without bolt modification
.17 Remington
.17/223
.20 Tactical
.20 Practical
.20 Vartag
.204 Ruger
.221 Fireball
.222 Remington
.222 Remington Magnum
.223 Remington (5.56x45mm)
.223 Remington Ackley Improved
6x45mm
6mm TCU
6x47mm
6mm Whisper
.25x45mm
6.5mm Whisper
7mm Whisper
7mm TCU
.300 Whisper (.300/221, .300 Fireball)
.338 Whisper

AR-15, with bolt modification
223 WSSM
5.45x39mm (.21 Genghis)
243 WSSM
6mm PPC
6mm WOA
6mm BR Remington
6mm Hagar
6.5mm PPC
6.5 WSSM
6.5 WOA
6.5mm Grendel
25 WSSM
6.8x43mm SPC
.30 Herrett Rimless Tactical (6.8x43mm case trimmed to 41mm and necked up to .308; the 6.8mm version of the .300 Whisper)
7.62x25
7.62x39mm
.30 RAR
300 OSSM
.357 Auto
.35 Gremlin (necked up 6.5 Grendel to 358)
.358 WSSM (various names, but all are some form of a WSSM necked up to 35 caliber, some are shortened to make them big game legal in Indiana)
.458 SOCOM
.50 Action Express
.50 Beowulf

AR-15 using a simple blowback operation
.17 HMR
.22 LR
.22 WMR
9x19mm
9x21
9x23
30 Carbine
357 Sig
40S&W
400 Cor-Bon
41 Action Express
10mm Auto
45 GAP
45ACP
45 Super
45 Win Mag

Found this list poking around.

[DanWalker]

I'm having visions of that round loaded with a 190 grain ranchdog boolit. DANG! Just what I need, ANOTHER project!

[xacex]

Don't feel bad. I have a 50 Beowulf, and I still think that the 35ARem is a neat project. Uses x39 brass too.

[x101airborne]

I know.... I know..... I am startin a lot of fires that I cant put out. LOL.
I have been brewing a lot over different calibers and such, and for cast only, I am really set on .358 or bigger. The 450 bushmaster definately fills the bill, but the 357 herrett rimless SHORE has my kackles up. Yall know what I mean.....

I have been doing a little researching and cant find a drawing (in a very short time) of how the WSSM fits in an AR-15 action. Can someone help me? If the 35 WSSM is a great cast cartrige, I would be interested in seeing it.

[DanWalker]

http://www.bfgcartridges.com/358Gremlin.html
Looks like just the ticket...

[Fishman]

Doesn't the 6.5 Grendel use the same bolthead as the 50 beowolf? Cases formed from the 7.62 x 39 if needed. No, I don't have one so I'm just dreaming too. It appears to be the long distance champ in delivered energy in the AR platform.

[x101airborne]

Doesn't the 6.5 Grendel use the same bolthead as the 50 beowolf? Cases formed from the 7.62 x 39 if needed. No, I don't have one so I'm just dreaming too. It appears to be the long distance champ in delivered energy in the AR platform.

Yuup. It is THE answer in long range shooting from an AR-15 standard reciever. But Oh My God, have you looked at the price of ammo? Last I looked, it was higher than 50 beowulf! And that stuff makes my credit card sweat.

And where the 6.8 SPC is listed as a short to medium range round, the 6.5 Grendel is a medium to long range precision round.
And that is not just my opinion, that came from Alexander Arms.

[xacex]

35ARem and the 358 Gremlin seem to be almost the same concept. Both are 357-8, and use the 7.62x39 case. 6.5 Grendel also can be formed with 7.62x39 cases. I don't know that the Grendel is all that great as a cast cartridge. It is designed as a high BC, high velocity round. The 300 ossm, or even better the 358 wssm are something to consider, but those are also high velocity rounds. The Beowulf is under 2000fps, and should be a great cast gun. The Blackout's I have been playing with have also been fun in cast. I intend on building a 6.5 Grendel/.264 LBC for long range paper punching, and game out to 400, but I still think it may be a poor candidate for cast. It would be cheap enough to hydoform x39 brass to afford playing with. Getting Beo brass sucks! I have about 230 pieces now, but have no idea when it will be available again. Good thing it lasts a long time. I just am anal about picking it up of the ground after every magazine I throw downrange.

[crabo]

I am trying to decide what to build on my lower, already having a 223 and a 9mm AR. I was discussing this with my friend CarlV and he summed it up pretty well,

Some thoughts.

