Early Lee Loader question

[TNsailorman]

I have heard that the early Lee Loader's (made in the 1960's) full length sized the cases. Does anyone know whether this is true or not? I don't have one left that was made that early to check and see. I am going to try to find one in 30-30 if it is true. Thanks, james

[Maven]

James, The ca. 1960's .243Win. Lee Loader I have only sizes the case neck. It also produces very little run-out and seriously accurate ammunition...with jacketed bullets.

[UNIQUEDOT]

The loaders that full length sized are the Lee unitized loaders. They pop up on ebay from time to time and generally go for 30 to 40 bucks in 30-30 caliber.

[1hole]

Does anyone know whether this is true or not?

Yes, it is not true.

[Skipper]

The Lee Loaders did full-length size some calibers like 45 acp and 30 carbine, probably some other pistol calibers as well. I know that it took 3 men and a boy to pound a lubed 30 carbine into the sizing die!

[rintinglen]

The classic lee loader neck sized only. I learned to reload with one in 30-30 back ca. 1970. Was real proud of my DYI ammo. Lead to a tale of ignorance onmy part later though. The Lee loader instructions had you processing each case through all the steps, ie. sizing, depriming, re-priming, powder charging, bullet sesting and crimping before you went onto the next one.

I went into the Marines and while stationed at Pendleton, found an old Pacific C=press at a yard sale for 5 bucks. I had a brand new .357 to feed, so I got a set of RCBS dies at the PX, bought primers, powder, and bullets. It took me hours to complete a box of ammo, screwing and un-screwing dies for each individual round until I finally re-read my Speer manual and discovered it was much faster to size ALL of my brass, then decap and Flare and prime, then charge 50 cases and then seat them. Greatly reduced the time to reload, not changing dies 150 times a box.

[TNsailorman]

Thanks for the replies and information guys. It sounded too good to be true, but I hoped anyway. I started out reloading after getting out of service in 62 with a Lee Loader in 30-06 but foolishly trade it in the late 60's when I got my first C-H H style press. My memory is not what it used to be , along with a few other things. james

[UNIQUEDOT]

Here is what the Lee loaders that full length size look like. You can search for 30 30 unitized loader or sometimes people will list the unitized loaders without boxes as just Lee loaders, but you can look at the photo of this one to note the different appearance of the die. It may help in your search for one in 30-30. This one is in .22-250 and the asking price is a bit steep! I'm really surprised that more folks here are not familiar with them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEE-UNITIZED-HAND-LOADER-DIE-SET-22-250-/280833422028

[Four Fingers of Death]

I started out reloading with a Lee Loader for my brand new 94 Winchester. I was as dumb as dog shoot! Dad wasn't really into tools, but did all of the maintenance of the house and a lot of the car maintenance with me offsiding him, I used the only hammer he had, a carpenter's claw hammer of a good weight (Grandfather was a licensed carpenter/plumber / drainer/ gasfitter and all of Dad's tools came from his father in law, so it was a full sized professional claw hammer. I would tap as gently as I could, but would still set off 1-2 primers every ten cases, haha! No matter how much you prepared for it, the bang still frightened the tripe out of you.

I have a few sets that I have picked up over the years, don't use them much, more interest's sake than anything else. I didn't realise until I saw the picture, but I am sure one set is the unitised loader set. I will have to have a look.

If you want to FLS without a press, the Aussie company, Simplex make a series of 'vice dies.' As the name suggests, you lube the case, start it in the die and run the case in using the vice. They supply a steel rod to knock the case out. Simple, but effective. They are pretty cheap here and the guys I deal with ship o/s, but the shipping will be a few bucks. I feel that you would be better off getting one of those cheap Lee presses and a RGB die set. They have a hand press which takes full sized dies.

[ROGER4314]

I still have my 60's era Lee Loaders in 38/357 and .45 acp. They neck size only. A full length resizing would require a sledge hammer to run the cases in and out of the die.

