Load for my CZ-52

[milsurpaddict]

Hello

I have a question about loading for my CZ-52.

In the paperwork that came with my Lee Dies the powder used is either v-3N37 5.1 grains for 93 grain jacketed boolet or v-N340 4.7 grains for 93 grain jacketed boolet.

My Lee Modern Reloading Second Edition manual does not list a load for the CZ-52 Tokarov. The closest load I guess would be for the 30 Luger and it recommends either WIN 231 at 3.7 Grains for a 93 grain boolet jacketed or HP38 at 3.4 grains for 93 grain lead boolet.

My boolet I am using is 100 grain lead boolet from Lee mold MOLD DC 311-100-2R and PPU once fired brass and tulammo primers.

My question is what is the difference between v-3N37, v-N340 and HP38. If there is a difference what load could I used with the boolit I am using.

Thanks

[Bullshop]

I believe the 7.62 Tok and 30 Luger are the same except for the pressure they are loaded to. The Tok works at a higher pressure. Anything shown for the 30 luger will work in the Tok it just wont throw the brass as far. The best accuracy I ever got with a CZ 52 was with the Lyman boolit for the 32/20 the 115gn fn.
I can try to find the data if you wish. The load was hands down the accuracy leader in the several CZ 52s I had.

[madsenshooter]

3N37 is approximately the same burn rate as Accurate's #7 or Hodgdon's Longshot. N340 is about the same as Alliant's Herco, IMR's 4756, and Ramshot's Silhouette. You're using a slightly heavier bullet, but cast bullets produce less pressure than jacketed bullets. I'd start by reducing the charge 1.5gr and watch for pressure signs. Work up in .5gr increments toward the levels given by Lee for the 3N37 and N340. You could also search for other data that uses more obtainable US powders. For instance, there's some here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-11240.html or here: http://www.makarov.com/tokloaddata.html

Looks like Lee's data was for the Tokarev, not for the stronger 52.

[milsurpaddict]

So let me ask you all then can you somehow substitute one type of powder for another. I am somewhat new to reloading but I am not sure how loads are created since there are so many powders, and in my load manual there may be, six different powders but if I do not have the specific powder do I have to go out and buy it or can you use what you have and use some kind of conversion formula.

[Bullshop]

Tough question with no absolute answer. The answer is sometimes yes and sometimes no.
Some powders with different labels from different suppliers are actualy the same powders, at least in my opinion.
So in that case yes.
Some powders are very close in burn rate and burn charictoristics so can subsistute with very slight adjustments to the charge.
It is helpfull to have a burn rate chart. They are available on line and most new loading manuals will include one.
The chart will give a good idea of what is close to what but is not always a straight across the board swap chart for powder substitution. Some powders even though they show side by side on the chart will act way differently even changing burn rate position when used in a certain way.
Its a good idea to become familier with the powder first in its advertised use before experimenting.
Most advanced loaders (not aged just experianced) do this often myself included use powders for certain applications where there is no published data for that powder in that application. Its something that come by feel from lots of experiance burning lots of powder. If your not one of those its likely better for you to stick to the books. No offence ment or trying to build myself up either but just letting you know how it is.

[chutesnreloads]

Milsurpaddict,please STOP.Don't even think about substituting one powder for another unless you know absolutely for sure they are the same powders under a different label or are VERY close to the same....and only then start at the lowest charge weight you can find and work up slowly.

[milsurpaddict]

I am not going to substitute powders. I just wanted to know if I have to buy the powder in the manual that is listed in the loads and I can see that I will be doing that for some time. What is funny is that the same load of 3.4 grains of HP38 is used for the Makarov load with 95 grain cast boolet, my 7.62 X 25 load is 3.4 grains of HP38 with a 100 Grain cast boolet, and 3.4 grains of HP38 for my 357 Magnum with a 158 Grain cast boolet.

[chutesnreloads]

Sounds like the only load data you have available is the Lee data?I'd reccomend getting at least one other load manual.There should be several powders out there that you can find data for other than the two you mentioned that will do you fine service in that cartridge.

[Bullshop]

I went and checked my load data.
My most accurate load for the CZ model 52 7.62x25 Tok is with the Lyman 115gn fnpb boolit @ .314" over 4.7gn Unique.
I went up to 5gn but the best grouping I got was the 4.7gn load. I have no recorded data on COAL. I think the mag will determin that.
This is nowhere near a max load for these guns. They are a stout gun!

[madsenshooter]

The CZ52 is a roller locked pistol and can handle near magnum velocities and pressures. The Tokarov and Makorov cannot.

[Dan Cash]

I am not going to substitute powders. I just wanted to know if I have to buy the powder in the manual that is listed in the loads and I can see that I will be doing that for some time. What is funny is that the same load of 3.4 grains ........... Regarding substitution: The loads you are showing are used in cartridge cases of vastly different volume and bullet weight. The propellant differently in each cartridge. Until you have the experience with different powders in different applications, it is best that you get the specific propellant listed in published data. After 50 years of loading, I still do just that unless I am absolutely certain about what I am doing.

You can also look at .30 Mauser or 7.63x25 Mauser (same cartridge, different designation) data as a starting point. The Mauser and the Tokarev cartridge case are the same but the Mauser operates at a bit lower pressure. Do not confuse the Mauser with the Luger; they are not the same. For what it is worth, I find a 105 grain cast bullet with 5.5 grain Unique serves well in both Mauser and CZ52 pistols.

[Outpost75]

For a full charge load which cycles the CZ52 and ppSh43 reliably, use the RCBS 32-90CM sized .309" with 5.5 grains of Bullseye for 1450 fps. Reduce to 5 grains for 1300 fps in the Mauser M96 Broomhandle.