1. 223 has worst lethality and worst wind-bucking at all distances.
2. 6.5 Grendel has best lethality and best wind-bucking at 300+ yds.
3. 6.5 Grendel & 6.8 SPC are pretty much equivalent under 300 yds.
4. 300 AAC is probably plenty lethal inside 300 yds (essentially a 30-30 with better bullets).
Seems to me that it comes down to whether you value the extra 15% more ammo per magazine (300 AAC)
or the extra 50% more energy (6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC).
5. Wilson's 7.62x40 WT splits the difference between the 300 AAC and the 6.8 SPC.
Higher velocity but also based on 223 case.
6. 300 AAC gives you best selection of bullets (including fun stuff like tracer and AP).

I can't decide between the 6.5 and the 300.

[35remington]

If we're talking hogs, for trajectory and energy reasons 300 yards is really, really, really pushing it for the 300 Blackout. Said by a 300 Blackout owner. Since the 30-30 is considered a 200 yard cartridge, and the 300 and 30-30 finally equal each other at 200 with the 300 having to catch up from well behind at the shorter ranges due solely to the 30-30 having blunter less aerodynamic bullets, the 300 ought to be considered a 200 yard cartridge too.

Especially on hogs. Trajectory isn't there, nor is energy, at 300. But 300 yard hog shooting doesn't happen much anyway, so for reasonable range shots on typical hogs IMO the Blackout would be better than the 5.56, a cheap switch needing only a barrel or upper and you're in business. Use the same magazines.

For simple and straightforward with enough energy on most pigs for most shots I endorse the Blackout. Just don't get caught up in the 300 yard claims for hunting. Ain't there IMO. This is really no handicap anyway. If 300 yards shots really are in the offing I'd get something with more power. Especially for hogs.

[x101airborne]

Lemme tell you guys, I have two 50 beo's. They are AWESOME cast boolit rounds. They have the lethality of a howitzer! I have never recovered a boolit and have never lost a hit animal. Two inches at 100 yards is good enough for a 50 caliber hollow point 500 grain boolit. But, having to find my brass in the grass is a pain. I need to order one of those brass catchers that velcros or snaps onto the reciever.

So I think that one reciever will be a 450 bushmaster, one will be a 300 whisper, and one will either be the 357 herrett rimless or the 35 ARem.

That is just my thoughts till I come up with some money. LOL.

[rockrat]

I have the 6.5G on the way, have the 300blk, 7.62x39,9mm,450B,458Socom, 50AE and 50 Beo uppers. I would go with either the 300blk or the 450B. I have gotten 7/8" 100yd groups with the 450b and there are lots of 45 moulds out there. The 300blk is another favorite, shooting cast. I really like the x39 round, but only shoot J-words in it and good mags have been hard to come by.
You don't mind losing a few 300blk brass when shooting, but fanatic about finding the brass on most of the others. 300blk is cheaper to shoot than most of the others.

[DCM]

This?

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=121&t=499977

AR-15, without bolt modification
.17 Remington
.17/223
.20 Tactical
.20 Practical
.20 Vartag
.204 Ruger
.221 Fireball
.222 Remington
.222 Remington Magnum
.223 Remington (5.56x45mm)
.223 Remington Ackley Improved
6x45mm
6mm TCU
6x47mm
6mm Whisper
.25x45mm
6.5mm Whisper
7mm Whisper
7mm TCU
.300 Whisper (.300/221, .300 Fireball)
.338 Whisper

AR-15, with bolt modification
223 WSSM
5.45x39mm (.21 Genghis)
243 WSSM
6mm PPC
6mm WOA
6mm BR Remington
6mm Hagar
6.5mm PPC
6.5 WSSM
6.5 WOA
6.5mm Grendel
25 WSSM
6.8x43mm SPC
.30 Herrett Rimless Tactical (6.8x43mm case trimmed to 41mm and necked up to .308; the 6.8mm version of the .300 Whisper)
7.62x25
7.62x39mm
.30 RAR
300 OSSM
.357 Auto
.35 Gremlin (necked up 6.5 Grendel to 358)
.358 WSSM (various names, but all are some form of a WSSM necked up to 35 caliber, some are shortened to make them big game legal in Indiana)
.458 SOCOM
.50 Action Express
.50 Beowulf

AR-15 using a simple blowback operation
.17 HMR
.22 LR
.22 WMR
9x19mm
9x21
9x23
30 Carbine
357 Sig
40S&W
400 Cor-Bon
41 Action Express
10mm Auto
45 GAP
45ACP
45 Super
45 Win Mag

Found this list poking around.