Flash

[vacek]

The Mequon Unitized Loader made by one of the Lee's (There was some family split or something) back in the 70's or 80's did indeed full length resize. I have several. I haven't seen the Mequon in 30-30, but haven't looked for them either. It didn't take a sledge hammer either. You lube and then using a vise, arbor press or a mallet to do the resizing. Ideal/Lyman made the dies as well and I do have some in 30-30. Actually I have about every caliber in this set-up. My bug out kit for my Glock 17 has one of the Ideal resizing dies along with a Lee Set for the finish. Works very nice. These Ideal dies did recommend a block of wood and a steel hammer on some of the more difficult cartridges.

Final the best "hand" full length resizing dies were made by Wilson. These are awesome. In Phil Sharpe's book he talks about using one in 8mm to resize 30-06 to the 8mm caliber.

Regardless, you lube them then resize them. This was the primary way to full-length resize back in the day before Pacific came out with their press which really changed the game.

[vacek]

I am finally finished with business travel this week. As time permits I will take some pics of the ideal sizing die as well as sizing a 30-30 with it. I will also show pics of the Mequon (Lee) Unitized and the Wilson resizing die.

[jcwit]

The Lee Loaders did full-length size some calibers like 45 acp and 30 carbine, probably some other pistol calibers as well. I know that it took 3 men and a boy to pound a lubed 30 carbine into the sizing die!

HaHa, I must be a He!! of a guy then.

[Four Fingers of Death]

You know they are going to be hard to size when the manafacturer puts a warning on the box. The fls dies used in the past HERE IN AUSTRALIA (Update) which are still available, are designed to be used in a vice. Pretty easy then to size, then to eject the case with the rod supplied, either with a mallet or by being put back into the vice.

With the easy availability of Lee dies and cheap presses, including the Lee hand press, there is no real need apart from nostalgia to subject yourself to such punishment nowadays, lol.

[TNsailorman]

yeah, it is more work and I don't really "need" one, I just was drifting down memory lane a little. Seems to be a habit with old men. I have several Lee sets for other calibers. Neck sizing isn't the way to go with a Marlin 336 in 30-30. I started out with Lee Loaders in the early 60's and I still find a spot in my reloading gear for them. Guess I'll just go put a John Wayne or Joel McCrea oak burner on tonight. james

[Bored1]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Improved-Lee-Loader-30-30-Winchester-Complete-with-Instructions-Rifle-Reloading-/261141189248?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccd3a5280

is this what your looking for? the parts look like the earlier posted unitized loader

[TNsailorman]

Bored1, yes, that's it. But the lady won't accept anything but paypal and I don't support anti-gun companies. james

[I'll Make Mine]

I don't support anti-gun companies.

Referring to eBay? As far as I've been able to tell, their policies aren't anti-gun, they're just trying to ensure they're not accessories to NFA violations and similar "crimes of ignorance". They don't permit sale of the serialized part of a firearm (frame, receiver, etc.) or of complete "non-firearm" items like cap and ball revolvers, because of either Federal transfer requirements or moderately widespread state or postal restrictions that eBay sellers are fond of ignoring; banning those items is just CYA. They do permit sales of most parts, the same stuff that's unrestricted to ship and requires no paperwork to transfer.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Yep, they aren't in control of the stuff moving around and there are a lot of flakes out there who would not hesitate to violate all sorts of laws shipping guns and ammo around to anybody that paid for their hot/illegal/homemade whatever gun and as such are in a tricky position legally, which is a shame. PayPal and EBay make it easy otherwise. I don't use EBay much, but PayPal is really convienient for an Aussie who buys stuff off Americans (and others).

Previously, I had to go to the Post Office and buy an International Money Order ($8+) and an Air Mail envelope (around $3 from memory). Then I had to wait a week or two until it made it's way to the States. This added $11+ to the cost of things before we started. With PayPal, you just add the 3% and the goods are usually shipped in a day or so.

Possibly on things costing more than $300 or so, the IMO might be an option, but the convienience and quick turn around are really good.

There was a guy in the States selling spare parts for pistols on EBay. There was a picture of the stripped pistol, a Ruger Mk1, 22LR auto pistol. My mate has about three of them and was about to buy another couple for his twin daughters who were getting interested in shooting. The price was pretty cheap and he decided to give it a go, thinking that it would just get confiscated. It arrived sometime later and was a complete pistol in bits. My mate was worried that he now had an unlicensed pistol in his hands. I told him to take it to the club armourer to store temporarily (like an FFL, licensed to trade in guns and ammo for club members) and contact the Police Firearms Registry, stating that he found it in his recently deceased Father in Law's property. The cops were glad to get it on the books and all was fine. If my friend had of been a crook however and went out massacring innocents with it, EBay would have had more trouble than is bearable, so while it is unfortunate, you can see why they backed away from it. Shady characters could use it for gun running to all sorts of other shady characters.

My long deceased Father in Law had nothing against guns and had never fired a gun in his life, but he sure had a few tucked away in his stuff which I 'found' later on and got registered.

[TNsailorman]

paypal may make it easy for some to purchase items as long as paypal agrees with what is being bought. There are always and always will be individuals that don't follow the laws on the books. paypal or ebay will not change that. They simply do as most governments do and classify everyone as a crook and proceed on that premise. Meanwhile, the rights and priveleges of the vast majority of law abiding people are loosing more and more of their personal freedoms. We are explaining and compromising our freedoms down the drain for the sake of convenience or commerce. It is my money and I will decide where and on what I spend it, no government or corporation need apply. Others are free to make their own decisions. We decided that back in the 1770's and 1780's. james

[Multigunner]

For those who have the old style Lee Loader and don't like to tap with a mallet to seat the primer, I found a method that works well.

I braced the table of my small Black&Decker drill press with a chunk of 4x4 , then tightened down a piece of steel tubing in the chuck.
Placing the primer seating cup on a slabl of steel laid on the table I just pushed the casehead down around the primer by using the advancement handles as a lever. Primers seated smoothly and evenly.

I have one of the Lee side lever type loading outfits, plus a set of Herter's dies for the .303, but I prefer the older Lee Loader.

The Lyman Nutcracker has them all beat.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have used the Lee dies in a vice. I have a big ol' Aussie Dawn vice with a quick release trigger underneath. Pop the die, etc between the jaws, engage the trigger, close up vice, wind handle until case sized, wind off, insert with eject pin, wind on, easy peasy.

[TNsailorman]

I tried the vise method and it worked. My uncle also had a Lyman die that worked in a vice and it worked well too. Once in a great while you see one of those old Lyman's on a gunshow table but usually the owner has decided that it is "collectible" and has a price on it that even more than a full set of Redding dies. I have about 10 sets of Lee Loaders right now but most of them were made after the new Lee company took over. I am retired and I have more time to do things and I don't mind doing them the hard way but I don't want to pay 3 times the price just to work harder. Getting old and crotchity I guess. james

[UNIQUEDOT]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Improved-Lee...item3ccd3a5280

is this what your looking for? the parts look like the earlier posted unitized loader

This is an improved loader...not a unitized loader. Improved just means it has all that extra stuff with it, but it does not full length size. It has to have the unitized die in the kit to full length size.

[mdi]

Well, IME, the Lee Loaders for straight sided cases full length size (.38/.357, .44 Spec/Mag., 45 ACP. etc.) and neck sizes only on bottleneck cartridges. That holds true to the 6 sets I own, and mebbe different on others...

I even have a set with the Herter's name on it.

[EDG]

I had one of the rarest of the rare Mequon unitized tools in .375 H&H. That tool was set up to FL resize the long tapered case.

[Shooter]

I had one of the rarest of the rare Mequon unitized tools in .375 H&H. That tool was set up to FL resize the long tapered case.

Rarest of the rare?
Gee, I still use mine. Is this another collectors item I have to be careful with?

[vacek]

Last night I loaded about 40 .223 cartridges (Speer 218 Bee with 6.5 grains of Trail Boss for a light load) using the Unitized Mequon (Lee) Loader. As the cases were already sized last year I didn't try the full length die but will sometime tonight. Anyway, the quality of this set is at a much higher level than the new Lee Loaders although I like them as well. Very nice straight line feeding of the bullets and the crimper tool worked very well. When I get a chance I am going to full length size some cases with the Unitized Die and then some with the Wilson Die to see which I like the best.

[EDG]

I would recommend that you sell it. It will bring enough to buy you are pile of new equipment or components.