Man you beat me to it! Too many choices not enough $cratch!

[BoolitSchuuter]

I'm gettin ready to pull the trigger on a 450 Bushmaster upper (pun intended). :bigsmyl2:

[x101airborne]

I'm gettin ready to pull the trigger on a 450 Bushmaster upper (pun intended). :bigsmyl2:

Man, tell me about it!!!
I am itchin so bad, I cant stand it. But I gotta keep in mind kids, Christmas, so on. I coud easily bust 700.00 on an upper right now. But there has to be focus, grasshopper, focus.
But I do have the itch real bad. LOL

[Ed in North Texas]

I love my 6.8, but I have the itch for a .458 SOCOM upper really bad. It might be the reason the .458 isn't more popular is the limited availability of the rifles/uppers. Rock River is producing rifles and uppers, with 16" barrels (CAR and Mid-length configs). Standard lower with 5.56 standard mags (even the followers). BFG produces 16.5" barrels, but are out of stock. Teppo Jutsu production went to SBR for custom work while he's overseas, and he recommends Rock River also. Seems like I read that BFG (?) might be producing an Encore barrel, basing the case on the .50 Alaskan rimmed case.

Obviously lots of mould options for a .458, and bullets as well as boolits are available.
Ed

[nhrifle]

Guys, just sayin.......
55566

[x101airborne]

Guys, just sayin.......
55566

Caliber Man, Caliber!!??????

[nhrifle]

Thats the 50 BMG. Bohica Arms MK IV. I keep it around for when the squirrels get testy.

[Tracy]

I would love to find an AR barrel in .222 Remington. 20" or maybe 24". 1:14" or perhaps even 1:16" twist; I have a 1:16" Hornet that will stabilize my 55 grain 225415 boolits as long as I load to at least 2000 fps. And that is the boolit I would want to shoot in it.

I know some .222 AR barrels have been made for civvy sales in Central/South American countries that don't allow civilian ownership of military cartridges.

[GabbyM]

I would love to find an AR barrel in .222 Remington. 20" or maybe 24". 1:14" or perhaps even 1:16" twist; I have a 1:16" Hornet that will stabilize my 55 grain 225415 boolits as long as I load to at least 2000 fps. And that is the boolit I would want to shoot in it.

I know some .222 AR barrels have been made for civvy sales in Central/South American countries that don't allow civilian ownership of military cartridges.

Neck the 222 up to 6mm to make the 6mm-222 with a 1:14” twit barrel and you have a nice boolit shooter. noebulletmolds.com has a nice 75 grain flat nose 6mm boolit to work in 14 twist barrels.

[ebner glocken]

I looked at one of those bohica uppers used awhile back. The price was right. If something wasn't right about it the name didn't say "excellent customer service" to me so I passed. BTW the 300BO seems like one of the better non 5.56 to me. In the LR308 receiver the 338 federal would make an interesting choice.

Ebner

[nhrifle]

The name Bohica was just the owner poking fun. He is someone with a great sense of humor. The actual upper is very well made, lots of very well machined steel and very heavy. I have been working as a machinist making military and aerospace parts for quite a few years and I can tell you that they are finely crafted. It shoots anything I put into it and is quite accurate.

The Blackout has become one of my absolute favorite calibers. I have done lots of experimentation with it and like any load development, not all has gone smoothly, but mistakes were easily corrected and the cartridge is very forgiving. Pretty much any slow pistol or fast rifle powder will work. Reloader 7 and H332 work great for the heavier bullets. H110 is nice all around, as is XMP5744. Lilgun is showing some promise. Havn't gotten to try any AA1680 yet but it's on the list. Superb cast boolit shooter, which also makes it very cheap to shoot. Try it with a Slidefire stock and it's guaranteed to bring lots of smiles.

[Blammer]

I have a 25 WSSM upper from Olympic Arms and a 25-223 AR.

25WSSM requires an entire new upper and a special mag. 120gr projectiles at 2750fps
25-223, only required a barrel, 100gr projectile at 2500fps or so.

PM me if you have any particular questions on either.

[Boneguru]

I have the 6.8 and the .458 Socom,found this site to get info on making my own 458 boolits (will work in my 45-70 Encore Katadhin 18" BBL as well). if the 458 had come out first I might not have played with the 6.8 but I truly do not regret it a all!