[vacek]

EDG,

I have around 10 presses and more new equipment and components that I know what do do with. The "handloading" stuff (lots of Lee Loaders, Lyman, and Wilson) are my "for grins and giggles". I still like to sit down every once in awhile and use them.... you know Zen and the Art of Handloading.;-)

[EDG]

Vacek , you have my sympathy. I have the same affliction. I have enough loading "impediments" to equip 6 or 7 people. However I still like the simplest methods like the Wilson tools.
However sometimes someone else gets to own my zen when they make a significant contribution to a new rifle fund he he .

[brstevns]

My 7x57 set from the mid 60's neck sized only?

[Shooter]

My 7x57 set from the mid 60's neck sized only?

Yes. That's all you need if you have one 7x57.

[Dave Bulla]

So far Uniquedot is the fella giving you correct information. Go back and read his posts.

If you'd rather not, here's the low down on Lee dies as I know it.

There are 4 basic kits. There is the regular "classic" kit, the "improved" version, the "unitized" version and the "zero error" target version.

Standard kits neck size only regardless of caliber, straight sided, handgun, bottleneck, Lee brand, Mequon brand or whatever. There are several that as Lee says, "require extra force" to use. The 44 magnum is one that comes to mind and probably the 30 carbine as I often hear of them being a bit of a bugger also. That doesn't mean they full length resize though.

Next is the "improved" version. At a glance, the improved and unitized kits look identical and they were made by both Lee and Mequon. The difference between this kit and the classic is the inclusion of a hand primer and a separate expander/crimper tool. I have one of these in 30-30 and it loads fantastic ammo. The separate crimper for some reason gives me far better crimps than the standard die does.

The "unitized" version looks just like the improved but it is in fact the ONLY version that full length sizes the brass. I have one of these in 32-20 and even with the small case of that caliber it is fairly hard to pound the case in flush. If you try to do it without case lube, you'd probably never make it. FYI, they do make the unitized version in 30-30. I just bid on one on ebay a few weeks ago but didn't get it.

Lastly is the "zero error" target version. This one is in a totally different box that is about 50% bigger than the regular kit. It is similar to the improved and unitized versions but does not have the crimper/expander. It also includes a micrometer adjustable sizing/seating die instead of the standard type, a case neck reamer, case length trimmer, deburr/champher tool and primer pocket cleaner. This is the "primo" kit. As I understand it, the world record bench record was held for a fair number of years by a shooter who reloaded his ammo on one of these kits. I've got them in 7mm mag, 30-06 and 270.

To me, the interesting item in the target kits is the case neck reamer. It works backwards from a normal neck trimmer. Instead of taking metal off of the outside, it does it from the inside. The die is made to very close tolerances and if you think about it, when the case is driven into the die, everything should be perfectly aligned and any part of the neck that is thicker must be forced inward by the die. The reamer (closer to a borer actually) cuts a perfect neck size hole from the inside of the fully supported case neck. I love mine and get great results.

[TNsailorman]

yeah, I have used one of the 30-06 Target Loaders for years, sometimes in tandum with a C-H 205 press. I've had more than a few discussions/arguments with people over the years about which was the better method of necking uniforming--outside reaming or inside reaming. The Lee Target Loader in my estimation is the ideal way of uniforming the neck. A local gunsmith who specialized in log range, high dollar custom rifles guaranteed his accuracy on the rifles he built. We had a few discussions with a nationally know gunwriter/international hunter about the best methods. He was in favor of outside neck turning and the gunsmith and I always argued for the inside method, especially if it envolved the Lee system. The gunmith so believed in this method that after Lee discontinued their Target Loader, he started including a special hand reamer set up that consisted of a neck sizer die with a specially ground reamer adapted to fit a handheld die threader T handle. He provided these with all his rifles for a small charge. He's dead now but he did beautiful work. Long story short, I love the Target Loader and wish Lee would bring it back. Nobody made a set up that would touch it for accuracy. just my $.02, james

[sthwestvictoria]

This seems to be an early Australian variation on the Lee Loader idea:

58149
I don't know anything about it myself, had never heard of such a thing. The link is here:
http://www.shooting.com.au/forum/index.php?/topic/32332-a-moment-of-weakness/

[TNsailorman]

Very interesting SWV, I know the aussies are no slouches when it comes to guns and gun gear. I shoot your powder all the time. Thanks for the picture. james